US Navy Responsible For Earthquakes, page 10
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reply posted on 6-5-2008 @ 06:06 PM by Icarus Rising

Around 1200 UTC on May 2, Cyclone Nargis made landfall in the Ayeyarwady Division of Myanmar.


source

Found this on Wiki. There's a lot of good background on how the storm developed and progressed, too.

Sorry I'm not up to speed on this stuff enough to do the research myself. I'm still figuring out how the graphs you've posted work. The 3-D animations really help.


reply posted on 7-5-2008 @ 11:22 AM by danman23
Originally posted by WoodyAcres
Part I/II

Greetings,

I have been enjoying this thread. I now wish to join it hopefylly wpill fire into the HAARP debate. I am a trained expert in meteorology (as has been called for on several occasions). First off, yes, a storm system can and commonly does stall out this has been happening long before HAARP and will continue to happen as it is due to something called Rossby waves in the atmosphere (in fact, there are also stationary waves in Martian weather, but of s slightly more subtle type).


Hey WoodyAcres,

Finally.. a trained expert. Thank you for joining the convo. Thank you for confirming that weather systems do stall out. I did not get answers from anyone else. Could you explain Rossby waves a little more please?


Second, those "strange circles" on the radar readout are very common with the new "Next Generation Radar" (NexRad - commonly miscalled "doppler radar" - out that's trivia...). This too has been occurring since before HAARP was operational. These artifacts are caused by lots of things from the radar being pointed at too low of an angle (and thus it picks up low level humidity) to the base level reflectivity being miscalibrated.


Thanks for clearing that up.


I am no fan of HAARP, but 4neither of these very common, very normal occurances can or should be blamed on HAARP. Someone (I cannot recall who) correctly stated that in the case of a normal midlatitude low weather system, lingering contrails are commonplace and are well explained due to the adiabatic lapse rate and the lifted index (a measure of the mean vertical velocity over a large scale area).

First off, I never blamed HAARP for the contrails. I just say I was documenting them and that is why I noticed the spiral weather system. How can you say that HAARP cannot be blamed for the disasters or are not even referring to them?


I should also point out that I worked at a national weapons laboratory for more than 10 years in a physics department. While it is certainly not impossible to get electromagnetic energy to couple with the ground, it is difficult at best. What do I mean by "coupling in with the ground"? I mean that it is not enough to provide the energy for an event, whatever that event is, you also have to somehow get it to couple into the system you are trying to impart the energy into. So, for example, say you have an amount of energy X that is in the form of electromagnetic energy (as is produced by HAARP) - then you somehow need to couple that energy into whatever physical system you wish to impart the energy into, in this case, if you want to produce earthquakes, you need to impart it into the ground. Some fraction of that energy will be lost, so the net amount you will impart into the ground will be Y with Y < X.

Wow, 10 years at a national weapons lab... that is great. Do you understand the graphs??? I understand your position.. you don't think that we would do this to ourselves, but please open you mind to the possibility, other wise all you're going to do is find reasons why it is not probable that they did all this stuff. What I get from what you said above is that it IS possible to push the energy into the ground, but difficult. There would be a loss of energy when they force the waves into the ground.. right? Well, an easy way to compensate for that would be to make sure the energy above the epicenter before being pushed into the ground is more powerful by total amount of loss due to the transfer into the ground. Right?


The hypothesis (that is all it really is as far as you know right now - from the standpoint of being based in physics) that HAARP is using the Van Allan Radiation Belts (there are two, an inner and ann outer one) as a dynamo to generate feedback and then somehow be projectable to a specific area is possible, but dubious. I will provide some food for thought and links that I recommend you look into for more information to help guide you on your path.


Ok, so you are saying it is possible, but questionable. But the main thing is that it IS possible and actually, the newer graphs do show a direction.. that tells me they can direct it where ever they would like.


We do know for a fact that there does exist a special place in the Van Allen Radiation Belt where the coupling does act like a dynamo. But this is highly variable on a day to day and hour to hour basis and is also affected by the net flux of solar energy into that region, which in turn depends on sunspot activity among other things.


Since HAARP says they are capable of modifying the ionosphere could they modify the belts to make them stable when they want to use it? If not they could still just use it whenever it is at its peak efficiency.

(continued bellow)


[edit on 7-5-2008 by danman23]


reply posted on 7-5-2008 @ 11:45 AM by danman23
Originally posted by WoodyAcres
Pqrt II / II

I will leave you with one final thought to chew on: It was not us, the United States, who accidentally discovered this sweet spot in the ionosphere due to Project Argus Prime (nor, actually, any of our other high altitude nuclear tests)... Why is this place special and of importance in the nuclear community? If you know where this sweet spot is, then you know how to impart an EMP on your adversaries satellites. That was the rationale at the time. It was the Russian's who hit the right altitude, at the right latitude in one of their shots. In fact, it was one of the shots in the last two years in the Russian high-altitude weapons program. Take a look into that and then you might be onto something...


Just because Russia found it first doesn't mean we wouldn't use it. I wish our own country wasn't doing this to us, but I have had a strong intuition for a long time now (as have most people on this site) that our government has become corrupt. They are not looking out for the good of the common folk anymore, that is common knowledge. So if they publicly don't care about us. They may privately despise us. Did you see Bush get booed:
"President Bush threw out the ceremonial first pitch tonight at the Washington Nationals season opener and the inaugural game at Washington's National Ballpark. But the President — an avid baseball fan and the former owner of the Texas Rangers — probably didn't get the fan response he was hoping for, as he was largely booed by the 41,000-person sellout crowd as he walked out to throw the pitch. Watch the video" source
(notice the evil glare he gives the crowd at 56 seconds.)

In the comments of this home video from the crowd one guy goes "Umm...I hear like 12 people booing and everyone else is clapping. I don't see what the big deal is." then another guy responds: "Actuall I was at that game and believe it or not, there was more booing then cheering." I sure as heck would hold a grudge against people that boo me and obviously don't like me:


But you can't blame this on one person though.. there is a group of people out there working against us.. This quote is straight out of David Rockefeller's Memoirs (Random House, New York, 2002)
"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."


Finally, might I make a friendly suggestion that you check out pre existingthe ionosondes (same thing as a digisonde, as has been discussed herein already) at various global locations and create a global understanding of what is really going here (i.e. with more than one ionosonde( you can tell something about locality and velocity of a moving wave phenomenon; with three or more ionosondes you ocan triangulate data and start to understa?

You may have missed it but I did check out readings from the UK.. they do not have a history though. And if you look at graphs from HAARP it clearly is showing only the spiraling waves above the HAARP array. But can you find some that have a history? Preferably in Mexico (anywhere between Caliacan and Ciudad Juarez) and New York

Thank you so much for joining in the conversation... please help me. Out of almost 9000 people that have viewed this thread so far you are basically the only one with some professional experience in the topic being discussed that has spoken up.. not to mention you have a meteorology, physics, and national weapons research background.

Peace,
Dan

(edit to add: can you take a look at the occluded front stuff on page 8 and comment on it. (If you did not read the whole thread please do.. there is a bunch of stuff hidden throughout the pages.)

[edit on 7-5-2008 by danman23]


reply posted on 7-5-2008 @ 08:35 PM by WoodyAcres
Hi danman23,

First off, my apologies for the reply. When a reply is going to be
long I always write it out in a text editor first and then post it;
however, I inadvertently posted the draft and not the final version
which contained much more information a list of keywords for you to
follow up on. I will try and make up for that this time.

Originally posted by danman23
Finally.. a trained expert. Thank you for joining the convo. Thank you for confirming that weather systems do stall out. I did not get answers from anyone else. Could you explain Rossby waves a little more please?


My pleasure. Waves occur in the atmosphere on many scales, just as in
the ocean (including many types of waves that I am certain you have
never heard of). At any rate, a Rossby wave is a global scale wave.
These waves are also called "Mid-latitude waves" and are a planetary
scale wave (thus, they also go by the name "Planetary Waves"). For
those of us who live in the Mid-latitudes (i.e. all of us in the 48
lower states, for the most part) these are the primary waves that
drive our weather.

You know these as the storms that typically move from west to east (in
the Northern Hemisphere). Thus, as a zeroeth order weather forecast,
you know that whatever the weather is that is to your west will,
roughly speaking, be affecting your weather in the next day or two.

The jet stream defines the barrier between the mid-latitudes and the
polar regions. Rossby waves occur along this boundary. If you could
look at the Rossby waves in the atmosphere from high above the north
pole, you would often see a "four leaf clover" pattern, or sometimes
three or five lobes, up to six or so. Occassionally these lobes will
dive far south, this is called a "cold front" in normal terms.
Sometimes these waves will retrograde (which means to "move
backwards", i.e. towards the west) or stand still. And sometimes
these lobes will completely "break off" and create a very slow moving
low pressure system.

So, how could the system you saw have been created? I've described
two ways, but I will spell them out: one way is that a low pressure
system (a Rossby wave) could have been a retrograde system, causing it
to have the appearance of either not moving at all or
else moving slightly "backwards" in comparison to the normal flow of
the weather from west to east. The second way is that a descended
Rossby wave could have cut off completely in which case it more or
less just sits there until it gets moved along my the next Rossby wave
that comes along to move it out of the way. For a very nice graphic
of this phenomenon, that is not overly technical (ignore the equations
on that page) take a look at the Wikipedia Page on Rossby Waves

Thanks for clearing that up.


With regards to the radar images - no problem.

How can you say that HAARP cannot be blamed for the disasters or are not even referring to them?


Fair enough question. Try this on for size:

(Next page... Won't fit here...)

Woody


reply posted on 7-5-2008 @ 08:50 PM by WoodyAcres
Originally posted by danman23
[...snip...]How can you say that HAARP cannot be blamed for the disasters or are not even referring to them?


Now then, as I was saying - fair enough question. Consider this, though:

I, nor anyone else, cannot say for sure. However, I have been in
science for long enough to know of a highly significant effect called
"sampling bias". Sampling bias says that over the last 100 years or
so up to the present day we have noticed more earthquakes, more
tornados, more hurricanes, more lightning, etc. Why would that be?
Because we now have sophisticated instruments that allow us to measure
and see these phenomenon more often. Prior to 50 years ago, it was
rare to even detect an earthquake of less than magnitude 3 or so
unless you happened to be right on top of it. Now there are
many thousands of monitoring stations (again, a quick
look at Wikipedia says that we have gone from 350 stations in 1931 to
many thousands today). Furthermore, all earthquakes are
not created equally - in the American west the fault lines are
shallow, while the New Madris fault in the Midwest is many miles deep
(plus the soil is conducive to allowing the shock to be felt many,
many miles further away). In fact, with so many monitoring stations
we can actually sometimes pick up earthquakes with magnitudes of less
than 0 on the Richter Scale ("Less than zero?", you might ask - sure!
The Richter Scale is a base-10 logarithmic scale, so very small
numbers just mean very small movements. In fact, a single stick of
dynamite can be measured on such as scale, but it would be small
indeed...)

So, what I am saying is that the onus is not on me to
show that these are not natural occuraces, but it is instead on
you (or others) to illustrate otherwise. So far, I
subscribe to the sampling bias theory. Also, I lived in the Midwest for
three breaks in the New Madris faultline, all prior to HAARP going
online, so this does not seem out of the ordinary with my own
experience even, and I have not lived there in a long time.

Wow, 10 years at a national weapons lab... that is great.


Thanks. However, what I said was "more than" 10 years. I cannot be too specific due to my identity. It is more than 10 but less than 20.

Do you understand the graphs???


To a large extent, yes. These are similar to atmospheric soundings (the balloons we send up) however an ionogram (also known as an ionosonde) measures electrical activity in the upper atmosphere, outside the reaches of which we can get to by normal methods (read: using balloons).

Unfortunately, I want to make absolutely certain that I give the topic the justice it deserves as well as describe it in a manner in which a non-physicist can understand it (as best as possible) so this topic will have to wait until tomorrow (I have a small mouth to feed ).

However, I'm not quite finished with this installment:

I understand your position.. you don't think that we would do this to ourselves.


No, no. I have no doubt that we are not that stupid. Do you have any idea how many states we have tested nuclear devices in? Let me give you a hint, it is not two (New Mexico and Nevada - the obvious ones) but many more than that. Believe me, my mind is open, but I need to see more coherent science first. I'm trying to help you along the way because I think you may be onto something, but as I said (or think I said) this is not my thunder to steal - it's yours. So I'm just here to keep you on your toes.

Now then, here is that list of keywords that I promised but forgot to include last time:

- Van Allen Radiation Belts
- Kennelly-Heaviside Layer (which BTW Tesla detected too)
- List of Artificial Radiation Belts

(One more "To Be Continued...")

Woody

[edit on 7-5May-08 by WoodyAcres]


reply posted on 7-5-2008 @ 09:11 PM by WoodyAcres
Originally posted by danman23


A couple more keywords:

- High Altitude Nuclear Explosions (Pay close attention to the EMP pulse graph on that page, it's pretty accurate.)
- The Russian test that "got it right" was in the last two years of Russian high altitude tests.
- It does matter that it was Russia and not us (U.S.) since I said two things that offered other clues: it was both height and latitude dependent (see the Van Allen keyword and put 1+1 together)
- dynamo (very important keyword)

So you want to couple EM with a physical substrate? How 'bout a solar sail? How bout a sunburn? These should give a start. Those are (inefficient) ways to couple EM to a physical substrate, but they work. Also look at more of Tesla's work and read the original Eastlund Patent (which I have in PDF form and is available from the USPTO (www.uspto.gov...).

Finally, I should note that from an energetics of the Aurora's are such that the total integrated energy output of HAARP over several months would not touch a few days of highly active Auroral display - so, you need to stretch your mind a bit more (dynamo).

One last piece: contrary to what some here have said, there is a classified component to HAARP... However, it is known to be for communications with U.S. submarines. That is not to say that is the only thing going on. But that much is true. So why do I bring this up? Because unfortunately you now have a harder job to do: in a crisis or perceived crisis (like 9/11, if you really want to go there) then it would make more sense that HAARP was activated to communicate with our subs in case we were under national and not local attack. So you somehow need to discern the two - thus my suggestion that you check other ionospheric soundings (and yes, there are many around - just look for them, pay attention to the time scale (usually UTC) and the latitude and off you go...)

What I get from what you said above is that it IS possible to push the energy into the ground, but difficult.


Again, depends upon what kind of energy. This is your last bonus for the day Using Google type in:

- ground penetrating tomography HAARP

I suspect that is yet another classified program as to the specifics.

Woody

P.S. Will do my best to explain ionospheric sounding (the graphs) tomorrow or the next day...

[edit on 7-5May-08 by WoodyAcres]



reply posted on 13-5-2008 @ 02:58 AM by danman23
reply to post by WoodyAcres


Well, I have been researching all this for quite some time now.. almost a week now?? Wow, I didn't even realize it has been so long til just now. Since then I have had a lot of stuff happen to me.. The company that has been giving me a nice salary for the past 8 months to build their web presence from the ground up for the past 8 months decided they can't afford me anymore. (it's ok though.. I just need to find some new clients... actually it's kinda funny, the guy that owns the company was somewhat of a high up in Chase bank.. he quit there and started his own company, so the money I have been making came from Rockefeller's pocket.. so if you think about it I am using money that came almost directly from Rockefeller to buy food which powers my brain that brings them down.) Then just a few days ago I got in a car accident as I was sitting in the back seat on the way home from my friend's band's concert. Luckily no one was seriously injured though but it could have been really bad... we went from about 50 mph to 0 in about 2 seconds... (I didn't have my seatbelt on but luckily walked away with a only a bruise on my ass.. haha.. My friend driving wasn't so lucky though.. she busted her mouth open pretty bad and we had to go the hospital.) Anyways... sorry it took so long to respond to you but you laid a lot of info on the table all at once and I took me some time to soak it in.


So, how could the system you saw have been created? I've described
two ways, but I will spell them out: one way is that a low pressure
system (a Rossby wave) could have been a retrograde system, causing it
to have the appearance of either not moving at all or
else moving slightly "backwards" in comparison to the normal flow of
the weather from west to east. The second way is that a descended
Rossby wave could have cut off completely in which case it more or
less just sits there until it gets moved along my the next Rossby wave
that comes along to move it out of the way. For a very nice graphic
of this phenomenon, that is not overly technical (ignore the equations
on that page) take a look at the Wikipedia Page on Rossby Waves


Thank you for describing what Rossby Waves are and how that low pressure system could have stalled out like it did. I kinda recall learning about them in highschool, but now I have a pretty good understanding what they are. I understand completely that it could have been created naturally but is this a possible scenario:




No, no. I have no doubt that we are not that stupid. Do you have any idea how many states we have tested nuclear devices in? Let me give you a hint, it is not two (New Mexico and Nevada - the obvious ones) but many more than that. Believe me, my mind is open, but I need to see more coherent science first. I'm trying to help you along the way because I think you may be onto something, but as I said (or think I said) this is not my thunder to steal - it's yours. So I'm just here to keep you on your toes.


You have no idea how much I am appreciating your support right now. Thank You again.

So I looked up Van Allen Belt.. I have heard about it but have not actually sat down and researched it.. Here are a few things that stick out to me on the Wiki page:

"Energetic (radiation) particle fluxes can increase and decrease dramatically as a consequence of geomagnetic storms, which are themselves triggered by magnetic field and plasma disturbances produced by the Sun."
So if "magnetic field and plasma disturbances produced by the Sun." can increase the energetic particle fluxes and HAARP produces electromagnets waves and plasma they have the capability to increase the particle flux.. right? This is what they mean when they say they (HAARP) can modify the ionosphere?

"Solar Panels, integrated circuits, and sensors can be damaged by radiation. In 1962, the Van Allen belts were temporarily amplified by a high-altitude nuclear explosion (the Starfish Prime test) and several satellites ceased operation. Geomagnetic storms occasionally damage electronic components on spacecraft. Miniaturization and digitization of electronics and logic circuits have made satellites more vulnerable to radiation, as incoming ions may be as large as the circuit's charge. Electronics on satellites must be hardened against radiation to operate reliably. The Hubble Space Telescope, among other satellites, often has its sensors turned off when passing through regions of intense radiation."
So, there they are saying that a high-altitude nuclear explosion amplified the belts which caused satellites to stop working. So, for the Columbia Disaster, that shows that if the belts were amplified it could have knocked out sensors that set Columbia into a tumble with caused it to burn up in the atmosphere.. and the fact that HAARP was on at a very very high power the day before the shuttle went down it very well could have amplified the belts.. right?

"The belts are confined to an area which extends about 65°[3] from the celestial equator."
Source

HAARP is located at "62 deg 23.5 min North Latitude"... This means that HAARP has direct access to the belt. So.. they can send EM waves and plasma into the belts to amplify it, can they extract the energy they amplified from the belts and use it for other purposes? (Say, use it to amplify the communication capabilities or maybe even direct it across the continent and force it into the earth at a certain point?)

Kennelly-Heaviside layer: (from wiki)
"The Kennelly-Heaviside layer, also known as the E region or simply the Heaviside layer, is a layer of ionized gas occurring at 90-150km above the ground — one of several layers in the Earth's ionosphere. It reflects medium-frequency radio waves, and because of this reflection radio waves can be propagated beyond the horizon."

So this is the layer they use to bounce the waves off of to reach "beyond the horizon"... Indiana, New York, Indonesia.. etc.

(continued bellow)

[edit on 13-5-2008 by danman23]


reply posted on 13-5-2008 @ 03:10 AM by danman23
reply to post by WoodyAcres


So.. after researching "High Altitude Nuclear Explosions" I found that the USSR detonated a nuclear bomb at 150 km in the sky. That is at the top of the Kennelly-Heaviside layer so it was able to bounce between 90 km and 150 km creating a temporary "shield" that could damage satellites and space craft.
" * Electromagnetic pulse (EMP) is important only for high altitude bursts. For such detonations, ionization of the upper atmosphere can produce a brief intense pulse of radio frequency radiation which can damage or disrupt electronic devices. For explosions above most of the atmosphere, EMP can affect large areas.
* Ionization of the atmosphere from explosions in the atmosphere can interfere with radar and radio communications for short periods.
* Charged particles produced by explosions above the Earth's atmosphere can be captured by the Earth's magnetic field, temporarily creating artificial radiation belts that can damage spacecraft and injure astronauts/cosmonauts in orbit. "

Source

I was clicking around and came across this:

"Written Statement by Dr. Michael P. Bernardin

Provost for the Theoretical Institute for Thermonuclear and Nuclear Studies

Applied Theoretical and Computational Physics Division

Los Alamos National Laboratory

I have been employed in the nuclear weapon design division at Los Alamos National Laboratory since 1985 to work on nuclear weapon design, nuclear outputs, and high-altitude electromagnetic pulse (EMP) assessment. I discovered the impact of x-rays on EMP and quantified the impact of two-stage shadowing effects on it as well, revolutionizing the understanding of realistic EMP environments. From 1992 – 1995, I was the Laboratory Project Leader for the Joint DoD/DOE Phase 2 Feasibility Study of a High Power Radio Frequency (HPRF) Weapon. This study effort focused on the feasibility and effectiveness of developing an HPRF weapon for offensive purposes. Since 1996, I have been the Provost for a post-graduate nuclear weapon design Institute within the Laboratory, chartered with training the next generation of nuclear weapon designers." Source

Wait a second... what??? Let's read that again: "From 1992 – 1995, I was the Laboratory Project Leader for the Joint DoD/DOE Phase 2 Feasibility Study of a High Power Radio Frequency (HPRF) Weapon. This study effort focused on the feasibility and effectiveness of developing an HPRF weapon for offensive purposes."

On the official HAARP website they say "The HAARP research facility consists of two major subsystems: (1) the HF (HIGH FREQUENCY) transmitter, and (2) the other scientific, observational instruments". They say over and over again that HAARP is just for research but the guy above states that he worked on a High Power Radio Frequency Weapon from 1992 - 1995 ... "The HAARP program began in 1990" so there is a possibility that the HAARP program was actually a "study effort focused on the feasibility and effectiveness of developing an HPRF weapon for offensive purposes" and they actually built it and are using it now. We know that HAARP creates Electromagnetic Pulses and that EMPs "can damage spacecraft and injure astronauts/cosmonauts in orbit." so from that we understand that HAARP IS capable of taking out a space craft which indicates that HAARP was capable of disabling Columbia and the fact that I found that they turned it on for the first time in a month at a very high power the day before the disaster strongly points to the fact that they DID cause the Columbia disaster. Honestly, I really don't understand why we would take out our own craft... other than just to see if we can and to show the rest of the world we are capable of it so they don't attempt to invade the US from space.. whether it be rockets or spacecraft.

Soo.. in reference to
Finally, I should note that from an energetics of the Aurora's are such that the total integrated energy output of HAARP over several months would not touch a few days of highly active Auroral display - so, you need to stretch your mind a bit more (dynamo).


The electro jet (what causes auroras) contains millions of volts of electricity. HAARP CAN modify the electro jet as stated by them.

From wiki: "A dynamo machine consists of a stationary structure, called the stator, which provides a constant magnetic field, and a set of rotating windings called the armature which turn within that field."
In reference to HAARP, the stator is HAARP's electromagnetic waves positioned over the array and the armature is the electrojet

So if they use HAARP to turn it into a dynamo they actually might be able to multiply the energy in the electro jet and then use it for what ever purpose they want?

I did a search for "ground penetrating tomography HAARP" like you suggested and the first one that came up was this.. (everyone read this!) Source

This was written when HAARP was still only 36 antennas. (It has 180 now)

"Earth-penetrating tomography is a startling potential use of ionospheric heating. The method would work by beaming radio energy into the Auroral electrojet, the curved, charged-particle stream formed at high latitudes where the solar wind interacts with Earth's magnetic field. The radio energy then disperses over large areas through ductlike regions of the ionosphere, forming a virtual antenna that can be thousands of miles in length.

Such an ELF antenna can emit waves penetrating as deeply as several kilometers into the ground, depending on the geological makeup and subsurface water conditions in a targeted area. Aircraft or satellites stationed overhead would then collect the reflected ELF waves and relay them to computers at a processing station, where subsurface inhomogeneities that trace the outlines of structures suchas underground weapons facilities can be imaged. North Korea and Iraq, where buried nuclear weapons labs are believed to exist, would be prime candidates for earth-penetrating tomography surveillance."

So this covers the how they are potentially capable of inducing earthquakes. They can "emit waves penetrating as deeply as several kilometers into the ground"


reply posted on 13-5-2008 @ 03:17 AM by danman23
reply to post by WoodyAcres


I listened to the interview Stan Deyo gave on atsmix. www.abovetopsecret.com...
Towards the beginning he starts talking about a technique he was using to predict earthquakes.. like the one that caused the Tsunami in 2004.
The rate of change of temperature on both sides of a fault line. One side will cool while the other side heats up showing a current flow in the water and the atmosphere above it just before an earthquake occurs.. he goes on to say that he doesn't have access to the data anymore because the Navy stopped that.
The thing is though that he should not have been able to predict these earthquakes.. www.pnsn.org... "Because of their devastating potential, there is great interest in predicting the location and time of large earthquakes. Although a great deal is known about where earthquakes are likely, there is currently no reliable way to predict the days or months when an event will occur in any specific location."

So how is that now all of a sudden some amateur seismologist is able to predict these events when professionals have been trying for many years with almost no results?
Well, we already know that HAARP can penetrate water and earth and that it is basically a very large microwave.. (which obviously can heat things) Soo.. what I have speculated is that HAARP (or any other similar array) is being used to heat up one side of the fault line causing it to expand which artificially builds stress that would normally take many years (thousands or millions) to build up and then, just like every other earthquake, it suddenly releases it's energy which cause the earth to qauke.


From wiki: en.wikipedia.org...
"Most naturally occurring earthquakes are related to the tectonic nature of the Earth. Such earthquakes are called tectonic earthquakes. The Earth's lithosphere is a patchwork of plates in slow but constant motion caused by the release to space of the heat in the Earth's mantle and core. The heat causes the rock in the Earth to flow on geological timescales, so that the plates move slowly but surely. Plate boundaries lock as the plates move past each other, creating frictional stress. When the frictional stress exceeds a critical value, called local strength, a sudden failure occurs. The boundary of tectonic plates along which failure occurs is called the fault plane. When the failure at the fault plane results in a violent displacement of the Earth's crust, energy is released as a combination of radiated elastic strain seismic waves, frictional heating of the fault surface, and cracking of the rock, thus causing an earthquake. This process of gradual build-up of strain and stress punctuated by occasional sudden earthquake failure is referred to as the Elastic-rebound theory. It is estimated that only 10 percent or less of an earthquake's total energy is radiated as seismic energy. Most of the earthquake's energy is used to power the earthquake fracture growth or is converted into heat generated by friction. Therefore, earthquakes lower the Earth's available elastic potential energy and raise its temperature, though these changes are negligible compared to the conductive and convective flow of heat out from the Earth's deep interior.[1]"

It says that "heat causes the rock in the Earth to flow" and "When the frictional stress exceeds a critical value, called local strength, a sudden failure occurs" which "results in a violent displacement of the Earth's crust" (an earthquake)
So from that we come to understand that heat causes earthquakes... What is HAARP? Basically a huge microwave.. What do microwaves do? They heat things. Sooo.. we can now see exactly how HAARP IS capable of inducing earthquakes.
HAARP heats one side of the fault line which causes it to expand which then builds up frictional stress that, when it reaches the critical value, it causes an earthquake.

I need to see more coherent science first. I'm trying to help you along the way because I think you may be onto something, but as I said (or think I said) this is not my thunder to steal - it's yours. So I'm just here to keep you on your toes.


Well, I am no physicist and more works needs to be done, but I think I did a pretty good job of figuring out all this stuff. I really really don't care about "thunder" I just want to put an end to this and I would LOVE IT if you could help out as much as you can. Thanks again man.

Peace,
Dan


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 08:10 AM by WoodyAcres
reply to post by danman23


Hi danman23,

You are putting the pieces together nicely, but still missing many of them (that are publicly available on the web). That said, let's get you moving in the right direction again (I apologize in advance that I haven't much time right now, I already spent too much on other areas of ATS and have to get some work done )... Let's start with the following exchange we had:

from danman23, needed to put next quote in context... I understand your position.. you don't think that we would do this to ourselves.


quote from WoodyAcres: repeated for clarity No, no. I have no doubt that we are not that stupid. Do you have any idea how many states we have tested nuclear devices in? Let me give you a hint, it is not two (New Mexico and Nevada - the obvious ones) but many more than that. [snip...]


Did you do that one? Do you have the list? It needs to be here, I need to know that you really have your mind open (absolutely no offense is meant by this statement - also, this will continue to lead you to the right source, you hit one in your last series of posts...).

The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster is a red herring in this context. Wrong thread, wrong conspiracy, wrong type of accident. I can't stress this enough - this is a red herring.

Here is a quick list of new keywords for your search (you skipped a couple last time, so some are repeated):


  1. Luxembourg Effect
  2. The Original Eastlund Patent (US# 4.686,605)
  3. Patents that reference the Original Eastlund Patent (before black, some numbers below)
  4. D, E, F (F1 and F2 sublayers) Layers


"Extra Patents" to check out (go to FreePatentsOnline and get yourself an account - don't pay at the USPTO - don't forget to cross-reference people, follow the money and organizations...):


  1. 6870498 (Weapon Systems)
  2. 6758443 (Space Tethers - new keyword)
  3. 6755377 (Space Tethers)
  4. 5747720 (Tactical Laser Systems)
  5. 5041834 (Ionospheric Mirror That Can Be Tilted - related to above IMO)
  6. 4999637 (Related to above)
  7. 5286979 (Melanin in the Atmosphere - Chemtrails? Testable hypothesis here through CCN - Cloud Condensation Nuclei - raining down on us?)
  8. 4817495 (Discriminating Defensive Objects in Space)


After this, I will commence the discussion of "what the graphs mean". However, I think you will be a bit disappointed in that they are not what you think (and have assumed previously). However, they are crucially important and there are about 70 observing stations worldwide at all sorts of latitudes which, if HAARP is doing what you think will be visible in these traces.

Last item. Conservation of Energy. What HAARP puts out, is all there is. Unless there is some sort of dynamo effect going on, which should be explored further. Then there is the coupling problem - ground-penetrating tomography (which has successfully found underground structures using HAARP) does not equal earthquake. Your argument here needs to be much stronger.

Last keyword (which will help you when we discuss ionosondes):

- Wadley's Ionosonde (Three hits on Google - first one - follow the hole)

Have fun!

Woody


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 07:47 PM by WoodyAcres
Originally posted by whatchee
The recent China 7.9 quake, I see it was triggered by the circled

what a coincidence, everytime has ionosphere buildup


Greetings,

Yes, a coincidence is sometimes a coincidence.

Questions and Facts:


  1. Where is this data taken from? (I.E. please give a link for this station)
  2. The approximate latitude and longitude of the quake was 32N, 104E
  3. The sunrise on 12 May 08 for the lat/lon above is about 05:00 Local Time (21:00 UTC 11 May 08)
  4. The sunset on 12 May 08 for the lat/lon above is about 19:00 Local Time (11:00 UTC 12 May 08)
  5. The main quake hit (7.9Mw) occurred at 14:28 12 May 08 Local Time (06:28 UTC 12 May 08)


    So, "whatchee", I'm looking at this set of charts and am noticing a couple inconsistencies and potential problems, at least one thing done correctly and some additional items that were not perhaps followed up on from earlier in the thread:


    1. The alleged causal "feature" circled occurs between 05:45 UTC and 06:30 UTC on 12 May 08
    2. 06:00 UTC 12 May 08 = 14:00 Local Time 12 May 08 (for those keeping score at home)
    3. Ergo, you chose the correct time
    4. Did you choose the right station? We cannot know without knowing what reporting station you picked.
    5. The F Layer splits into two sublayers during the day F1 and F2
    6. The F Region (home of the F Layer, also called the "Appleton Layer" Layer) exists between 150 - 800 km
    7. The F1 Layer is the lower sector (approximately 150 - 220 km)
    8. The F2 Layer is the higher sector (approximately 220 - 800 km)
    9. The F1 Layer merges into the F2 Layer at night


      So, the salient things to note are that at the times chosen, the ionospheric F Region should be split into two over Sichuan, China (F1 and F2 Layers); it's not. This is a daytime sounding. Thus, this is not data from an ionospheric sounding in Sichuan, China. even though the image has the misleading red herring title of "Magnitude 7.9 - EASTERN SICHUAN, CHINA". The data is thus from somewhere else. So, a quick check sees that we are still getting data from the same old place (yes, the HAARP Digisonde website, folks). And furthermore, I was able to verify this:

      Mine came from the HAARP website (www.haarp.alaska.edu).



      Conclusions:


      1. Mislabeling data is academically dishonest at worst, disingenuous at best
      2. Apparently you do not understand the graphs
      3. If you did, you would also notice that these splits and coalescences are normal diurnal activity
      4. Drawing big circles around things does not causality make
      5. Similar salient features are seen on most HAARP ionogram days
      6. Coincidence is sometimes just coincidence
      7. The word "triggered" used by "whatchee" is the wrong unless demonstrated


        Methinks this may be Mr. Custer's last stand on this issue. If anyone wants to engage in discussion about what HAARP really does and actually work through the many interesting, classified, controversial and clandestine things HAARP actually does instead of batting at wisps of air, I'm all ears. I would even collaborate on a project to do such things.

        The previous post demonstrates, however (sadly), that unless and until someone else wants to understand these graphs (they are called ionograms and are not an indicator (necessarily) of when or when not the HAARP array was actually on) then I'm uninterested. HAARP has plenty of topics over which to be concerned, frightened and possibly terrified, but just posting plots one does not understand and drawing big circles on them is not going to win a case. It just better serves to show that we need to understand these things to discuss them and the conspiracies.

        IONOGRAM DOES NOT EQUAL HAARP BEING ON/IN USE



        Woody

        [edit on 17-5May-08 by WoodyAcres]


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 08:14 PM by djerwulfe
Originally posted by djerwulfe
I see this thread was started on 4-21-08. I recently tried to address this here, but no one cared.
Ah, no doubt. This stuff has to be done. It's an "us or them" thing. Ask any serious ecologist.
This technology is not new. And we're using it on an as-needed basis. All the "big dogs" are in on it. No doubt. If early warning systems totally fail for whatever reason, and you have tropical storms right beside earthquakes with no discernable causative relation, or storm systems making improbable course changes, doesn't that raise some red flags?

See Tom Bearden. Like I said. Don't act like this is news to you. I'm just glad I don't beat, mutilate and hate girls. Or have abuncha kids without any food for them. Because this isn't the time to be doing that stuff.
Whiny Westerners should head to the Middle East or SE Asia or China where it's so much safer and better. Go ahead and escape ol' mean Uncle Sam. He's so bad! How dare he defend your fat asses and keep food on your table! Fascists! Warmongers! Murderers!!


Oh. And it doesn't take much input. The Sun is getting hotter and there are already weird changes taking place regardless of human interference. Perfect cover, don't you think? If you live in low-lying coastal areas or floodplains, I'd move. Again. Don't pretend that's news. The Feds have made it clear that they don't give a poop about coastal ghettos. And I can't remember the last time I got anything for free from a coastal sprawl community, but I can remember giving things for free to a coastal sprawl. Hmm? Fair? Something for nothing and even though I don't know you, I owe you. Yeah. Makes sense.
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