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Was Dr. Steven Greer paid to lie...?

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posted on May, 14 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Hi Nexus,

I see that you are very passionate about this subject. Excellent! Have you started buying Greer's latest videos?

I would like to address some of the things that you have stated.


Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Feel free to disagree with his opinions, but do everyone the courtesy of understanding where he is coming from.


I agree with almost all of his early disclosure work "opinions"

However, in regards to his more recent directions, I said in my post:

"I am not saying these points of are invalid or unimportant, but I believe very, very strongly that they pale in significance when compared to the challenge of getting our world governments, our public servants, to disclose, fully, what they know about apparent E.T. technologies, visitations and alien civilisations."

I address these points together


As far as I can tell from watching Greer for over 10 years, he is just a citizen, using his personal resources and knowledge to campaign for public disclosure. ... SNIP ...

But I fail to see why he owes you anything. ... SNIP ... He can damn well do what he wants.


Of course Greer doesn't owe me anything personally.

However, Greer decided to become the publics champion for disclosure. He has asked the public for money and resources to help him and his team and he has been given what he asked for. He is also using taxpayers money.

The position he has taken, quite willingly, has exactly the same responsibility as any public servant. When our politicians start doing a bad job, should we not try to bring correct what they are doing or bring them to account?

Greer is using our money and our resources. If he takes our money and does not do what he said he would do with that money then ... well we know what that means, don't we.

Greer owes his public everything ... and I am one of his public.



rather than wishing one person out there trying to make a difference, would couch his terminology in a way so as to cater to people who would rather watch American Idol anyway.


The people who would rather watch American Idol are exactly the type of people who need to be made aware of what is going on.

Greer is preaching to the converted when he talks about disclosure to fellow UFO enthusiasts. Preaching to the convert does not change anything.

For disclosure to work it needs the publics support. The general public. The American Idol public.

These public are more likely to believe and support if they are given the facts in the way that they trust and give credibility.

Most of the "American Idol" public will dismiss "mystical" and other intangible ideas out of hand.

If this CRITICAL support start dismissing disclosure because it becomes associated with "mysticism" then those who seek to oppose disclosure gain more leverage.

I have no issue with Greer's personal journey, in fact I wish him success and happiness in this endeavour but he is obligated to keep this totally separate from his now very, very public responsibility; a responsibility that he chose to accept.

If he cannot or will not do this then he needs to separate himself from the cause.

When leaders loose their way, it is up to those that are following to take the reigns and finish the journey.




posted on May, 14 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Horza
Hi Nexus,

I see that you are very passionate about this subject. Excellent! Have you started buying Greer's latest videos?


Yes I am curious to know too if anyone else has ordered the CSETI DVDs that I found, as I keep running into problems in getting my copies


To the member who said "Greer can handle Disclosure however he wants", I agree with that right up until he starts begging the public to fund his projects (with the Orion Project).

If he has been going around meeting with and briefing world leaders privately and all that, that's all great - but the instant he turns to the public for funding, his credibility becomes an immediate and serious issue. He really needs to show all the evidence that people are demanding to see if he wants the Orion Project to succeed......



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by Horza

snip

However, Greer decided to become the publics champion for disclosure. He has asked the public for money and resources to help him and his team and he has been given what he asked for. He is also using taxpayers money.

The position he has taken, quite willingly, has exactly the same responsibility as any public servant. When our politicians start doing a bad job, should we not try to bring correct what they are doing or bring them to account?

Greer is using our money and our resources. If he takes our money and does not do what he said he would do with that money then ... well we know what that means, don't we.

Greer owes his public everything ... and I am one of his public.



So this means that you have donated money to The Disclosure Project, or to him personally?

If you don't like what he is saying, or how he is saying it - then as a contributing supporter you have a right to tell him that. If he doesn't do what you want him to do, in the manner you want - then you stop sending him money and support.

I see so many people stand up to try to change things, only to be dragged down by a zillion supporters who all have different ideas on the way things should be done etc. I wish more of the complainers would stand up and be counted some time, so they know how it feels.

peace

Duncan



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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Hi Nexus,

Firstly I want to make clear that disclosure is, as Dr Greer has said, one of the most important issue in the world today.

Can you please answer these questions:

Do you think that Greer has no obligation or responsibility with the resources that have been given to him by the public?

What do you think about other organisations that use tax payers money?

Do they have an obligation to the tax payer?

I think, in any reasonable situation, the answer is yes.

This is a reasonable situation.

Greer takes the public's money so he is accountable for what it is spent on.

Just because he has decided to try an make a difference doesn't excuse him from executive accountability. Isn't that exactly what we criticise the current administration for? Their lack of executive accountability?

Do you agree with me when I say that we need the strong support of our public behind us to help make disclosure a reality?

Do you agree that the majority of the our public shun away or ridicule things associated with intangible and mystical ideas?

Do you agree that we the goal of disclosure is to get those that are hiding the truth to reveal the truth? Do you agree that that is the main objective of disclosure?

Do you agree that, in regards to disclosure, any agenda that works against disclosure that objective is of secondary or even nil importance.

Do you agree that those who are are struggling and striving for disclosure should separate any agenda of theirs that may work against disclosure, however small that chance is?

This is politics, plain and simple.

We are playing their game, so we have to play better than they do.

What N3V3RM1ND said originally was spot on:



It seemed to me, at least, that Dr. Greer presented himself and addressed the audience as a genuine person. He spoke under a tone which suggested that he UNDERSTOOD the need to present his information in a logical and rational manner, based on facts and evidence. He knew that if he ever came across as a "Loony", people wouldn't take him or his project for disclosure seriously.


This direction that Dr Greer seems to be going in puts disclosure in jeopardy of failure.

Do you think this is acceptable?



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by Horza
Hi Nexus,

Firstly I want to make clear that disclosure is, as Dr Greer has said, one of the most important issue in the world today.

Can you please answer these questions:

...

This direction that Dr Greer seems to be going in puts disclosure in jeopardy of failure.

Do you think this is acceptable?





Well, you didn't answer my question about whether YOU send/sent money to Greer or not, so I am not going to answer you other time-wasting questions either.

Look, I understand your point of view - I just know what it is like from the other side, so naturally I sympathise when someone tries to do his/her best - and falls. I do not believe Greer has put Disclosure in jeopardy, I think he has advanced when it will come.

I applaud that he has gone further and warned that those who keep the 'secret' want to put the 'evil alien' spin on it when they choose when and how - to disclose the UFO/ET 'situation'.

I mean how much more can an ordinary civilian do? He organised the biggest ever press conference at the National Press Club in Washington; he has meetings with all sorts of powerbrokers and their lackeys - sent umpteen press releases to all the media - do you want me to go on?

What did he learn from all this? Probably ...
1) That disclosure ain't gonna happen until those who keep such secrets choose to do so.
2) That an uncomfortable number of people that one would assume are 'in the loop' on the UFO situation - are NOT in the loop - ie the Rockefellers, the Clintons, some former CIA heads etc etc.
3) That we have already learned and reverse-engineered lots of 'their' technology.
4) That the public won't wake up until the mainstream media TELL them what is happening, over and over, on every channel, in the comedy hours, in the news discussions etc etc.

I don't blame him for going mystical. What his organisation and its members feel about it - I don't know either. Maybe they authorised it even? But surely, he is only accountable, on all levels, to the organisation that receives funds for his activities.

And finally, you and I both know that IF Greer DID get the 'big inside scoop', the 'green light from TPTB, mainstream media celebrity status from being the 'movement's spokesman' - that it would mean he sold out.

Poor guy is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

Peace

Duncan



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by bovarcher
OK I can kind of agree with you about Simone up to a point, though 'paparazzi' is a bit strong.


Not when he essentially tells you the subject is "entertainment". It not only marginalizes the issue, it's insulting.


Originally posted by bovarcher
What exactly are you doing to promote disclosure? Sorry to appear confrontational (which it's not meant to be) but you do come over as very critical of other researchers who for the most part are generally dedicated, hardworking and committed to this issue and definitely (i.e. Bassett) not in it for the money or for any kind of personal gain.


No personal gain? LOL...ok. I'm not touching that one. I'm only critical of a select few. Those who claim to have the answers. It's too early for even theories...much less answers. We simply don't know enough. Faulty data retrieval and no peer reviewed work doesn't equate to any answers...maybe I'm overly critical, but I don't believe so. You should be too if you want any progress in this field of study.

What am I doing to promote disclosure? Who said I even think disclosure is a possibility? Personally I think disclosure is a joke, because I don't see any evidence that the Govt. knows the answer per se. They certainly appear to have better data then we do, and more of it...doesn't mean they have the answer...although they certainly appear to try and give that impression. As I've said before, thats a source of power for them...then to say that they simply don't know much.

You can answer me this: If the govt discloses, you're going to actually believe it? From a govt that has allegedly lied and aggressively defended that lie for this long? Personally I find that kinda silly.

The bottom line for me is that this enigma has bypassed the official channels and goes straight for the individual. Disclosure has been going on a long time as far as I'm concerned.


Originally posted by bovarcher
So where can we review your work please?


Here is as good as anywhere I suppose. Go look up O'Hare or any number of cases presented on this board. I'm also on the Paracast regularly as well as Culture of Contact, and have been on more then a few radio shows regarding different cases.

I just spoke at the 2008 UFO Congress and will be speaking at the Culture of Contact Conference in September in NYC. I've written papers on the Gulf Breeze sightings and worked at Sightings and Parascope on AOL. I organized and facilitated the first online support group for experiencers and facilitated the first support group in MD (CE4CSG) I'm also providing data to the History Channel on a specific case.

Please realize you asked, and I'm not tooting my own horn here. I've been around the field a very long time.

Most of the work over the last 20 years has been private cases which have not been published (mostly because there wasn't any "online" then) but I'm currently trying to finish what will be a self-published book, and some of what I have will be included along with my own experiences, which have been detailed on ATS before.

I'm currently researching a particular scientific angle and will be publishing an online paper regarding the implications of that upon the UFO issue (which will be posted here if Mark and Bill wish it. It will also be on my site www.thesecondeclipse.com

In short, I've collected data for a very long time and worked several cases but, I don't make the blanket statements some of those who haven't been around half as long as I have, are making. I choose to keep my mouth shut until there's something of value to contribute (which is very hard to get at, thats the the nature of the subject) - and treat the subject seriously and critically, not jump to conclusions like the ETH and alien breeding programs. To put it in blunt terms, I've never been out to be a public figure, I research this because it's effected my life in profound ways.

I'm harsh on some because I know how this UFO celebrity dance works...and it needs to be treated FAR more seriously then it has been. I'm now quite sick of listening to people claiming to have the answers who have none, and due to the importance of the issue I refuse to hold my tongue for one more minute. I never said I didnt respect Jacobs, Hopkins, Mack...but I don't agree with them or their methods. I'm perfectly entitled to that.

There's way too much nonsense going on in regard to the UFO alien problem, and it's time to get serious and change the tone of the conversation. Between me and several others, we're working our best to see that happen.

I'm away til the weekend, so ya'll have a good week.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by nexusmagazine
 


Hi nexus,

Sorry, I thought I had answered your question. Yes, I did contribute to Dr Greer. Actually, in would be more correct to say that I had contributed to the cause of disclosure, not to Dr Greer personally.

I too understand your point of view and I understand your respect and admiration for Dr Greer. What he has done in the past is a fantastic thing.

My questions where asked to help me in understanding your point of view.

Yes, I do tend to waffle but in review I think that every one of those questions was relevant to our debate.

I wanted to gauge if you agreed that if we expect or set standards then we must expect those standards to be met by everyone ... I should of just asked you that ...

We will have to disagree on Dr Greer's current course. I believe that it is damaging the the disclosure cause.

It frustrates me greatly that he will change his direction at a time when it seems that what disclosure needs is to reinforce it's position with strength and unity.

I hope that what he is trying to do yields results and makes all of us eat their words.

Nice speaking with you nexus



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Yes I am curious to know too if anyone else has ordered the CSETI DVDs that I found, as I keep running into problems in getting my copies



I am interested in this as well.

What is the general opinion of the quality and quantity of these DVD's?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Horza
 


As far as I know, I'm the only one so far who has ordered them.

But now I'm told that they never received my money order!! GRRR!!!


Horza, if you and maybe a handful of others would be willing to order the CSETI DVDs as well, that would be very helpful


As it seems I won't be able to report on them as quickly as I had planned..........



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Hi Jeff

First of all thanks for the link to your site, and your email. I never visited before but will check it out regularly from now on.




....Who said I even think disclosure is a possibility? Personally I think disclosure is a joke, because I don't see any evidence that the Govt. knows the answer per se. They certainly appear to have better data then we do, and more of it...doesn't mean they have the answer...although they certainly appear to try and give that impression. As I've said before, thats a source of power for them...then to say that they simply don't know much.


You might be right. This has occurred to me too, but I just don't know.


You can answer me this: If the govt discloses, you're going to actually believe it? From a govt that has allegedly lied and aggressively defended that lie for this long?


Depends on what is disclosed, how, by whom, when, in what way and with what supporting evidence, and where this then leads. I have to say that on Day One I may be rather skeptical of motives.


The bottom line for me is that this enigma has bypassed the official channels and goes straight for the individual. Disclosure has been going on a long time as far as I'm concerned...


Yes, agreed. But we all know the term 'disclosure' as used by Greer, PRG etc. does not refer to this direct interaction, but to the Governments of the world going public and admitting there is an ET phenomenon, it is real and they only understand some aspects of it.




...I just spoke at the 2008 UFO Congress and will be speaking at the Culture of Contact Conference in September in NYC. I've written papers on....

Please realize you asked, and I'm not tooting my own horn here. I've been around the field a very long time...


Yes, thanks. Got your website now.


I'm harsh on some because I know how this UFO celebrity dance works...and it needs to be treated FAR more seriously then it has been. I'm now quite sick of listening to people claiming to have the answers who have none, and due to the importance of the issue I refuse to hold my tongue for one more minute. I never said I didnt respect Jacobs, Hopkins, Mack...but I don't agree with them or their methods. I'm perfectly entitled to that.


Understood, accepted. And er...yes you do come over as harsh on some people, though I would be among the first to agree there are too many charlatans and deluded fantasists in this field, and a few I suspect of deliberately spreading disinformation. I have a long list...


I'm away til the weekend, so ya'll have a good week.


Yes, see ya.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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Having seen Greer speak up close and personal and knowing what I know about him I would say that he is a pathological liar. I doubt he can help it. That's as much cup-half-full as I can give the guy.

Paid to lie? Yes. By those who buy his junk and by those who pay him to speak.

Ask him how he's had 7 melanomas removed with zero scarring.

Ask him why he's not released the footage of the beautiful alien baby with a 4-boned cranium he claims to have.

Ask him how Clinton advisers refer to him as Dr. Greer while he refers to them by their first names.

Ask him how it came to be that he was on a chummy speaking basis with aliens in his youth but now he has to shine lasers & flashlights at the sky to get them to blink back.

Ask him for full financial disclosure before you give him your tax rebate toward the invention of a free energy device or any money for first-class plane fare.

Seriously, how is he even worth this discussion?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by bovarcher
And er...yes you do come over as harsh on some people


You're right. I guess in my 40's I've got far less patience then in my 20's. I guess its because I've been so effected by the phenomena...it just becomes insulting. I know I shouldn't let it get to me in that fashion, but it just does.

Really I respect and follow a lot of researchers doing good work. There's plenty of them too.



[edit on 15-5-2008 by jritzmann]



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
Ask him how it came to be that he was on a chummy speaking basis with aliens in his youth but now he has to shine lasers & flashlights at the sky to get them to blink back.

Ask him for full financial disclosure before you give him your tax rebate toward the invention of a free energy device or any money for first-class plane fare.

Seriously, how is he even worth this discussion?


Yes you have a point, he's done a lot of dumb things to blow his credibility. We all know this.

Still, we've also finally found the DVDs where he supposedly shows the footage of ships landing and whatnot
(at ufocongressstore.com)

In the spirit of Denying Ignorance, don't you think these DVDs should be checked out?

Since I've run into nothing but problems in getting mine, won't even two or three people step up and volunteer to check them out?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Yes you have a point, he's done a lot of dumb things to blow his credibility. We all know this.

Still, we've also finally found the DVDs where he supposedly shows the footage of ships landing and whatnot
(at ufocongressstore.com)

In the spirit of Denying Ignorance, don't you think these DVDs should be checked out?


No. He hasn't blown his credibility, he never had any to begin with. It just took some time for his lies to catch up with him.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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Right thats why he's back at Los Alamos doing some research for his private based corperation, what the hell did I just say?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni
 


What a terrible attitude.

Here we finally see him offering the CSETI video footage (albeit on DVD), the video footage we've all been demanding to see for YEARS.............



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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Do you honestly think you will find anything credible in that footage? Or just more questions?

The man is a liar and I don't want to be an apologist for liars. That seems to be the fashionable thing of late. "But...but Meier has some good photos, he just faked the later stuff..." "Maybe Adamski did meet aliens in the desert but then faked the footage..." "Hey! We know Greer's a complete fraud...but...but we have to justify having believed in him in the first place, so...let's give him the benefit of the doubt on this one."

Call me cranky but I think the path of least resistance on this one is that if you ever believed in Greer, you got suckered. It's okay to have been suckered. It's not your fault the first time, ya know? We all get suckered in this field somewhere along the way. It's when you don't admit it and decide, like the battered enabler, that THIS time it's real, where you have a problem.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Jeremy_Vaeni]



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
The man is a liar and I don't want to be an apologist for liars. That seems to be the fashionable thing of late. "But...but Meier has some good photos, he just faked the later stuff..." "Maybe Adamski did meet aliens in the desert but then faked the footage..." "Hey! We know Greer's a complete fraud...but...but we have to justify having believed in him in the first place, so...let's give him the benefit of the doubt on this one."


I don't know; the way I see it, to demand to see the footage for YEARS, and then NOT want to check it out when we finally find it, that is ignorant.

Yes I understand there's a $20 price tag involved, which is certainly annoying.

All I'm asking for is a handful of people, so that I'm not the only one. As I keep running into problems in getting mine - sending out money orders and them not receiving them, etc etc.

We at ATS need to be aware of the full level of evidence that Greer has available for the public - anything less is ignorance..........



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
The man is a liar and I don't want to be an apologist for liars. That seems to be the fashionable thing of late. "But...but Meier has some good photos, he just faked the later stuff..." "Maybe Adamski did meet aliens in the desert but then faked the footage..." "Hey! We know Greer's a complete fraud...but...but we have to justify having believed in him in the first place, so...let's give him the benefit of the doubt on this one."


I don't know; the way I see it, to demand to see the footage for YEARS, and then NOT want to check it out when we finally find it, that is ignorant.

Yes I understand there's a $20 price tag involved, which is certainly annoying.

All I'm asking for is a handful of people, so that I'm not the only one. As I keep running into problems in getting mine - sending out money orders and them not receiving them, etc etc.

We at ATS need to be aware of the full level of evidence that Greer has available for the public - anything less is ignorance..........


Ah. I do see your point. Thankfully I wasn't one of those clamoring for anything. In fact I really had no idea who Greer was, outside of the occasional TV appearance, until I saw him speak last year at the X-Conference. And then it was like...so incredibly obvious he's lying that I didn't know why he'd made it as far as he had.

If you wait long enough it'll probably make its way to google video or youtube (if it's not there already).



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
If you wait long enough it'll probably make its way to google video or youtube (if it's not there already).


But that's just it, it actually seems to be sort of the opposite. He seems to be kind of keeping it low - he doesn't even have links to it at cseti.org, or disclosureproject.org, where he sells all his other stuff.

What is the big secret with this footage, why keep it under wraps for so long...? And when he finally releases it, it shows up incredibly quietly at ufocongressstore.com, without even one link at disclosureproject.org........?

You are right though, I think it WILL show up on Youtube......



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