I just got yelled at because...

Originally posted by COOL HAND
If you don't like the government here, then it is time to move out of your parents house and live under a system of government that you will support.

Well, COOL HAND, as far as I know he would have to move to a different country to live under another system of government.

"It is mrmulders right and his moral obligation to his fellow Americans to question what the government does. Denouncing people with views opposing them the way you and many others on this board and elsewhere have done is infuriatingly ignorant."

I disagree, I am merely expressing my freedom of speech and opinion. Just as he is.

So you disagree that Americans have the right to question their government? I may somehow have misinterpereted your response to mrmulder's original post, but as I understand you think if he doesn't like the government, he should leave. This reminds me of the typical "patriotic" response to criticism of Bush - "If you don't like it here, then get the f*ck out". This sort of attitude infuriates me. I believe that if the government, who are employed and payed by the people, do a bad job, they should leave, or change the way they operate. People should not have to change their way of life, or ask no questions, just because it suits those in power.

The current US government is obviously corrupt, as are almost all governments. Politicians are weak, and very few care first and foremost for the welfare of their people. They should be questioned and challenged.

If you didn't mean to say that mrmulder should leave the country (though you certainly did imply it), could you please explain what your post meant, COOL HAND? Where will he find an alternative form of government besides in another country?

And do you believe it is unpatriotic and wrong to question your government?

Right or wrong you will be looked down upon by many many people regargless of the topic...Its simply because people have a closed mind and even if you are just bringing something up for the sake of discussion most sheepeople would rather call you a moron or clueless or unpatriotic than to actually take a minute and examine all the facts that are availible....and that is what is sickining.

[Edited on 26-2-2004 by McGotti]

Well, COOL HAND, as far as I know he would have to move to a different country to live under another system of government.

The nice thing about the government in this country is that you can elect new officals if you do not agree with the current ones. You just have to get everyone else to vote with you.

So you disagree that Americans have the right to question their government? I may somehow have misinterpereted your response to mrmulder's original post, but as I understand you think if he doesn't like the government, he should leave. This reminds me of the typical "patriotic" response to criticism of Bush - "If you don't like it here, then get the f*ck out". This sort of attitude infuriates me. I believe that if the government, who are employed and payed by the people, do a bad job, they should leave, or change the way they operate. People should not have to change their way of life, or ask no questions, just because it suits those in power.

No, I disagreed with mrmulders statement.

The current US government is obviously corrupt, as are almost all governments. Politicians are weak, and very few care first and foremost for the welfare of their people. They should be questioned and challenged.

They are all of the time, why do you think Arnold is governor of CA right now?

If you didn't mean to say that mrmulder should leave the country (though you certainly did imply it), could you please explain what your post meant, COOL HAND? Where will he find an alternative form of government besides in another country?

All I meant was that he needed to go out and take an active role in the election process here. People's votes do count. The problem is that too many people think that they don't count. If we could harness them, we could make some real changes around here.

All I meant was that he needed to go out and take an active role in the election process here. People's votes do count. The problem is that too many people think that they don't count. If we could harness them, we could make some real changes around here

Thats a load of sh*t...you dont get somebody interested in voting by telling them that if they disagree the should simply leave the country..Thats the exact opposite

[Edited on 26-2-2004 by McGotti]

COOL HAND,

I do vote. Believe it or not I voted for Bush. I liked him. That is before we still can't find the WMD's in Iraq. I think Bush lied to us. As far this next election, there's no one I trust or like except maybe Dennis Kucinich but he won't win ayways. Those are my thoughts.

Look the reason I brought up this topic in the first place was just to see if anyone else got the same reaction I did when telling their friends of loved what they thought happened on 9/11.

[Edited on 26-2-2004 by mrmulder]

Cider, good to see you.

This form of argument has grown, everything from the music industry to the jam in my sandwich is met with 'if you don't like it leave'. It's astounding how many people don't see the irony in that argument;
it's become the ignorant de reguire answer of ignorance.


E.G:

My hamster cage is full of #.

Well then, why don't you go over to that other hamster cage?

Umm, because that's even more full of #?

Exactly, so be be thankful you don't live in a cage so full of #.

Umm... but what if I want to try and clean up my own cage?

Don't be a Commie, go and clean up someone else's # if you don't like what you got.

So if we wallow in our own #, we're free?

As long as it's our own # son, it's a damn sight better than those poor buggers in the other cage.










[Edited on 26-2-2004 by kegs]

Originally posted by mrmulder
I told my mom what I believe to be the truth about 9/11. I told her to open her eyes and that our government was responsible for what happened. She told me:

"I can't believe you. How dare you say that. You have no respect for your country."

I told her I sympathize for the victims but not for the government. I know I'm going get hammered for this one.

I have had similar reactions when I have told others of my beliefs. If people ask my opinions, I give them and if they don't like it, too bad. If I can get the truth to just one person, then it will be worth it.

If you all tell your parents what you think they are bound to say summat like "shame on you fro not........." its how parents think



Next time say nothing.

Originally posted by kegs
Cider, good to see you.

This form of argument has grown, everything from the music industry to the jam in my sandwich is met with 'if you don't like it leave'. It's astounding how many people don't see the irony in that argument;
it's become the ignorant de reguire answer of ignorance.

Very good to see you too kegs,

So true, when I get an answer like that I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The problem is that the hard of thinking have been led to believe that patriotism is about standing by your country right oir wrong, ie; supporting the government. A real patriot looks out for his countrymen and does what he can to keep them free from oppression. Presidents and flags seem to matter more to the masses in America than justice and liberty.

The other problem is most Amercian's minds have been conditioned by the events that have taken place so it's very hard to convince them of something other than what they believe in. Hmmm.... I wonder if an already conditioned mind is the same as mind control?

[Edited on 27-2-2004 by mrmulder]

So true, when I get an answer like that I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The problem is that the hard of thinking have been led to believe that patriotism is about standing by your country right oir wrong, ie; supporting the government. A real patriot looks out for his countrymen and does what he can to keep them free from oppression. Presidents and flags seem to matter more to the masses in America than justice and liberty.

How would you know that for sure?

How do I know what for sure?
This is merely what I have observed from threads on this board and in the media, and I may have been misled, that's why I only said it seems Americans value symbols above freedoms. I don't know if I'm right for sure.

How would you define patriotism?

My mom was angry when I told her Jesus was jusy a guy with a good PR.

Originally posted by mrmulder
The other problem is most Amercian's minds have been conditioned by the events that have taken place so it's very hard to convince them of something other than what they believe in. Hmmm.... I wonder if an already conditioned mind is the same as mind control?

[Edited on 27-2-2004 by mrmulder]

Conditioning by the media is more subtle than mind control, as ultimately it is your choice whether to watch TV or read tabloid newspapers, but yes, the media does have the power to alter the way people think, and skew their perspective of what is more important in their lives.