Are You Stockpiling Now? If so, what?, page 6
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reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 12:16 AM by Jasestrong2
My survival plan is broken down to 4 main areas. I like to keep it as simple as possible.

1. Water
2. Food
3. Defense
4. Shelter

Water is one of the most important things on my list. I have about 15 gallons of water containment for each person in my family, and I would like to get to 30 gallons per family member. I also have three 60 gallon rain barrels set up around my house. I have a stock of water purification tablets. I also have 20 gallons of plain unscented bleach. I also have two very big stock pots for boiling. And I have a couple of big containers of Gatorade to help with the taste.

Food, again KISS, keep it simple stupid. I like rice, pasta, dried beans, oatmeal, and grits. All can be bought cheap and in bulk and I store them in food grade 5 gallon cans with airtight screw on lids. If kept right they can be stored for a long time. Also dried rice, beans, and pasta store in a confined area, they don’t need a lot of space. Canned food go without saying, it is great because it is cooked and ready to eat. I have a lot of canned food; I don’t think you could ever have enough. But don’t go to Sam’s Club and buy the 5 pound can of hash. Also remember the staples, oil, salt, pepper, spices, sugar, and flour. Powerbars, protein bars, cans of slim fast, and some candy. I also have a garden year round and I can as much food as I can from the garden. With the garden make sure you have a stock of seeds. You can buy a year worth of seeds for $40. Also a good supply of vitamins wouldn’t hurt. I would love to have the freeze dried stuff but it is expensive. Under food I also have my medicine and medical supplies. Keep as much as you can, this stuff will be worth gold. Decide for yourself what you need. On top of all the medicine I have always had a good supply of diarrhea medicine; I have seen it kill when I have worked abroad.

Defense, I always have a number of firearms with a good supply of ammunition. I always have a good range of weapons from knives, compound bow, pistols, rifles and shotguns. Not only will these weapons save your life but they can provide food also. You need to decide what works for you. People tend to think of this the most when they think of survival, it is important and should be given careful consideration. Here is an example of what I might have. Pistols in 9mm, .38, .357, and .40 cal . These are common and abundant and can defend you and kill a deer if needed. Pistols are very portable and concealable I have both automatics and revolvers. Rifles in .223, .308, 30-30, and 30-06. Again very abundant and able to protect and feed you. My rifles range from assault rifles to bolt actions And last but not least a good old 12 gauge shotgun. The shotgun is a very diverse and effective weapon system a must. Ammo should be kept in airtight containers and also make sure when you buy ammo that it does not have a shelf life. New range clean ammo only lasts a year or so. Make sure you take the time to use your weapon effectively and train others in your family, remember more than likely your wife or significant other is your only back up, and make sure they have the skills to do the job. I think a lot of us take training for granted, I was a MP in the Army, a civilian law enforcement officer, and now a private investigator, I know I have the skills and training but my wife doesn’t. So I take the time to show her how to shoot and use all of our weapons effectively.

Shelter, your castle, without this you are a refugee and at the mercy of all who chose to prey on you. I live in a semi rural area near a lake. I feel better living in a rural area over an urban area, much easier to survive over an extended period of time. Take the time to beef up your house. I live in Florida and all my windows have ¾ plywood precut and painted with waterproof paint, all my windows have security film. The windows have secondary locks and there are pieces of furniture that can cover the window from inside. All doors have been reinforced and they have y poles that fit around the door knob and go to the floor. This makes it hard to kick down the door. I have a crank/solar powered radio. I have also bought a number of hand powered tools, drills, saws, files, axes, shovels, nail, screws, twine, rope, tarps, to name a few for repairs

Here are other things I keep: all my vehicles are 4x4, matches, blankets, candles, cloth, sewing kit, books, gas masks with filters, body armor, tools, gasoline with Stabil fuel additive, camping cooking gear, normal pots and pans will not stand up to an open fire, cooking grid/grill and some cinderblocks, tents, sleeping bags, lanterns, fire starters, toys and books for the kids, fishing gear, snares, animal traps, 100 mile an hour tape, 550cord/parachute cord, games, musical instruments. This is a partial list and remember use what will work for you.

Form strategic alliance with friends and family for support.

But remember in tough times limit your trust of your neighbors and those in your community. Most will not take such preparations and when they are hungry or thirsty they are coming after you if they know you have it. Make sure you also conceal your efforts.

I approach survival two ways. First I prepare for the worst. Second I still live life with hope that my kids will grow up in good times and raise their kids in even better times.

If anyone needs help making their own plan I would be glad to help. I will also tell you how to make a cheap and effective rain barrel just give me a shout. I built my rain barrels for $25.

Take care and be safe.

Jason


reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 06:56 AM by Jasestrong2
reply to post by zorgon


I use food grade barrels that were used to store Greek peppers and olives. They have never stored chemicals. Most of the barrels still have some pepers in them when i get them. These barrels can be bought at feed stores. People use them to store animal feed.

Jason


reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 09:54 AM by Blitzkreigen
reply to post by iamcamouflage


With very much DUE respect for the Texas Baptist Men... ( Angels of Mercy and Honorable Organization )

Good Filter, but only goes to 0.5 microns, with no charcoal for VOC's, or pesticides. No ionic attraction for Virus Carrying particles. Designed for 3rd world countries where they are drinking sewage daily, and think nothing of it. Or disaster flood zones with a temporary outage of "city" or municipal treated water.

I'm Baptist too, but the First Need Purifier is all that I will use, or have used for 20 years. Nothing even comes close to the quality WHEN you HAVE TO USE IT. ( except Reverse Osmosis if you have water pressure and dont mind wasting a minimum of 1/2 gallon for every gallon "filtered".)

BTW... Water purifiers must meet "9 log" requirements to be adequate... that means 99.9 % effective is ONE log, 99.99% is TWO log,

The First Need will do 99.999999999% effective or 9 log... FYI ( even rated against Viruses, and the ONLY purifier to be rated as such by the EPA/NSF)

Its like buying Gold... 99% pure is Laughable compared to 99.999% Pure.

Sounds good to 'most people' to say 99% effective. Then you have to ask 99% effective against WHAT PARTICLES? 99 % effective against all Dirt particles for example... is a bandanna, or my Tee shirt.

The DEVIL is in the Details, and the harmful particles and chemicals that you could be exposing your family to will easily go through 3 or 4 log "filters". 0.1 Microns Absolute is what you really really NEED.

If the manufacturer wont post the INDEPENDENT lab results of testing, or there is no EPA/ NSF approval as a PURIFIER, your buying a bill of goods... unless you already drink sewage water daily and you think nothing of it.

If you NEED a filter/ purifier you will NEED the best available.

FWIW... I have 23 Years + experience in Drinking Water Purification.

Recently, Bacteria have LEARNED to turn longways and fit through a 1 micron pore, even though they measure 4 microns across nominally.

Chemicals are much smaller. Viruses are so small you cant see them without a Scanning Electron Microscope.

Dont play with your water. Start out right and then go on to the food and sanitary supplies. You NEED to Drink every day, eat about every 3rd day,
and going 'BANG' is way down on the list.

I'm NOT affiliated with this company, but its here for you:

www.generalecology.com...
( First Need )

www.generalecology.com...
( BASE CAMP near bottom of page)

Same technology "Structured Matrix" for both units. Both have replacable cartridges.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen


reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 10:44 AM by LDragonFire
I just read the whole thread, and there are some really good ideas and suggestions.

While I agree that the priorities should be shelter, food/water, and weapons, if you think for one minute that when the shtf, that you will be able to gather your things that you have stockpiled load them into you car or truck or whatever and be out of town in 20 minutes, well your dreaming. Think of the Katrina and Rita evacuations or so called evacuations, the freeways were nothing more than parking lots, and if you think your fully loaded suv can make it out cross country, well good luck to you.

You need a plan to bug out and a place to bug out too.

1 A bugout bag you can grab and be out of the door within 5 minutes or less, but you should not have more than you can carry on foot, because this is most likely how you will be getting around.

2 If you have no property then a public storage locker where the rest of you equipment should be stored, in the direction you need to go.

3 If you have property where you plan to go, you can develop it now. Plant fruit and nut trees apples, peach, plum, blackberry persimmons, pecan, walnut, and any other fruits you can think of, grapes, strawberries plant them now and also have a large supply of seeds and don't forget spice seeds. You need a well or a spring for a fresh water source, solar powered pumps or hand pumps. Build a irrigation system now have it ready. Have at least a storage shed on your property, store bleach, laundry and dish detergent, hygiene supplies, you might want to bury your more valuable supplies around the property weapons ect.



I might add some more later


reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 11:31 AM by Uphill
reply to post by Uphill


Oops, my first posting here ran out of space. Here is the remainder of what I wanted to recommend:

(Fresh produce) mustard greens, burdock, cabbage, squashes.

Also preserved products are good, such as organic sauerkraut in glass or ceramic jars, preserved umeboshi plums (from Little Tokyo, or Erewhon Foods, or your local health food store in their section of refrigerated fermented foods).

Dried shiitake mushrooms are very handy to have around and now pretty widely available. Just be aware that a sign of quality is closed caps on the mushrooms; the spores are the medicinal part of these mushrooms, but the spores have already dropped out if the caps are completely open.

When cooking with fresh corn on the cob, collect the corn silk, dry it completely; use that as needed to make cornsilk tea; it lasts for months or longer if you store it in a glass jar away from direct light.

Fresh herbs we grow at home currently include rosemary, basil, marjoram, purple sage (great with otherwise bland summer squash), and shiso (both green and red) -- otherwise known as perilla. Seeds for all these can be obtained by mail order or online from Seeds of Change; here is that link:


www.seedsofchange.com...


References:

1. There are a number of "how to do it" books out there on kitchen-related topics. One of the older sources, with a continuing series of books now, is the Foxfire series on vintage homesteading arts and crafts. I often see them in used bookstores, otherwise here is the link on Amazon:


www.amazon.com...=sr_pg_2?ie=UTF8&rs=1000&keywords=Foxfire&rh=n%3A1000%2Ck%3AFoxfire&page=2


2. Also found in used bookstores is the Readers Digest "Back to Basics" book. Here is that link on Amazon:


www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209053788&sr=1-3


While at that page, scroll down the page a little and check out the "readers who bought this book also bought" list of related books.


Supplements: The only supplement we both take is Neptune Krill Oil, which is currently the highest known source of omega 3 fatty acids, uncontaminated with heavy metals. We decided to start taking that after reading Fat Chance -- surviving the cholesterol controversy and beyond, by Dennis Willmont. That book is only available by direct order from his website, which is:


www.willmountain.com...


Personal note: I have a masters degree in public health, and this book is the most authoritative source I have found so far on fats and oils in the human diet. While the author has an unconventional background, he does know science and human metabolism. After I read the book, I ordered 4 more copies so far for friends and family, two of whom are health professionals themselves.



reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 08:17 PM by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Blitzkreigen


So is this filter worthless? I was going to use it when i go camping this summer but now you have me second guessing. As i said in my post i have the Katadyn Pocket Filter 0.2 micron and i used it last summer and didnt get sick but it just took a long time to pump the water through.
Is the initial quality of water important? Obviously if i was using the gravity filter for sewage water or other really nasty sources it might not be effective but what about remote wilderness stream? I know there are bacteria in all water even remote streams but arent the bacteria listed below generally the most important to filter and/or most common in generally clean water sources?

You seem to know a lot about water filters and I need advice before i take this thing out in the bush and use it. I can realize that the filters you listed are better but they are also much more expensive and like i said i have already spent ~$200 on the Katadyn. In your opinion, would the monolithic gravity filter be ok for filtering relatively clean remote stream water?

Their site lists these specs
>100% Giardia Lamblia
>100% Cyclospora
>100% removal of live Cryptosporidium (WRc Standard)
>100% removal of Cryptosporidium (NSF Standard 53 – A.C. fine dust – 4 log challenge)
>100% removal of E. Coli, Vibrio Cholerae (Johns Hopkins University)
>99.999% removal of Salmonella Typhil, Shigella Dysenteria, Kiebsiella Terrigena (Hyder Labs)


reply posted on 24-4-2008 @ 09:11 PM by wilmiester
Good Thread! I just finished reading it... long. But I am a long time woodsmen with nearing 500+ days and nights of camping (geezzz... yes I know I have no life). Mostly acumlated in 4-5 years! Lots of camping...

I teach emergancy survial techniques, basic all-round first aid training, everything outsdoors basicly. Since I live in the 'Great North Woods' of Minnesota, (north United States, for al internationals). I also have aceses to a readily trailer full of camping gear, including tents, backpacking kits including water purifers... etc...

My recommend list if major catostrope/disaster zone/NEED TO ESACPE

Pre-Disaster
Know your esacpe roots, if everyone is fleeing a disaster scene, the highways/ interstates will be jammed! Know your back roads and keep maps readily handy. Also, make sure you know where all legal documents are, they will be handy also!

Route: If you live in a city, more people will be fleeing, its important not to get caught up in refugees, but head in the opposite direction to a remote woodland location, if any.

Survial Kits: These are easy to make if you camp often, keep them in easy storage, for quick removal:
-2-3 five gallon drums for gasoline
-5-6 colaspable five gallon drums for water
-Twine- Comes in handy for tying down stuff
-Large frame-pack- Fits many things
-large, easily compressed duffel bags work great for bringing any food, you can just throw any food you might need into it, more in-depth on disaster food later.
-extra blankets
-First Aid Kit (Red Cross Kit is good enough)
-Many Water bottles
-Hats, work gloves
-Many T-Shirts, Sweat#s
-Boots
-Any other clothing

Tool Kit
-Hammer/Mallet combo
-Nails
-Small handgun
-pencils
-Saw (wood)
-hand-powered radio
-Tape, strong
-Compass (NO GPS, if satilies are knocked out)
-Whistle/Flare
-Flashlights /w batteries
-Candles
-Fire Starters
-Plastic Tarps
-Knife
-Many Storage containers
-Shovel
-Small, colaspable plow
-many containers of all sizes

Backpacking Kits (Highly Recomned)
-Small, 2 person tent
-Pots, pan, utenstils (backpacking)
-water purification kit
-fire starting kit
-repair kit
Short Term Food Supply
-Canned Food
-Powdered milk -Dried fruit (in metal container)
-Dry, crisp crackers (in metal container)
-Potatoes (extermely good, helps with energy)
-Kitchen Utensils
-any boxed foods
-Ramen -(easy carbs for on the go)
-PB&J


The list goes on and on... this has probaly been mentioned before but the Red Cross site is excellent... www.redcross.org...

The 6 highest priorites in a situation are:
1. PMA (POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUE)
2. First Aid
3. Water
4. Shelter
5. Food
6. Improving Enviroment

Food is not very high on the list, but PMA is extremely important, after a few accidents (hey, I was only lost for like 4 days!) PMA is important, if you cannot believe that you will survive, you chances lessen. So, BE POSITIVE.

Also, learn how to build a shelter and learn how to sleep in one!

Know that surviving emergancy situations requires quick thinking, and prioritizing is very important, so, situation: You are sitting at home, and some sort of announcment needs you have to flee, this is an example:

1. Gather Family Members/Occupents quickly
2.Informing them of situation, keeping them calm
3. Assign and Prioritize tasks to them
-Food
-Supplies
-Transportation
-Other
4.Get on the least traveled roads
5.Head in opposite direction of refugees, and perpindcular of disaster, especially know the wind patterns in case of dirty bomb
6. Establish a camp with required equipment
7. Establish a steady water/food source
8. Establish Media contact
9. Wait it out

*The secrecy of your camp is essential. For those who did not bring eqipment will be begging to use it and steal your food and water, secrecy is key.

My 2 cents and some Brain Food
Willie


reply posted on 25-4-2008 @ 01:30 AM by Blitzkreigen
reply to post by iamcamouflage

No your filter is NOT worthless

It just wont remove ANY Chemicals Or Viruses. Or Radionucleotides.
We dont want to even think about Biological Agents, or Terrorist Chemical attacks with this filter.

Just KNOW that is only a '3 log' filter ( as from the last line in your post ).
99.999% Actually one Challenge Water test was rated at '4 log'.

I Personally own 2 Katadyne Filters... the "Combi" with the charcoal inside the unit and the Larger Expedition Model.. I cant remember its exact model name right now. The will do like 5000 Gallons to 0.4 or even 0.2 microns ( absolute versus nominal ). They have NEVER been used.

Use these filters with water from a relatively KNOWN relatively CLEAN source, like rain water that you catch, a stock pond that you own and know the history of ( no cattle or Ducks in it please ), or water that you know is NOT likely to be contaminated with CHEMICALS, PESTICIDES, Fertilizer runoff, Gasoline, Chemical Warfare Agents, Bird Flu, MRSA, TB, Ebola, or water that kids may have used the bathroom in. ( ie Swimming pools and E- coli--- )

You CAN use this water for washing and showering, after filtering ( if you have a surplus and we are not in 'War' mode or under Terrorist attack).

Also.... you WILL KNOW if things get SO bad , Bird Flu outbreak, Pandemic, Terrorist Anthrax, Smallpox or Ebola outbreak that you Probably want to use the First Need in that scanario. 'Right now' you are probably A- Ok 99.999% of the time

( Subject to change without notice or prior written approval, see Dealership for complete details. Offer expires when the Big Flash goes off in the sky)

I personally would get the First Need for 90.00 and use it for all my drinking and cooking water.

Just remember that you filter is rated for 0.2 microns "Nominal" and 0.4 microns "ABSOLUTE". It will remove MOST bacteria, but absolutely NO Chemicals or Viruses.

You CAN Pre- Treat your water to kill VIRUSES with household Bleach. NOT IODINE ( unscented, pure 5.25% Sodium Hypochlorite= Clorox) at a maximum of 20 Drops ( 2 ml) per gallon on really QUESTIONABLE water. You MUST MUST MUST allow 30 minutes contact time, out of the SUN, to kill MOST viruses, and some bacteria. THEN use your filter. Then allow the water to SIT in the direct SUN for a few hours to dissipate the remaining Bleach, or shake it up vigorously the aerate it.

You still will have a chemical problem, and possibly may have made it worse by forming Trihalomethanes when Bleach contacts other chemicals.

Note 1* I said DO NOT use IODINE, because it is very temperature dependent AND contact time dependent. I personally got a bad case of Giardia in the 80's from Mount Elbert in Colorado, using the "proper" dosage and contact time, AND being aware of what I was doing. I was DEATHLY Sick for 3 Months, to weak to walk, & dehydrated badly.

Note 2* Bleach, or chlorine, will NOT kill Giardia, E- coli, Cryptosporidium, or Cyclospora due to them becoming RESISTANT to the oxidation effects of the hypochlorous ions. You MUST still filter questionable water just to get the 'most common' bacteria.

Note 3* The way things are mutating and becoming resistant to normal sanitation methods, I'm not real positive about our future water supply.

We didnt even discuss Medications that are now showing up in CITY TREATED, EPA APPROVED water, from people flushing their scripts. Also, Radionucleotides from a dirty bomb, or even worse, a REAL Nuke.

We didnt get into Chemical Warfare Agents, Engineered Biological Agents, or UNKNOWNS that tend to pop up with 'Mr. Murphy' at the worst possible time. Killer Bacteria from passing asteroids or some such luck.

Yep, get a First Need.

Really.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

PS.. you can EASILY "flip" your filters on E- BAY and make some BANK. Then buy the Base Camp Model for 550.00


reply posted on 25-4-2008 @ 11:44 AM by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Blitzkreigen


Thank you very much, glad to hear the filters are not totally worthless. If this gravity/katadyn works for camping, i'll be happy. I will buy the filter you suggested for SitX.

Lots of good info. I'm going to start a thread regarding water filtration. Your input is welcomed and appreciated.


reply posted on 25-4-2008 @ 08:28 PM by Blitzkreigen
reply to post by iamcamouflage


Thank You, I'm Honored!

I'll humbly do my best to help those who will listen.

I dont have a lot of time to dedicate, but I will try to keep it short and to the point. I'm sure you understand, Water is Primary, and therefore I decided to post some experience to help out anyone reading this.

I have seen more mistakes made by people who are in 'Panic mode', trying to just get the first filter that they see, when a deep breath and a little deeper understanding will slove the issue correctly first and forever.

Your filter will be fine for on outing in the wilderness, because you are mainly concerned about bacteria. Not many chemicals in Pristine wilderness streams. Not sure about viruses, but your probably ok in April 2008 in the CONUS.

I do want to specify though, that the First Need Deluxe ( smallest unit ) is really only 90.00 NEW, and sometimes 30 to 75 on E- bay. ( probably not after this thread though )It will also GRAVITY FEED long after you cannot pump it by hand anymore. Any molecule of water that goes through that Structured Matrix WILL be totally PURE, even if it takes LONGER for it to gravity feed. A plastic bag , nylon stuff sack to support the weight of the water, and tubing is supplied with the new units to accomplish this " hang a bag of water, and connect the tubing to the filter cartridge". Every drop will be PURE. Its just 'time' waiting for it to feed.

You can also reverse the flow direction, and backwash these units to remove heavier debris, and ease pumping efort. A 10 Micron pre- screen ( included) will also prevent the larger sediment from clogging the unit.

To sum it up,

you really have No Way of knowing whats in the water you choose, unless you TEST for it, or you own it and know its history and runoff sources.

I have test kits 'a pleanty', but I dont have to worry about testing for 'Anything' when I use the First Need Deluxe.

FWIW, I used to do a lot of Caving, in Texas and Virginia. Many caves were WET caves, with underground rivers running through them.
I have seen MANY farmers 'well pipe casing's 80 to 120 feet below the surface, tapping into these underground rivers. The Farmer thinks that his water is PURE, because it comes from 100 feet down.....LOL...

Well, getting into some of those caves I had to traverse through BAT GUANO up to my waist ( no joke) , crawl through the rivers, and the bats all hang over the ceilings, over the underground river. They fall in frequently and drown. Of course they dont go outside to poop either.
Who knows what they eat, or touch and bring in to the caves.

Next Issue... how to heat the water for my shower. ( feelin' grimey )

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen


reply posted on 26-4-2008 @ 01:18 PM by spaznational
Originally posted by DaddyBare
Stockpiling no...
but I have picked up a few things off of craigslist lately you all might want to add to your lists...
The first is a hand crank grain mill so I can make my own flour...this one also has an adaptor to make it belt driven from a small motor...

I also bought this spinning wheel off a kind of funky old back to nature new age hippy hold out... man she was way out there... Of course you can just make one out of Bike rim if you dont want to buy one
anyway I also picked up the hardware so when I have time I can build a Loom...

the other handy item I have stored away is something called a Yukon Chainsaw Mill See what I'm talking about here Anyway what this baby does is clamp to a log... with the chainsaw you can then cut perfect timbers or planks...

I do have plans to build my own Cast Iron Sink Forge Nothing major mind you just big enough to make simple repairs or even cut nails if I need them...

I mean its not just about food water and keeping yourself safe right...you do want to be comfortable have new clothes blankets, fix that broken hoe of maybe build on another room if a new baby comes right? not that you need wood to build a room or even a whole house... all you really need is a little clean dirt to live in high style

[edit on 22-4-2008 by DaddyBare]


That seems rather excessive. I doubt I will be needing to make nails if infrastructure is down for a few months. How long are you expecting the economy to be down? Decades? Local entreprenuers and businesses both large and small will strive to get things back together because it is in their own best interest to have goods flowing and people working.



reply posted on 26-4-2008 @ 05:07 PM by Blitzkreigen
reply to post by spaznational


# 4 Combo, No Onions, Super Size with Large DP= 6.90 + tax
2 Chicken nuggets = 2.35 + tax

Dont forget the apple pie.

Is Mc Donanlds Cheaper in Russia? And .....

Point is, someone who says they cant afford to "even eat right now" is eating the wrong things and at the wrong places...and Paying too much.

50 Lbs of Rice and 10 lbs of beans is less than 2 Meals at 'Mc Ronalds'.

Are you getting internet for UNDER 20.00 a month? I'm not.

100.00 + a month for the cell also.

I have NO excuse NOT to have some rice and beans. I work for a living, support a household, and -EARN- every penny that I get. I also know that it can all be shut off in an instant, without notice, but the Bills wont stop.

Sometimes you just have to point out reality to someone to make them see their excuses are invalid, or simply excuses to remain asleep.


Best Regards

Blitzkreigen
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