I'm curious as to the relationship between religion and science. Often times I see supporters of each acting as if the other is in opposition to them.

Here is what i'm interested in...

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
This includes anything YOU consider your religion. Also, if you Agnostic that means you are undescided as to any one religion. Athiest, please specify if you are Athiest due to lack of evidence for gods. (Some athiest firmly believe in no gods, some just do not believe in god because there is no evidence for them.)

2)What are your views of science?
Is it good for humanity? Bad? Neutral? Just an general idea of how you view science as it relates to your life and the rest of the world.

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
In your opinion how do these two things fit together?

I'll get the ball rolling with my own answers...

1)I'm a scientific logical athiest. I do not believe in any gods due to lack of a reason/proof to. I do not discount the possibility that there is a god nor try to discredit the religious.

2)I think science is neutral, just a tool of humanity like a hammer or math. What people use it for varries as widley as people do. I think it has many benefits and some downfalls. If nothing else though it has allowed us to advance to the point where we can protect ourselves from the hazard of the universe yet also given us the option to destroy ourselves in one large bang.

3)While people like to draw lines in the sand between the two, i know many religious scientist. However the two way of thinking are drasticaly different. One group guides thier life and thought based on faith in the unknown and the other guides knowledge by only taking into account the known. At best theories need to be functional to be held true and kept alive. I think if a person can sperate themselves into a part that deal only in fact and part that is only spiritual they can be both. I'd say the middle ground are those that believe god made the universe and now man is learning to understand it.

What do you think?

Both science and religion have failed our world, I keep my own beliefs regarding spirituality and the world. Science will lead man to destruction, religion will continue to pointlessly divide the people of this planet.

An interesting question, that should lead to a good thread of discussion....

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?

I have my own beliefs, based on the idea of a universal consciousness, and thought begetting reality. I do not adhere to the tenets of any organized religion. While I do not believe in a conscious "creator" deity, I am a spiritual person.

2)What are your views of science?

Science is different things to different people. To some, it IS a religion of sorts. They don't get the answers to their questions elsewhere, and so will accept theories as facts. For others, it is simply a tool, to use in unravelling truth. For me, it is a tool, but limited in scope, as it often discounts that which is contrary to it's present day thinking, and many important discoveries, have been hampered throughout our history because of this discounting.....

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to each other?

Yes and No. For those who view science as a substitute religion, then yes, it is at odds. Likewise, science has already disproven many claims of various religious texts. However, there are many scientists who still cling to the idea of a creator....and since the truth may just be that there is a universal consciousness at work....the idea of a creator isn't all that different. The closer we get to understanding the nature of reality (mostly in the realm of physics), the more the line gets blurred between religion and science, and I for one, think thats a good thing, as you can't have one without the other imho... You have to have something (science) to back up your ideas....or you're just making # up as you go along....

1) I am an Evangelical Christian

2) I see science as a tool for observing the universe around us. Science cannot observe everything obviously because as humans we lack the ability to perceive everything such as eternity, the state of not being, the origin of matter, etc. In a nutshell, it seems obvious that there is a limit to what science has to say.

3) I think science and Christianity can go hand in hand. Science tells us all about the intricate complexity of creation and makes it painfully obvious that there is a design and reason for the way things are. I think it is very unscientific to claim that the functional, purpose-driven appearance of EVERYTHING is merely a coincidence.

I think this will be a nice discussion, although I think some people might be offended by what I'll say.

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
I'm a atheïst and I will no ever be religious. What I believe, I can test at anytime through experiments and measurements. That means I do not believe in God, universal consciousness or any other spiritual nonsense.
Real evidence of a higher power would probably convince me, but at the moment all the evidence is on the 'no gods'-side for me. But you just said you will never be religious? That's right, because when there is evidence, it's no longer religion. It has become science.
I find science more beautiful than the idea that a creator created the universe. The idea that a few simple allowed the formation of such complex processes, formations and beings is amazing an it's even more amazing that we can figure out those rules!

2)What are your views of science?
I would go as far as to say that science is the best thing that has happened to mankind. Without science we would still be hunting deers with clubs. Science is a tool to examine our environment objectively and rationally. We can draw accurate conclusions after research done by using the scientific method. This allows us to step away from the primitive dogma's of superstition and religion.

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
Science and religion are in oppositoin to eachother and someone can never truely be religious and scientific at the same time. This does not mean that science and religion can't coexist. As long as they don't interfere with eachother, there will not be any conflict.
They are, however, in opposition to eachother. Religion means in my opinon accepting a certain idea without evidence, because a certain book or person tells you it's true. This is in direct contradiction of the foundations of science. We want unambiguous proof, reproducable experiments and falsifiable theories. Science does not accept things as true.
I don't see how 'not needing evidence to accept something as true' and 'requiring unambiguous evidence before accepting something as true' can truely go together.

I was going to post til i read Gregory's. Took the words right out of my mouth, or off my fingers!!!

My husband and I disagree a lot on this topic. I feel as though there is a creator, but He didn't just say "poof there's adam" and "poof there's eve". I believe in evolution to a point and in a lot of the scientific theories that most "religious" people shun.

1) I am Christian, was raised in the Pentecostal Church.

2) I am for Science - however we all view it differently.

3) No they are not in opposition of eachother.

Thanks for playing !

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
I don't buy into religion. What I believe in is something that I call Neo-Absolution. Read my Rant/Rave if you are interested.

2)What are your views of science?
I believe in evolution at all costs and since we no longer seem to have the need to evolve physically, we need to involve intellectually. Science just seems to be the best path by which to do this. However the belief that ANY idea is carved in stone defeats the entire point of evolution. When one scientific theory is deposed, we must accept it and move on to the next.


3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
The problem with both religion and science is that people get stuck in traditions/old theories and believe them so blindly that their validity becomes beyond question. Religion more so, but it does happen quite often in science as well. Are they in opposition? Like everything else, it depends on where you are standing. Throughout history science has proved against the fixed ideas in various religions and so, in a sense, science is harmful to religion. Now is the opposite true; is religion harmful to science? I just don't see it in this day an age. In the dark ages when everyone was fearfull of upsetting a spitefull god by questioning things then yes, but not today.

One also needs to take into account that religion and spirituality are two completely different things. I see no problems in the interaction of spirituality and science as I believe someday a bridge could be built across the boundries of the two.

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
My own system of beliefs. Most come from NA Shamanism, some from Wicca/Witchcraft, and some from a few of the Eastern Philosophies. I am quite ecletic in my beliefs.

2)What are your views of science?
I would say science is neutral. I has done SOME good and SOME bad. Reliability needs worked on though. Carbon dating is just one area where we cannot trust anything on. I read a study that basically states "the more funding a scientist needs for their project, the older the item is that they found. If they find a 3000 year old bone but there is already a 5000 year old bone, they get little funding, so they must claim that "carbon dating" said the bone was at least 6000 years old". This is not science, but human emotion taking it's toll on scientific method.

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
Science and religion are not very closely related (in my mind). Religion and belief, and the object worshipped in that given religion or belief, cannot and will likely never be proven by science. Science, being as falible as it is, cannot be accurate enough to eliminate possibilities in the religious world. To add to that, most religious beliefs are based on faith rather than science, and therefore, cannot be measure in any scientific ways, as faith is immeasurable.

Before reading the rest of this thread, I shall answer:

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
Born again, non-denominational, Christian.

2)What are your views of science?
Love it love it love it! Science as a whole is good for humanity (after all, because of science (concept, not study) we know when we jump, we'll land!). The actual application of science is neutral. Science can't be good or bad, it's the uses of science that can be good and/or bad. Personally, any chance I get I'm studying something scientific (except biology. Never really got into biology. Don't know why, and I know I'm missing a lot )

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
I think I already answered this with my previous answers. Science and religion, if anything, only build the other up. So yes, someone truely religious can be scientifically minded. The whole idea behind religion, at least Christianity, is that God created the Universe. Science is mearly the study of what is already there. Science is studying what God put here, and the physical laws he made it follow.

I agree with all your answers. It's what I would have answered. Thank you for saving me time from having to snswer.

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
This includes anything YOU consider your religion. Also, if you Agnostic that means you are undescided as to any one religion. Athiest, please specify if you are Athiest due to lack of evidence for gods. (Some athiest firmly believe in no gods, some just do not believe in god because there is no evidence for them.)


I'm a firm athiest, with nihilist tendencies. Not very cheery at times, what with the lack of belief in anything but myself. Hey, no one ever said copign with reality would be easy...

2)What are your views of science?
Is it good for humanity? Bad? Neutral? Just an general idea of how you view science as it relates to your life and the rest of the world.

Science is liberation. It provides rational answers to questionsThe more knowledge you amass, the freeer you are. Science is humanity's salvation, not some book with age-old prophecies and promises.

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to each other? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
In your opinion how do these two things fit together?

Religion is ignorance. People hide behind it to cope with the extinction of self. Science provides sweet, horrible knowledge. It's a pick your poison sort of road- live in ignorance and hope that your God (which is meerely dog spelt backwards, as Persinger points out at every opportunity) both exists saves your soul for all eternity. Science is the acceptance of the probability that in all odds, God doesn't exist. You live, you die, then that's it. You're free in that knowledge, but it's horribly depressing. Take your pick.

DE

Religion has failed us in many ways, because of the corrupt liars that say you cannot get into the kingdom of heaven if you aren't going to show up for church every sunday and pull some money out of your pockets to give to them. There are many things the different religions do that make people turn away from faith.

However, that does not mean that there isn't a God.
God is the one who makes the rules, he has made the rules, and people have just discounted them because a) it's either too much work b) they prefer a materialistic life c) believe there is one and think that is enough to get you into the kingdom of heaven.
The Laws and Principles of Government, given by the Ruler of The Universe, via Moses, are what have maintained peace in the Universe for Eternity. If you want to be pardoned and released from this lunatic-asylum prison-planet, and from your human organic-computer prison-cell and go home, back out into the Universe, back to where you came from and live forever, with your real family and friends, then you have to learn those Laws and Principles here and PROVE that you can keep and live by them, here under all and extreme conditions and temptations, before you can be trusted and released. The Messiah said in Revelation chapter 2 verses 26, 28, "To him that overcomes and keeps MY works unto The End, ........ will I give the Morning Star."



As for science, it does it's good, but also does lot's of harm.
I personally would only use science for health, for computer usage, physics, and a few other things I cannot think of at the moment.
It has been used for many evil things, and I trust God, more then I trust science.
Science is not the way, it's the wrong way, and it only pulls people further away from the truth.

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
I am an pentecostal evangelical follower of Christ. I currently attend an Assemblies of God church, but if its pentecostal I'm pretty much game.

2)What are your views of science? Is it good for humanity? Bad? Neutral? Just an general idea of how you view science as it relates to your life and the rest of the world.
I pretty much agree with the origninal poster. Science is just another part of life and something which can be wielded for good or ill by humankind. Because we are fallible and have pretty much used every technological advancement for evil at one time or another, I must admit to being rather technophobic and guarded against certain applications of science (Oh God don't start me about robots!).

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
In your opinion how do these two things fit together?
Of course they work together. They've pretty much gotta. Thing is, from what I've experienced, people in the "science only" camp associate 'science' with 'naturalism.' That is, they exclude the possibility for the supernatural and spiritual from the get-go. Its frustrating... anyway, yeah I definitely think the two go hand-in-hand. Also lets note that we're all religious in some way -- we all live by a degree of faith. i.e., even scientists have faith that certain scientific theories are accurate postulations on reality.

1. I suppose I could be considered an Agnostic. I have ideas, but I'm not prideful enough to say that I know for certain. I pretty much think that nobody on this planet knows for sure anymore about God than I do. I have no respect for organized religion at all. If there actually is a conscious mentality that you could call God, I think the greatest sin of all (if there is such a thing as sin) would be to claim to speak in God's name and to claim to know God's plan. Religion is a tool to control people.

2. Science is just the study of cause and effect. Using this we learn about ourselves and our surroundings. We are all scientists. Every day, all day. Personally Science is why I do believe there is something deeper going on. There is an elegance and symmetry to how things work that you just don't get if you don't use science as a tool to study it. Everywhere you look, order is created out of chaos. This is true on both a sub-atomic and a cosmic scale. Science convinced me that there is some kind of purpose or plan, not these false religions.

3. Yes, they are in opposition because Religious Dogma cannot stand in the face of Scientific Discoveries. Science is based in observable, repeatable results. Religion is not. Religion has always seen Science as the enemy, which makes me think that they know they don't really know and are scared to be proven wrong. More human pride. Isn't that a sin or something?

Those who can shrug off the programing and look at the universe with the tools of science can see the hand of something, even if only in the existing design.



"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect intended us to forgo their use" - Galileo Galilei

[Edited on 29-3-2004 by Ambient Sound]

I'm an agnostic-atheist.

I think science is merely the search for truth, however, there have been scientists who have done things a bit too far, such as cloning humans and designer babies -- such things I deem morally wrong.

For the most part I think that relihion and science oppose each other.

What do you think?

1. I believe religion is for those who need a reason, or lack the discipline to "do the right thing" or more to the point to act with moral's and with conviction. Therefore I pick the "one true religion all others are originally patterned after" "THE GOLDEN RULE"

"DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE OTHERS DO UNTO YOU"

Einstein proved that matter cannot be "created nor destroyed" only converted either TO energy or FROM energy. We as people have a piece of "energy" in us. In the form of heat, kinetics, sounds we produce, and electrical impulses (the sum of our souls for lack of any better word)

There is only so much enery and matter in this universe (the sum beinging THE ONE

WE ARE A PART OF THIS. When we die our energy leaves our shell to become one with the rest. Simple!
Simple, uncorrupted, and true to the universe.

2.Science deals in truths and proofs

1)What religion (or lack thereof) are you?
I call myself a Catholic or a Christian, take your pick. I struggle with the idea of calling myself something, because I don't hands down believe everything the Church says I should. I believe there is a God. I believe in Jesus' divinity; his death for our sins and his ressurection (also that he was married and had children, but that's neither here nor there) I believe in a lot of the things the Bible and Christianity has to offer, but sometimes I find it's hard.

People point out discrepencies in the Bible every chance they get; sometimes to ask valid questions, but many times just to try to disprove my religion. That pisses me off, and shows more ignorance than someone who is so-called ignorant for believing in a higher power.

In the end, I would consider myself spiritual. I'm not gonna say "religious" because I don't go to Church every sunday, I don't read the Bible all the time, I eat meat on Fridays during Lent, etc. But I'm spiritual and religiously minded because I believe in God, Jesus, and I try to live by Jesus' teachings the best my human body can allow me.

2)What are your views of science?
I think science is a helpful but dangerous tool. The knowledge that science has provided us have allowed humanity to prosper and advance throughout history, and that is a great thing. I'm wary of the dangers that technology/science pose for our future though. Many scientific discoveries have led to good and bad outcomes, but that's just the way it is. Science is a very delicate and dangerous tool to weild; if used correctly it brings us great wealths of prosperous knowledge, but if used for the wrong purpose it could be the downfall of humanity.

3)Do you think science and religion are in opposition to eachother? Can someone be truely religious and scientificly minded at the same time?
I belive you can't truly be religious and scientific at the same time, but there is room for a lot of cooperation. To be truly scientific (as is one of my roommates, we get into many discussions over science/religion ideas) is to need tangible proof of something's existence to believe. This cannot be had in religion.

Believing in God requires a leap of faith that truly scientifically minded people can not grasp or understand. Those of us who are religious or spiritual are taking a great leap of faith to believe in something we can not touch with our fingers or see with our eyes; but we know God exists because we can see him in our mind, and feel him in our emotions.

That being said, let me explain my views on God/science. I believe in evolution. The way I see it, God created the means for evolution to occur, and everything since has been his plan. This idea is the same in other areas for me as well. Scientifically-minded people will say that God can't exist because we have proved clouds are created by water molecules, fire has been proven to be merely energy, we have night and day because of the Earth's rotation, etc. Well I tell them that God created the means behind each of these phenomena. Figuring out how and why something occurs is different than believing that a higher power allowed such things to occur.

Basically, my ideas on science and religion can be summed up like this. When I look at a sunset, I may know that the colors are created through some complex interaction between light, air, water, what have you (I don't really know the exact reason) but I refuse to believe that the beautiful scene I am witnessing was created by coincidence and happenstance. When I look at something as beautiful as a sunset, I see God's hand at work; and no scientific jargon will ever change that.

[Edited on 29-3-2004 by Faisca]