Examples? How about U.S. robotic warriors? Haven't I read somewhere that those U.S. warrior robots recently tested in Iraq turned against U.S. troops? Ah... Maybe I just dreamt about it.

Seriously, stop watching movies.

[edit on 24-4-2008 by shinted]

[edit on 24-4-2008 by shinted]

Great thread. I just have a question.

People say, if you have nothing to hide, then you won't
mind the government collecting your information.

What does the Government have to hide.

We all know, all it takes is a push of the button.

Why all the secrecy?

If the secrets could not be used against the US government, to
wake up the public as to what they are up to, I doubt there
would be a need for secrecy at all.

There has been quite a lot of activity behind the scenes regarding the public release of the Powerpoint slides facilitated by this thread. The FBI and other government sources appear fixated on ensuring this story is "spiked" and off mainstream media coverage -- for obvious reasons.

Additionally, there appears to be at least two of the widely reported security breaches into government systems attributable to the Chinese government sponsored counterfeit hardware. The race is on to determine how to quietly replace suspect hardware.

Is the real issue if the hardware is a "clone" - with copied silicon, what keeps it (chips inside) from having other features embedded - Like the ability to intercept encryption key (PKI/RSA) negotiation phase packets and encrypted data streams?

Grabbing specific TCP/IP packet signatures on the wire is like being able to grab 1/2 of the key immediately. Other processes could expose the second half to the "wire" inadvertently, which then would also be grabbed in the same fashion.

If this is built in silicon, this feature could be undetectable - since it would be designed into the chips, not the software providing the routing capabilities. It would pass under normal checks fort software validation (md5 hash) the Cisco gear does when loading new firm ware.

It would also be undiscoverable, unless a security administrator discovered that the router was sending some information out to and external site that it should not be...

But who monitors port 80 traffic that hard - to see "what" communications from "which" devices are being sent out port 80. No one, that’s who.

The counterfeit issue is not one of commerce; it is truly one of compromised security at a hardware level that would be only detectable by the most anal security personnel.

If it is based in hardware and artfully developed - much like a Trojan - it is only detectable once you have identified its signature.

I am not sure if the average security guy would be watching port 80 at this level. And who filters and reports on all Port 80 communications traffic in their network? Aren’t we just looking top talkers, and already identified signatures?

If I only send a few packets from my Cisco gear - Would I ever catch it or recognize that it is a breach?

woooooooooooopsies!

while the masses squabble about who should have bought what..

a perfect setup has been created.

nothing happens on accident at the top levels.

if it happened a certain way it happened because it was allowed to happen a certain way.

you really believe that after millenias of accumulated military strategizing, and mastery of the art and science of war, that the one power in the world who maintains current dominance, and has up till now, dominated the entire planet, is in some way ...
.... intelligently deficient?

as in they can't do literally anything they desire?

you must have missed the 3 trillion in defense spending that was announced missing by Rumsfeld on 9/10.

i think that it's a number one priority..
that you are led to believe that the people in control are not intelligent enough to do specific things.

but wait a second.. they're too dumb to have thought of how beneficial you believing that would be to them, right?

so i guess someone smart OUTSIDE the government will think of that tactic... and not sell that un-thought-of tactic to them. because the govn't is too inept and lacks the funds to invoke that to occur. riiiight?


watch everybody argue over the tiny details.

it's like throwing bread crumbs to ducks at the park.



you've just witnessed the best setup for a backdoor attack to the entire data infrastructure.

they even wipe in your face the 20-step graphs and diagrams on how they accomplish it, then say it's diagrams of how they "figured out" how it was done...

meanwhile they're scoffing in their offices.

[edit on 29-4-2008 by prevenge]

---

---

CONSPIRACY OPPORTUNITY


I've been watching the traffic to this thread, and so far:

Just about every mainstream media television/cable news company has visited this thread several times, most of which within the first five days of appearing.

Over two-dozen, large mainstream newspapers have also visited this thread, with a spike in the first few days, and regular visits ever since.

There are links to this thread from over 200 different websites.

Since it was first posted, it remains in our top-10 most visited pages (including the site home page)... and has achieved over 600,000 views in a relatively short time.



I have the opportunity to discuss this topic, live-on-air with a mainstream media source (radio), and point out that despite the obvious popularity, this important story is not being covered in the mainstream news.

With that in mind, are there any specific points you (our members) would like me to bring up.

Or - is there anything new our members have uncovered in relation to this story?

Thanks




(we're trying to get some specific comments from the thread author, but it seems he/she doesn't visit ATS all that often)

---

---

The Chinese can hack away all they want.I work directly with the military communications and IT for FED.All the secure info and documents are all on independent Siper and Niper networks(DISA network).They cannot hack something that is in no way shape or form connected to the real world network.

Originally posted by CaptGizmo
The Chinese can hack away all they want.I work directly with the military communications and IT for FED.All the secure info and documents are all on independent Siper and Niper networks(DISA network).They cannot hack something that is in no way shape or form connected to the real world network.

no, not unless they bought or are using products that may have been through the hands of malicious hackers; can they not implement a hidden wifi portal of sorts? I would imagine hackers would see those situations as challenges, and not let themselves be defeated.
Where there is a will there is a way.

Or thats totally impossible and Im speaking from ignorance, in which case, I apologize, but at the same time, remember that when we think we are safe, is probably a good indicator that someone has already infiltrated our sanctuary. Maybe a co worker you have is a spy. All too often the government is trusting of a background check, how bout a mind scan, there ARE people out there whose life mission is treason, and whose life mission is to hinder ANY and ALL governments sanctity, there are many out there who see the synthetic world as inane, and spend their whole life getting in the door just to be able to knock it down from within, only when the knocking down occurs, its not them anymore, its the machines acting on their own fears that causes their own chaos which causes their own delusions of security in the first place.

oh well, its all just a silly game anyways, life and death, computers and skin, dirt and water, blood and purpose.

Security/privacy is the biggest farce and illusion ever contrived.

The military frowns upon wireless...meaning it is not used for sensitive info much less being able to get on a base with wireless equipment.Plus the military keeps all of its Disa network equipment in rooms with Faraday Cages.Even if they had wireless it cannot get through that nor will wireless work inside.

Originally posted by cutbothways
People say, if you have nothing to hide, then you won't
mind the government collecting your information.

What does the Government have to hide.

We all know, all it takes is a push of the button.

Why all the secrecy?

If the secrets could not be used against the US government, to
wake up the public as to what they are up to, I doubt there
would be a need for secrecy at all.

Excellent post and a great reply to a great many threads on ATS.
I starred your post because I agreed with it especially.

but Gizmo...

If the hardware is, shall we say, non-proprietary, then the "network" it's on would seem a bit irrelevant... if not in question, at least. (?) No?


[edit: to add]
No need to send or connect with, when all you have to do is sit back and receive...

... not saying that's the case, but the possibility does exist...

[edit on 10-5-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

I think the importance of this is not so much about these Cisco cards in particular as it is to do with it should never have happened.I think the military is up in arms about this because they reliey so heavily on contractors for much of this stuff.Who knows how many servers or bridges or gateways have bogus cards or chips in them and what they can do.Much less how long this has been going on....needless to say it will be a daunting task to check all that equipment spread out all around the world.

They may not be able to get at the really juicy stuff but they can get things such as names addresses,e-mail,and lets face it even Generals have not always followed protocol with info over a non-secure network.

[edit on 10-5-2008 by CaptGizmo]

The topic of this thread is now on the front page of Google News!

Dumbed down a touch. FBI rounding up Chinese hardware.

This is why all the backdoors build in all Microsoft software, have to be updated through the usual Win-Updates, when things like this surface.

These backdoors were negotiated by the US government, many years ago, with the Microsoft management.
That's why a inherently inferior OS software like Windows, was given the best oportunities and all available help from the DoC to flood the world markets. They gave the US government a tremendous advantage on all others, allies and opponents alike.

The German Counter Intelligence was the first to react, after Internet Hackers and Crackers started to point out several build-in software backdoors for the NSA and other agencies, in their Bundeswehr Windows systems, years ago already.

They developed their own proprietary Operating Systems, based mainly on LINUX software rules, and forced all sensitive German government and army offices to change to those OS's, and got rid of all Microsoft infected software.

One can have as many hardware backdoors installed and shipped as one wishes, but it's the software which will make it work in the end.
And if you know your hardware is malicious, and how, it's relatively easy to change the OS to avoid the hardware problems, when you know what purpose the hardware backdoor has.

And thus, the sudden Windows Update clusters, you encounter on irregular times. Hidden Cisco driver updates won't be any new in the field.

Some of us grew up in a time that we were were taught to fear communism. You didn't see products on store shelves labled "Made in Russia" or "Made in Poland" or "made in Chechoslavakia" (sorry for sp) because we didn't do that kind of trading with Communist countries. We were taught that it was bad. That in trading with them, in any way shape or form would guarentee that we would get substandard goods, plus cause all sorts of problems for us down the road (like these fake Cisco systems coming out of China, who is.... yep COMMUNIST). We knew then that the only way to keep our stuff safe and secure was to do our own work and to trade only with people that we were sure weren't involved in communism.

When ever you do business with a Chinese country you are doing business with the gov't. Even their own 'constitution' (google it) states that an individual can't 'own' land or buildings. What they do 'own' is the 'rights' to use it. They can't sell it like we would our home or business. They must have permission from the gov't to 'transfer' the rights to that parcel of land. They can't even manufacture a transistor without the Chinese gov't saying it's 'ok'.

This should tell you who is behind these fake computer systems and software.

This all seems like ridiculous hogwash. We all know if China was out to destroy American infastructure they wouldn't have to hack our Internet to do it. This seems like it may turn out to be one of big brother's reason to bring about a new Internet here in America that also will bring along more control with it.