Recent trip to Area 51- Guards cross the line

Originally posted by bknapple32I dont think the camp was bugged.

so how did they know to come back for the cammera - and find it unerringly ?

reply to post by ignorant_ape


i dont want to bicker. but cmon. i know your name doesn't really describe you. i explain it in the same post. i have heard, and you can do your own research if you dont believe me, that they have listening devices. They dont have to bug the camp. But thats speculation.

reply to post by bknapple32


again - how did they know the EXACT location of the camera ???

you truelly are splitting hairs over you " definition " of ` bugged `

but unless you wander around providing a running commentary / solioquay of your actions , how did they know ?

listening devices are a poor indicator of what someone is doing

or do you wish to change your story and claim thay had cameras monitoring you too ?

PS - you never answered earlier questions about how they missed you setting the camera up / failed to find it during search and knew within 40 minuites of your departure that the ` coast was clear `

While I enjoy thread necromancy as much as the next person.... Give it a rest already. The OP explained it already. Whether or not you believe him doesn't matter. He is sticking by his guns and bringing a thread back from the dead to rehash the arguement won't accomplish a thing.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


i dont understand where the difficulty is. They didnt see me set up the camera, i assume, because I was in my tent and didnt mention it. Its second nature for me to set it up in the tent before I go. So its not like I was announcing it.

I simply put the camera in the front seat of my car. They easily could of been looking at me with binoculars when I did so. Its a big desert, with lots of hills and joshua trees, so a lot of the times you cant see them, but they are positioned so they can see you. If you dont believe that, I suggest camping there in the future, and you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by trilateral
How appropriate!

If i had evidence of those guards messing with my things I would've left and took the camera with me somewhere I could show someone else and perhaps upload it here.

I would have been so excited to have that on film, I wouldn't have been able to sleep until it was all over the internet.. at least that much anyways. I definitely wouldn't have stuck around to camp AGAIN in the same general area.

This reminds me of the time I caught Bush eating a live kangaroo on camera. But then the camera got stolen before I could show anyone. You still believe me, right??

Hey BK, i read that you have more money than most, So due to the economic crunch can I borrow a few bucks...J/K

Mods , can't we just end this one already?... at this point we're just eating up bandwidth.

If this story is true,I would of taped that camera to me,at least you could put a claim in on your damaged property,be the only proof

As soon as a newbie (me) makes his first post on ATS, someone appeals to the mods to shut the thread down because the action on it simmered down before I got here? I'm not trolling, just arriving to the party late, with something to contribute I hope.

I actually visit the area 2-3x/yr on average (from the East Coast), and have previously read other things written by the OP. I have mutual acquaintances both online and in person, which give him some credibility with me. I decided to spend some time to see if he was being wrongly bashed. I found it interesting enough to read the entire 11 pages of posts and a lot of the stuff it pointed to, then write a detailed post of my own.

To me, the main weakness in the story was putting a fairly expensive camera at risk of theft, in return for a small chance of getting anything useful on video. Now that the OP has answered that the value of the camera is not significant to him, I think that his story becomes 10x more credible unless someone can show that he is a liar about that or something else significant.

His campsite was almost certainly bugged. Maybe "bugged" is not as correct as "under audio surveillance", but functionally it is the same to me whether his conversations were monitored by a planted bug nearby, or by the capabilities of the sensors sprinkled around the area, or by devices in the camo dudes' trucks, or an infrared laser aimed at his car window or tent-covering tarp. So arguments like "How did they know you shot video of them, or where you put the camera?" don't hold much weight with me. Talking with a girlfriend easily creates plenty of audio evidence about things like that.

In defense of the camos, but also adding to the credibility of the story, some camos are deputized in Lincoln Co, so investigating outside the border may not be improper or against their rules of engagement. Even undeputized, searching an empty tent on public land near the military border is arguably legal for them. The car breakin would be illegal in most places. But they haven't exactly lost any "illegal search and seizure" cases that I know of at this place! The local court seemingly always finds in their favor, and there may well also be executive orders or standing "national security" warrants covering them even if push comes to shove in a higher court.

I still see one double-edged issue. Namely, I think Ben probably enjoys pushing the envelope with the camos (headlight flashing contests, talking to border crossers, leaving the camera on to trap them, and who knows what else...) and probing them a bit. Maybe the camos had been looking for an excuse to push back. Or maybe posting what he did is just an attempt to probe them, though I don't think he'd give up his reputation just for that.

Only those who were there know for certain, so you can either believe him or not. I think the objections to his story were all out there before I got here, so my own analysis has just leveled the playing field a bit by showing how the objections are not as certain as some people think.

IMHO the story itself, and the OP's presentation and defense of it, do not contain any contradictions or impossibilities.

I wonder what the rules are for handling confiscated items out there. They must have procedures. Maybe the camera will turn up at a government auction or something?

I still give the OP the benefit of the doubt. Hang in there Ben, maybe we'll play "cowboy darts" at the Inn sometime and discuss this one over a beer.

Conclusions about camo country seem unchanged over the years. They can see and hear you, so act accordingly. Locking a car door won't stop them from confiscating cameras or arresting you on public land (ask Glenn Campbell). Constitutional rights are worthless if you cross them. Courts back them up. They are doing their job, not setting national policy. Show respect. Bring water. Enjoy.

JB737

reply to post by JB737


JB..Welcome to our little family.Now Ive read this whole thread too and I cant call him a liar but I have questions more pretaining to the folks who ransacked his campsite. Now Im not stupid, Ive spent substantial time in the Army and I know about the goverment funded security firms and the contracts that get bid on to work these sites but if he was camping on public land out of the Air Forces jurisdiction how can they enter and perform a search?. On occasion I visit an Army base here in NJ and they have private security but cannot enforce laws or initiate traffic stops or pursue off the reservation and thats a fact so if he was camping on public land and off the Air Forces property then whoever it was had no legal rights to ransack his campsite...Thats my big question. Are the laws in Nevada different? and Ive heard mixed emotions on the camo guys, some say they are morons with guns and some say they are augmented with AF security police which means they may be squared away..Ive never been out there so I cant make a judgement but some of the characters that work on the bases here in NJ are real sierra bravos. BK said he camps there frequently so he would know whats govt property and whats public.

Originally posted by bknapple
reply to post by MrPenny

 

Why would we sleep in the car? We had a Chrysler sebring convertable. Hardly much room in that thing with the top down. Plus we came to camp, we had the popped mattress and two sleeping bags to lay down, not to mention our three blankets to use for staying nice and warm. Thats what we came for.

Obviously you've held your own despite percieved inconsistencies in your story and we can see that you are familiar with the area so maybe you are telling the truth.

Um. Just one more question?
How did you lock your camera in your crysler sebring convertible with the top down?

reply to post by badgerprints


The top wasnt down. I said theres hardly any room with the top down. So imagine it with the top up? even more claustrophobia sets in. Plus it was freezing.. no top down that trip. hope that clears it up.

reply to post by cmd18B


Hey i did click the quote button as this thread is big enough as it is, so i may of forgotten some of your points. But the cammos at area 51 just dont act the same as other bases. theres something.... different about how they act and handle situations.

I chalk it up to the fact that area 51 has an allure to campers. They deal with folks all the time. Sometimes idiots who cross the border. I call them idiots because crossing the border ensures you a huge fine, possible jail time and possible car impound.

To me the worst is the car impound idea. In Lincoln county? Sheesh good luck getting from the station to wherever your car was taken to.


I appreciate jb. I knew that there would be some area 51'ers that have knowledge that some just dont have on this site, and they would see that I am 100% accurate on nuances to the story that a hoaxer just wouldn't be. And even then he's not 100%, which is fine. I'll continue to post here on this thread about future guard actions or inaction. hopefully jb and others can set up a trip and we can share an a'le'inn burger and a beer discussing this.


I hope the mods dont close this. Nor do I expect them to. I feel of as far as camping situations go for area 51, this one is up there in fun/crazy stories.

some may or may not believe me. I understand, I lack solid evidence. I search to deny ignorance myself. But where other hoaxers fail, I have tried to persevere. I have come back time after time to answer every question. I have not contradicted my story once. There are others who can corroborate my details of the story. I think that is the difference between a hoax and a genuine story on ATS, when the "video" proof isnt there.

Yep,
Read through all of that last night.
I've only been on for a week but it is obvious that we have some extreme views and ideas as well as believers and skeptics. I like the idea that there is enough experience here to run off the fakers and idiots that just want to stir things up, but geting on with things I'd like tio sak a question.
You pointed out that the security/ patrol/ camos were more unpleasant than usual. What circumstances might warrant such new behavior? Aside from the two civilians that had crossed into off limits territory during the day of course. Have you heard of this type of behavior recently besides yourself?

reply to post by badgerprints


No, from everything I had read and seen leading up to that, they preferred to keep their distance. I thinking it had a lot to do with the two women that crossed the border. When I was talking to them, they seemed very come offish. They acted like they had no idea where they were. Each saying that the gov has no right to just stop them and give them these tickets. They said there should of been a guard shack to make it very obvious where the border was, rather than a couple of signs.

And while some may agree, most will not. Its very obvious to stop at those border signs. One just doesnt happen to the boarder of area 51 on accident. Everyone knows what they are doing. And if they have come that far, that must know there is a consequences for crossing the line.


I assume they were even more come offish to the cammo dudes. Using the whole we had no idea routine is very old and an must come off as an obvious lie to the cammos.

they must have seen us talking to the ladies and assumed we should be watched more than normal. What doesnt make sense to me is, I know they record our license plates. Ive seen them do it before. They know we have been there many times without incident. So I would think they knew we were harmless. For whatever reason, that day, they thought we werent harmless.

An Alien Burger sure beats what we get in the Northeast, so I do look forward to being back in NV. Those road-hogging, range-roaming cattle are way healthier (both for themselves and the people eating them!) than the garbage beef we get here. I never miss a chance to eat at the Inn, even if I'm just going to Tikaboo, where Alamo is a more sensible turn-around point.

My own two encounters with base-related security happened much farther from the base than yours, so the camos were not involved.

On my first attempted trip to Tikaboo, I took a wrong turn onto a little-used road which my rental car was incapable of getting through, and within a few minutes, one or more copters were hovering behind a hill near me, heard but not seen. After I almost got my rental Taurus stuck on rocks, I turned around and was coming back through a cattle-fence gate when the 3 Pave Hawk copters revealed themselves and very slowly flew past me a couple hundred yards away.

Another time, some sort of plain-clothes security at the Vegas JANET terminal sent 2 vehicles out after me, when I took some photos (with a good point/shoot, but still only a P/S) from quite a long distance down the block as a pedestrian.

I think pedestrians frustrate them more than vehicles. There isn't a license plate to check out; cops don't have as many convenient reasons to stop you; and you might have set the situation up to be videotaped by an unseen partner in any one of thousands of hotel windows. So the pedestrian strategy has more merit at the JANET terminal than out in the desert.

A "secret dropoff" strategy has been used to create a "pedestrian" in the desert, though it is not as easy as it sounds to pull it off undetected. Nor does it usually lead to anything interesting even if undetected, with a notable exception by Chuck Clark.

JB737

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
People, there are no such things as UFO'S.

Eye of Eagle

UFO's are Unidentified Flying Object. If you see something flying in the air and cannot identify it, it's a UFO...period. Whether or not it's of extraterrestrial origin is another issue.

You come across as blinded by religion with a weak argument. My open mind tells me the bible may have been written by aliens...our "God".

Sorry for posting anonymously its been a while since I last posted and cannot remember my login details .

I wouldn't be suprised if Area 51 has an undesignated perimeter where the guards have orders to investigate people who cross it , with the amount of people who probably try to get in the place then who knows what may have happened before you arrived that may have put the guards and the base on edge . If something happened before you guys arrived then random people camping out would probably look really suspicious .

Here in New Zealand there is a naval base which funnily enough is the middle of the island , it is only a small base with a few buildings and 2 perimiter fences the one up close is the more secure fence where as outer fence is just your typical farm type fence . But on that farm type fence is a sign that reads "Trespassers will be shot" , now if a little naval base in little old New Zealand has a sign like that , then I am amased that people get as close to Area 51 as they say they do because tourist attraction or not it is a very reall and very active top secret base not exactly a place where they like people being around .