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Pope Benedict Solves Mystery of Pedophile Priests . . . Sort of

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posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by The Nighthawk
 


Well there is actually a difference between following the Pope, and following the bible. A true Christian follows the teachings of Christ. A Catholic follows the teachings that the Pope tells them to follow. Big difference.

I don't need a Gucci wearing "holy man" telling me how to believe in my faith.




posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
[1] He is a Catholic
[2] He is not Christian

[1] He is a Catholic
[2] Catholics ARE CHRISTIANS.
:shk:


Originally posted by burdman30ott6
To say he's the leader of the entire religion

That's not what he said. He said 'the leader of this Christian religion'.
He didn't say ALL christians.


Originally posted by John_Q_Llama
Such a great system those Catholics have!

actually we do. And that's not how confession works.


Originally posted by budski
Ideally, the thread will return to its intended topic, instead of a catholic-bashing free-for-all.

Good luck budski. It ALWAYS turns into a bashing free-for-all.


Originally posted by Equinox99
A true Christian follows the teachings of Christ. A Catholic follows the teachings that the Pope tells them to follow.

Wrong. Geeeeeeze .. you anti-catholics really ought to read the Catechism sometime, ya' know?

Catholics follow the bible AND sacred tradition. (and the bible supports following 'traditions that have been handed down'.) No one 'follows the pope'. In fact, the church itself says to 'follow no living human being'.

:shk:

[edit on 4/21/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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There is so much ancient societal and cultural angst against the Catholic church that I am never surprised by the amount of 'bashing' that goes on, here and everywhere.

I can't say the 'hatred' hasn't been driven by oppressive policies and practices employed by the church and others in the churches name. Just like any other huge organization, you get the scum along with the pond water. And arrogance and elitism are rife within the structure.

One of the reasons I wish all other religions were under the same scrutiny is because then people would realize it's not about Catholics (or Jews, or Protestants, or Muslims) it's about PEOPLE. The things we do to each other are shameful, and the fact that we use 'excuses' like religion or doctrine or politics is more shameful still because it 'shares' our guilt with others who didn't earn it no deserve it.

But that won't stop those who feel some kind of twisted joy at being the 'righteously indignant accuser'.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Appologies, I misread his post as stating "leader of the Christian religion." My mistake entirely.

FYI, I was a converted Catholic and would almost certainly still be one if it wasn't for the gross difference in practices and positions between the Churches in the Southwest (primarily Hispanic) parishes where I am from and the liberalized parishes here in western Washington where I moved to 2 years ago. I am very versed on the Catechism and it was largely due to that knowledge that I left the Church. Experiencing such a dramatic shift between diocese in a Church that is supposed to be "universal" and seeing supposedly "sacred" traditions that change like the wind depending on how liberal your Bishop/Archbishop is and what the political stance of the predominant portion of the congregation is raised some extremely serious questions in my mind over just how sacred these traditions are. Seems to me like something so sacred would be a little more tightly held and followed by ALL the diocese, instead of being so open to adjustments and changes. Relativism is killing the universal Church in North America and, sad to say, it seems like this particular Pope is focusing on all the wrong issues to prevent it from happening further.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Tradition? I did not know Jesus lived in a $500,000,000 estate. I didn't even know he invested his money to profit. If the Vatican is considered Catholic and the head of the Catholics, then I say the Catholics are not Christians. Why do you need all those materialistic things as the head of the Catholic church?

The Vatican is more corrupt the the US government.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Tradition? I did not know Jesus lived in a $500,000,000 estate. I didn't even know he invested his money to profit. If the Vatican is considered Catholic and the head of the Catholics, then I say the Catholics are not Christians. Why do you need all those materialistic things as the head of the Catholic church?

The Vatican is more corrupt the the US government.


This Vatican has employed thousands of lawyerly logicians and scholars to justify why it appears to be the opposite of what the Bible refers to as the 'Bride of Christ.' If they believed in that concept - they should be pretty worried - all things considered. But make no mistake, when you examine the Vatican you are looking at the creation of a bunch of powerful old men, NOT the Catholic Church.

The corruption probably runs deeper and fouler than any of us will ever know. (- Personally the FED angle is the one that has me fuming right now.)



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


budski, that's not an article. It's an op/ed piece and a highly biased one at that.

The author could have presented an objective assessment of the pope, the scandal, and the church, but because it is an op/ed piece, he chose to lace his rhetoric with baseless and mean characterizations of the pope.

I'm not Catholic and I think all the hoopla over one guy coming to the US in such odd attire and in such opulence got very tiresome very fast, but I think that the author's treatment of this issue was unfair and unprofessional.

As the author didn't cite any data to support his accusations the reader is left with the choice of either taking him at his word or discounting his rantings out of hand. I choose the latter.

FlyersFan said that these priests were pedophiles first and priests second and I agree wholeheartedly. Pedophiles are known for finding work that puts them into positions of authority over children.

Such instances are becoming quite common in our public schools and the perpetrators are increasingly women. Surely there are societal bases for these increases in such behavior.

The pope is not wrong to suggest this to all of us, regardless of who we are.

Even if I was tired of the nearly nonstop news coverage of his visit with hours of his arrival, I thought the pope presented himself quite well. Well enough to make his detractors look like blathering fools.

The pedophile priest scandal was a horrible occurrence and it's impact should not be minimized, but such diatribes against the pope, based solely on his public speeches on a goodwill tour, or some comments he might have made when he was still a cardinal, is just plain vicious.


[edit on 2008/4/21 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by budski
 




Because of the spiritual issues, as well as the physical and emotional harm done, is this sort of abuse worse than any other sort?


This is the absolute worst of the worst, because of the phsycological effects of the attacks, or aggression, the effects are felt long after the initial, or repeated act is finished..

What I find so ironic about the entire situation, and believe me this makes the situation so much worse then any normal abuse case..

Is that these kids are taught that God is good, religion is great, Jesus WANTS you to go to Church/mass, whatever....

So you do, and you get raped by the priest. Well frick, aint that a contradiction.. they don't say "Jesus only loves you if you go to Church once or twice a week and donate to the plate and maybe be an alter boy. Oh, but do be careful around Father Tom, hehe, that sly ol' bastard sometimes gets a lil grabby! Just kick and run away!"

No.. these are the people we grow up to respect, revere, and ultimately base our religious and spiritual lives around THEIR words, THEIR teachings and the teachings of the institutions..

To think of a child growing up as a God fearing Christian, then raped repeatedly by a priest (and I don't give a DAMN what denomination it is, il get to that) and so your still a God fearing man, but also deathly afraid of the priest and any other person of authority.

Also..

This is in NO WAY confined to the Roman Catholic Church. This is a HUMAN problem, the Church and all churches are havens for abuse and exploitation.. numerous cases in Protestant Churches have been proved and prosecuted, but no national attention is gained form it. And THAT is because America, albeit the RCC is the largest SINGLE denomination, we are the minority. America is STRONGLY ANTI CATHOLIC and the MEDIA is ANTI CATHOLIC.

Case in point:

Last year in my city a small protestant Church was closed down..... because the Pastor (family, 3 kids if I recall correctly) had raped over 39 women. Not all children, some where adults that he forcefully raped. It was in the news for one day. It was in the news again when he got like 15 years or something.

Never in the news again. The denomination, never in the news. (some type of Baptist church)...

If it had been a RCC .. dear God, we would have had CNN, FOX, MSNBC closing the roads, interviewing everyone and asking around how terrible the RCC is.

The Roman Catholics and the Mormons... these are the only two the world are interested in for only one reason:

It is the only two denominations that ALL the OTHER denominations hate.

No, this is not defending the Catholics..

Instead, this is me expressing fear of any even larger, even more clandestine conspiracy among various other churches who cover up sexual abuse cases. And when THEY become public, its very, very ushed...

Do you all think it was something in the RCC that makes these priest turn to prey on their parish? NO.

I would bet anything that the EXACT same thing is rampant in other churches.

Only we won't hear about that will we?

This is just one of many, many reasons I do not trust organized religion and no longer follow any set form of dogma.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Tradition? I did not know Jesus lived in a $500,000,000 estate. I didn't even know he invested his money to profit. If the Vatican is considered Catholic and the head of the Catholics, then I say the Catholics are not Christians. Why do you need all those materialistic things as the head of the Catholic church?

The Vatican is more corrupt the the US government.


By this logic, Christian should meet in groves, or in the middle of fields and such..

I have seen some absolutely mind boggling protestant churches... I mean, architectural wonders of glass and steel.. millions upon millions spent...

Or God, how can we forget about Televangelist...

Ya..

These are the "real" Christians. People's ignorance is absolutely astounding sometimes, and sadly, almost never surprising...



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

Well there is actually a difference between following the Pope, and following the bible. A true Christian follows the teachings of Christ.


Not really. A church going "Christian" typically follows the doctrine of what the pastor tells them to follow. Thinking for ones self and being a church going "Christian" is an oxymoron.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

I don't need a Gucci wearing "holy man" telling me how to believe in my faith.


That's nice to know, but I am sure you follow the words of your pastor verbatim.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
the liberalized parishes here in western Washington

I feel your pain. It's even worse in California (Mahoney territory).
The bishops and cardinals are taking liberties, and they aren't supposed to.
It's very frustrating for the Catholics. VERY.


Originally posted by Equinox99
I say the Catholics are not Christians.


Stay that way if you wish.
Pathetic though. :shk:

Part of The Catholic Creed -
I believe in God, the Father Almighty
Creator of Heaven and Earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His Only Son, Our Lord.
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilot,
Was crucified, died, and was buried.
He decended to the dead. He rose again from the dead
and is seated at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty.
From there He shall judge the living and the dead.
etc etc etc.

As I said - Catholics are Christian.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
FlyersFan said that these priests were pedophiles first and priests second and I agree wholeheartedly. Pedophiles are known for finding work that puts them into positions of authority over children.


EXCELLENT! Someone actually posting ON TOPIC. Refreshing.
And that's exactly how pedophiles work. Exactly.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
This is in NO WAY confined to the Roman Catholic Church. This is a HUMAN problem, the Church and all churches are havens for abuse and exploitation.. .

Exactly. It's everywhere. It's in the schools AND in the PROTESTANT churches as well. Just use GOOGLE. It's easily found. However, there are some who just like to bash the Catholic church for this. They just looko the other way when it is revealed that the pedophiles are everywhere



[edit on 4/21/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by budski


So,
pedophile preists are a conspiracy (2002)

And then on his US tour - it's the fault of US culture because it's so secular and materialistic.

So does that mean he's saying not to bother with catholicism because it won't prevent you from being materialistic or abusing children?
He doesn't give mush reason to convert to it.. it can't even"save" it's own clergy.
I truly do hate that man. He covers up and protects child rapists at the expense of victims.. giving them the opportunity to reoffend and he has the audacity to point fingers at the outside world for this..? What stuns me even more is that he was elected to this position of moral authority. Is that really the best they had?


Edit. The fact that he thinks child molestation is a direct result of materialism also worries me. Does he see children as some sort of commodity like the clothing industry? creepy.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by riley]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
the liberalized parishes here in western Washington

I feel your pain. It's even worse in California (Mahoney territory).
The bishops and cardinals are taking liberties, and they aren't supposed to.
It's very frustrating for the Catholics. VERY.


Originally posted by Equinox99
I say the Catholics are not Christians.


Stay that way if you wish.
Pathetic though. :shk:

Part of The Catholic Creed -
I believe in God, the Father Almighty
Creator of Heaven and Earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His Only Son, Our Lord.
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilot,
Was crucified, died, and was buried.
He decended to the dead. He rose again from the dead
and is seated at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty.
From there He shall judge the living and the dead.
etc etc etc.

As I said - Catholics are Christian.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
FlyersFan said that these priests were pedophiles first and priests second and I agree wholeheartedly. Pedophiles are known for finding work that puts them into positions of authority over children.


EXCELLENT! Someone actually posting ON TOPIC. Refreshing.
And that's exactly how pedophiles work. Exactly.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
This is in NO WAY confined to the Roman Catholic Church. This is a HUMAN problem, the Church and all churches are havens for abuse and exploitation.. .

Exactly. It's everywhere. It's in the schools AND in the PROTESTANT churches as well. Just use GOOGLE. It's easily found. However, there are some who just like to bash the Catholic church for this. They just looko the other way when it is revealed that the pedophiles are everywhere
[edit on 4/21/2008 by FlyersFan]


Well stated, both of you. Personally I'm tired of the whole flippin' thing, Catholic, Protestant, whatever. I see little difference between the "Gucci-Wearing Holy Man" from Rome and the Televangelist in his multi-million-dollar Mega-Church wearing a $10K Armani suit and another $25K in gold and diamonds while he schmoozes dough from the naive faithful.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by riley
I truly do hate that man. He covers up and protects child rapists at the expense of victims.. giving them the opportunity to reoffend and he has the audacity to point fingers at the outside world for this..? What stuns me even more is that he was elected to this position of moral authority. Is that really the best they had?



The other Cardinals are most likely just the same. Remember, they all share a hand in the decision-making process that protected the scumbags. It wouldn't matter who they voted for, each would be just as guilty as the next.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk

Originally posted by riley
I truly do hate that man. He covers up and protects child rapists at the expense of victims.. giving them the opportunity to reoffend and he has the audacity to point fingers at the outside world for this..? What stuns me even more is that he was elected to this position of moral authority. Is that really the best they had?



The other Cardinals are most likely just the same. Remember, they all share a hand in the decision-making process that protected the scumbags. It wouldn't matter who they voted for, each would be just as guilty as the next.

Perhaps blackmail is a powerful campaigning tool in the vatican. Either his hands had the least blood on them so he was most 'moral'.. or his hands had the most blood on them and he was being payed back that debt.

"I'll wash your sins if you wash mine."


[edit on 21-4-2008 by riley]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by The Nighthawk

Originally posted by riley
I truly do hate that man. He covers up and protects child rapists at the expense of victims.. giving them the opportunity to reoffend and he has the audacity to point fingers at the outside world for this..? What stuns me even more is that he was elected to this position of moral authority. Is that really the best they had?



The other Cardinals are most likely just the same. Remember, they all share a hand in the decision-making process that protected the scumbags. It wouldn't matter who they voted for, each would be just as guilty as the next.

Perhaps blackmail is a powerful campaigning tool in the vatican. Either his hands had the least blood on them so he was most 'moral'.. or his hands had the most blood on them and he was being payed back that debt.

"I'll wash your sins if you wash mine."


[edit on 21-4-2008 by riley]


Both of you are missing a point here. Whether or not you believe in the papacy (which it is clear neither of you do), Catholics believe that he is selected via devine guidance. It isn't an "election" in the sense that everyone gathers around, listens to candidates' stances on the issues and then everyone votes. It's a long period of sequestering during which it is held by the faithfull the council is praying and asking God for guidance. Then, after they have reached an agreement through what they believe is God letting His intentions be known, they announce the new Pope to the faithfull. Without making any personal statement as to how I feel about the legitimacy of that claim, it still MUST be acknowledged that this is the belief of the faithfull and they have placed the entirety of their trust in this system. To mock it is to mock the average Catholic (including those that were victimized) by denegrating their faith and trust.

Back to the original topic. The entire Church authority shoulders blame for the abuse. The general population does not and the Pope's attempt at blaming them is a sad commentary on just how little the mentallity inside the heirarchy has changed. If anything the Pope should be gratefull to this country's non-Catholic establishment because in many ways they too dropped the ball by not actively persuing criminal charges against every preist accused. The Church very easily could have been charged with aiding and abetting wanted fugitives and with tampering with evidence and obstructing justice. The law, however, didn't persue that aspect of these cases and Benedict should be thankfull for that.

The media did what the media does, they sensationalized the story. It is acceptable these days to mock Christian religions and persecute them while non-Christian religions remain, for the most part, a taboo politically incorrect target for the MSM.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
The entire Church authority shoulders blame for the abuse. The general population does not and the Pope's attempt at blaming them is a sad commentary ...

I agree. And it shows a severe lack of understanding of what pedophilia is.


The media did what the media does, they sensationalized the story.

Yes. Makes ya' wonder .. why did they go hog wild on the Catholics, all the while they are ignoring the statistics about pedophilia in the public schools and the protestant churches.

hmmm .. conspiracy! (hey .. that's what this site is all about!)



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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As a Catholic myself, Ive learned not to be blindly submissive to the rule of the Vatican. Forced celibacy and being denied the right to marry for Catholic priests
never made any sense. The reasoning for it is the Vatican long ago decided that denying ones natural urges to procreate and seek companionship is deemed Christ-like and required to qualify for priesthood.

Excuse me?.....Ive read the bible front to back many times and I guess I just keep missing the part where Jesus said "ignore and deny the way God made you and the purpose God made you this way in order to qualify to preach his word please....thank you and have a nice day!"

Until priests are allowed to at least marry the Catholic church in the US will continue to produce more disaffected non-practicing Catholics than practicing Catholics thus killing off its own church. At least in the US.

Aside from the anti birth control(!) and priest celibacy issue Im down with the
rest. I practice my faith as my own Pope and I decide where I praise the Lord......thank you...



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by Reise Reise
 




The reasoning for it is the Vatican long ago decided that denying ones natural urges to procreate and seek companionship is deemed Christ-like and required to qualify for priesthood.


Something like that..

The church did not ALWAYS make it's priest declare celibacy .. and it when it was, it was not always enforced. There are countless tales of Pope's having mistresses and lovers.

In Ireland the tradition went on even longer.. as old religious figures could marry, and Ireland never fell to Roman Rule, the Brehon Law remained law of the land.

Even after the Pope declared all priest be celibate, in Ireland, out of Roman Rule, continued the tradition clear into 13-14th century. Ultimately Rome won.. but one must wonder, if in a place like Ireland, where Catholicism, despite being over powered financially by protestants and a protestant military force to keep it that way, the religion still thrived, it could never be killed off, because the parishes where so strong, and quite often the priest had families.

So why force the priest to be celibate?

Power. Control. The Priest is a subject to the Pope and the Pope alone.. the way I view it, it is essentially selling your self to the Church's will.

There is no logical excuse.

What's terribly sad, and ironic, is the effect of reverse Darwinism involved. Up till the 1900's the best and brightest of society where encourage to be in the Church, in old days several centuries back, ANYONE of intellect was expected to be a clergy member.. but they where all celibate, so you take the best and brightest of society and you don't allow them to reproduce.. not to mention scholars where confined to religious studies only.

*sigh* Religion should not be institutionalized.



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