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God Does Not Exist

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posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


You speak of disillusion as if it is some sort of grace..........
Total disillusionment seems to me it would be akin to total apathy. Locked in skepticism of EVERYTHING not just picking and choosing what to be skeptical of like most self proclaimed skeptics do.
You are acting as if this thread is yours.........

This is not your pulpit for you to preach from with your clear as mud and rambling statements and posting of messages to yourself.


[edit on 21-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]




posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


I have offended thee and that was not my intention at all and so I apologize for any psychological harm to you ego that you may have suffered from reading my memes. I was sure if I was being offensive or seen to be hijacking this thread that a moderator would step in and politely steer me in the right direction.

But to answer you claims directly

1)That I speak of disillusion as if it is some sort of grace.......... well yes for me it is and I see no harm in it. not Knowing the taboos gets you killed!!!

2)That I am acting as if this thread is mine..... well yes I am partaking in it but I am well aware and quite willing to proclaim in court of law that it is BTS's thread which was started by their member Conspiracy Realist under the heading "God Does Not Exist" and I have never once laid claim in any of my posts to the "Ownership" of this thread and frankly its not worth going to war over as all I did was find an interest in it, partake in it (vigourously I might add but thats just me) and tried to stay on topic!

3)This is not my pulpit for me to preach from with my clear as mud and rambling statements and posting of messages to myself.......well so far as I can tell I can post and the moderators are yet to warn me off and you have yet to qualify which of my statements are rambling and which are clear as mud and which are both so I can respond appropriately so you don't seem to up to scratch with your posts so why don't you lay off me and focus on the real important question here which is "God Does Not Exist" or are you a moderator? if so please disclose your status to me and reprimand me and I will eat humble pie!



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


you just said ¨thee¨....



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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I would like to give a friendly reminder that the topic, "God Does Not Exist" is the point of discussion. Please refrain from discussing other members in this thread.

Thank You.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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If the OP's post is born of disillusionment. Which it surely is. Then may I say, that (my disillusionment is bigger then his)! Yet I'm not running around yelling out, "God doesn't exist"! I find much humor in all this discussion, Maybe the OP should watch, "The God's Must Be Crazy". A humorous account of what happens when men take themselves to seriously.
God cannot be put in a coke bottle, or a test tube, or in man's ideas of
what He should do or be. It isn't about believing there is or isn't a God. It is learning to trust such a God. Once you learn to do that; you are much more willing to entertain His existence.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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Other people may be there to help us, teach us, guide us along our path, but the lesson to be learned is always ours, because we have all experienced differently.

"In this age, which believes that there is a short cut to everything, the greatest lesson to be learned is that the most difficult way is, in the long run, the easiest.” -Henry Miller

We are all progressing, we are beating ourselves until we can live in harmony with ourselves and life period. It is obvious to me that we are in no way ready for contact with other intelligence unless we are fully prepared for that relationship because it is delicate, we could ruin it if we tried now because we think of oursleves so highly.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by Howie47
If the OP's post is born of disillusionment. Which it surely is. Then may I say, that (my disillusionment is bigger then his)! Yet I'm not running around yelling out, "God doesn't exist"! I find much humor in all this discussion, Maybe the OP should watch, "The God's Must Be Crazy". A humorous account of what happens when men take themselves to seriously.
God cannot be put in a coke bottle, or a test tube, or in man's ideas of
what He should do or be. It isn't about believing there is or isn't a God. It is learning to trust such a God. Once you learn to do that; you are much more willing to entertain His existence.


In order to trust a "god" one must search for the truth. Im not going to believe a book (bible, koran etc) that claims it has every answer to everything in the world from the creation of mankind to judgement day without any form of evidence whatsoever.

That is the beauty of science. As i have said before SCIENCE is committed to understanding the world around us, and most, if not all of it’s phenomena through studying, testing, and observation. Science ADMITS we don’t know everything about the world around us and is constantly searching for ’truth’,and not "THE TRUTH". As mankind advances in its technology and knowledge we may oneday find THE TRUTH about how mankind was created and so on. It is not a scientifically known fact as to where exactly man originated from. Scientist use bones and artefact's to try to determine which specimens are the oldest in the world and where could they have originated. Many scientists agree that the oldest in the world are from East Africa; however, other scientists will argue that they are from Asia. In the end, .....yet again here it comes, dont be compelled to blirt out God as the answer, ..."we still dont know"! And we may never know.

Religion on the other hand, BELIEVES IT HAS ALREADY FOUND THE TRUTH! Nothing else to understand or investigate. Religion believes it knows the truth already! And the truth is GOD. Period. God through Jesus Christ, Mohammad, Krishna, Santa Claus or whatever god in general. That’s the difference between religion and science, they are mutually exclusive.

Now can you see the arrogance and ignorance in the statements made? One is humble and admits there is a lack of knowledge and more to be found out, and the other parades around proclaiming to already know the truth and that all the knowledge you will EVER NEED is in 1 book. It doesn’t matter which religion you choose, they all proclaim the truth to be in 1 BOOK; the book that tells they’re religious story.

Just an insight, I don’t choose my words about God at all. I speak my mind. I dont care the slightest bit about offending a being which doesnt exist. Make sense?
Me giving respect, reverence, praise, TRUST or fault to something which hasnt been proved to exist, is the same as me giving respect to "lsdkhfkshfsa"..... yea gibberish.

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


I have offended thee and that was not my intention at all and so I apologize for any psychological harm to you ego that you may have suffered from reading my memes. I was sure if I was being offensive or seen to be hijacking this thread that a moderator would step in and politely steer me in the right direction... if so please disclose your status to me and reprimand me and I will eat humble pie!


Good Lord man...
Don't you get it? Nobody is impressed with your pithy pseudo "I'm an intellectual" language...oh...umm...pardon me...I mean "verbiage"

This is so typical of Christians. All claiming to be so "spiritual" and yet still maintaining egos the size of Nebraska. It's no wonder that non believers run like hell when they encounter us!!!!!



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by lapi7

Good Lord man...
Don't you get it? Nobody is impressed with your pithy pseudo "I'm an intellectual" language...oh...umm...pardon me...I mean "verbiage"

This is so typical of Christians. All claiming to be so "spiritual" and yet still maintaining egos the size of Nebraska. It's no wonder that non believers run like hell when they encounter us!!!!!


I like your interpretation though I don't care to elaborate, it would take more effort then I can see he is worth. This is where you get what you give. I really do think the key to figuring a lot of this out is personal responsibility.

"
From the myriad global belief systems arises a single picture that represents a composite awareness. This totality of thought creates the reality of the human experience. A great deal of effort is now focused with the intent of influencing how the individual and the total global awareness perceive the human experience.

The mind discerns what it understands is its surrounding reality but the feelings determine its believability. Confusion masks the ability to choose between what appears to be true and what the feelings believe to be true.

Beneath all the rhetoric that is focused on the conscious and subconscious levels within the current deluge of information in all its various forms is the human desire for the freedom to choose what is for the highest and best good of each individual and the planetary whole.

Mankind stands at the threshold, the decision point of whether to accept what it is being told is for its highest and best good or to instead shrug off the programmed suggestions and choose for itself a future that is in total contrast. At the heart of the matter is the opportunity to choose cooperation rather than competition, brotherly love and assistance rather than hate and violence.

It is time to observe, objectively and logically, the world situation that has resulted from competition and experiencing the premise of survival of the fittest.

This perspective separates humans one from another. Individuals making the choice to pursue a new course of thought will lead the way to different interaction with each other and will in time create a new paradigm of human experience for the planetary whole.
It is time to begin.
"
I will reference if you have the time. In your opinion is this fanatical or desperate to help?



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 06:16 AM
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God is a concept. God is a word. God is a label that has been used and abused.

It does not matter what you call god, I don't care if you say "he" is real or not. That is not the point, it is not the goal.

I just want to fill my life with love in every direction.

Trying to disprove "god" is like trying to give everyone the same prescription medication, yet everyone has a different idea of this word, this label, GOD. I try to look at the meaning of what someone is saying when they use the word god, instead of ridicule them.

Although I do use the term god at times to express in a word my own personal beliefs.

[edit on 22/4/2008 by Nyorai]



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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God does exist. I have a relationship with him.
I am sorry if you do not. If you are are really seeking the truth you must approach God with humility not demands. If you want an audience with a King you bring a gift. The gifts acceptable to God are a broken spirit and a contrite heart. Since I and many others have personal experience with him and you do not, your opinions are rather inconsequential. Sorry but a testimony never has to answer to an argument. Experience outweighs opinion every time.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
God does exist. I have a relationship with him.
I am sorry if you do not. If you are are really seeking the truth you must approach God with humility not demands. If you want an audience with a King you bring a gift. The gifts acceptable to God are a broken spirit and a contrite heart. Since I and many others have personal experience with him and you do not, your opinions are rather inconsequential. Sorry but a testimony never has to answer to an argument. Experience outweighs opinion every time.


Wow your using an argument through religious experience


You should consider that earlier in mankinds history, more or less everyone experienced that the Earth was flat, they were totally convinced of this.

Fast forward to the present day and science can explain why they saw it this way, even though it isn't true, thus scientists today are starting to explain why people have religious experiences and even trigger them without involving a god.

So when you make such a claim for the existence of a god based on the religious experiences, you can make an equally uncompelling argument that the earth is flat. :bnghd:

Your religious experience argument relies totally on the authenticity of such an experience, is there any possibility you can authenticate your testimony? :bash:


Since I and many others have personal experience with him and you do not, your opinions are rather inconsequential.


Yeah, but can you prove God’s existence? No, no proof either beyond your own "personal experiences". But you want me to literally "speak" (have a relationship) with God like he is anyone else? lol. I’m sorry, been there done that, no answer, EVER. And don’t give me the typical "oh he shows you through events in your life, maybe you just werent paying attention or you overlooked what he was revealing to you". Well, the problem is, God never answered and...dont say he did.

If there is a supreme being who I want to know, (who’s omnipotent) making it’s existence known to a disbeliever should be a relatively simple task, especially when the person outright ask to be given evidence or a sign. God has never provided that sign or "evidence". End of story......

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


You are missing the point entirely.

We can use the same argument against anything else and you will see where it falls apart.

We know how a car engine works. We build it, apply spark and the fuel ignites, pistons lift and plunge and power is transfered to the axles which spins the wheels which creates motion.

The fact of knowledge doesn't create the motion, it's the actions before that produce the result. It's the same with God and the universe. He may understand how it all works, he may be able to predict do to design the outcome of certain actions, but without those actions there is no motion.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 




Wow your using an argument through religious experience


I am not arguing with you. I stated a fact. You can know the truth too if you lose the attitude.

The earth being flat was a silly comparison, not worth comment. You don't really "experience" the flatness or roundness of the earth until you view it from space.



Your religious experience argument relies totally on the authenticity of such an experience, is there any possibility you can authenticate your testimony?


It is absolutely authenticated for me. I can't do it for you, only God can. But if you really want to know if he is real. It requires what i said above. He will be doing you a favor by letting you in on it. You have the wrong the attitude to be asking a King for a favor.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Enrikez
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


You are missing the point entirely.

We can use the same argument against anything else and you will see where it falls apart.

We know how a car engine works. We build it, apply spark and the fuel ignites, pistons lift and plunge and power is transfered to the axles which spins the wheels which creates motion.

The fact of knowledge doesn't create the motion, it's the actions before that produce the result. It's the same with God and the universe. He may understand how it all works, he may be able to predict do to design the outcome of certain actions, but without those actions there is no motion.


We can prove how a engine works, we can provide evidence for the motion of that engine which spins the wheels etc.

What proof or evidence can you provide that God was the creation of everything? NONE!

Humans need to accept that some things in life will forever go on unsolved because of our lack of understanding of everything around us. When man first discovered fire he probably thought it was "magic" or the gods, but now we know it had nothing to do with gods or magic, but that fire is a rapid oxidation process that creates light, heat, and smoke, and varies in intensity;commonly used to describe a state of combustion; like what happens when you rub to sticks together


Back in history humans thought lightening and bad weather patterns were the cause of god's but throught scientific studies we know that is not true.

You Theists may state that taking God out of the equation is just "arrogance"? I think it’s exactly the opposite, "intelligence". I actually think it’s the contrary when it comes to knowing how everything got here, the believers in God are the arrogant ones, instead of using science to arrive at a logical conclusion about something they don’t know they arrogantly claim "God did it" without a shred of tangible evidence to prove so and then walk on living they’re lives reguarding nothing more but a widely held "belief" as fact.

Touching up on another topic about morality, Theists claim humans are not capable to live on they’re own "morally" without God, yet your (Theists) perfectly fine with following the "10 commandments" which was written by men,... men who people claim was "inspired by God".

There is nothing to prove that, at all. But even then for the sake of argument just say I’m wrong and humans dont have the ability to live morally by themselves, your argument still fails because we still have humans who have God in they’re life and believe faithfully yet they still go out and kill people for whatever reason. So in the end, like I said, "God" really isnt nessisary at all, death and "f**k up's" occur both ways whether your moral or not.

The 10 commandments were set forth by God, believers follow the commandments with "God in they’re lives" and still that doesnt stop murder from occuring, nor does God prevent it. If his idea of preventing violence, murder, and turmoil was through sending down the 10 commandments, sorry omniscient genius it clearly isnt working. But you want to bring up chaos? I’ll give you chaos, put a church on every corner, have everyone thinking the same, that’s true chaos, organized chaos.


Peace



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 




Wow your using an argument through religious experience


I am not arguing with you. I stated a fact. You can know the truth too if you lose the attitude.

The earth being flat was a silly comparison, not worth comment. You don't really "experience" the flatness or roundness of the earth until you view it from space.



Your religious experience argument relies totally on the authenticity of such an experience, is there any possibility you can authenticate your testimony?


It is absolutely authenticated for me. I can't do it for you, only God can. But if you really want to know if he is real. It requires what i said above. He will be doing you a favor by letting you in on it. You have the wrong the attitude to be asking a King for a favor.


Well i guess your omniscient & omnipotent god had always destined me for eternal damnation. I guess i was just a robot living through "god's divine plan" always destined to fail.

God knew in advance that i would be an Atheist, in fact he planned it that way. Do you get my point?

Next time you have another "personal experience" with "god", please let the deity know to give me a sign that "IT" actually exists. Being omnipotent it should be relatively easy for the thing.


The earth being flat was a silly comparison, not worth comment. You don't really "experience" the flatness or roundness of the earth until you view it from space.


That wasnt my point though. Humans back in history believed the earth was flat they believed it was created by "god" - flat. Until further investigation and as human evolved with there knowledge and technology that was explained with SCIENTIFIC PROOF that the earth is not flat.

May you discuss in detail what your personal experience is?

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Realist
We can prove how a engine works, we can provide evidence for the motion of that engine which spins the wheels etc.

What proof or evidence can you provide that God was the creation of everything? NONE!


The rest of this post is inconsequential because you set up your arguement undder a false pretense. You've created a strawman here.

Understanding the principles of the engine doesn't provide proof of who created the engine either. So you have no arguement.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Enrikez

Originally posted by Conspiracy Realist
We can prove how a engine works, we can provide evidence for the motion of that engine which spins the wheels etc.

What proof or evidence can you provide that God was the creation of everything? NONE!


The rest of this post is inconsequential because you set up your arguement undder a false pretense. You've created a strawman here.

Understanding the principles of the engine doesn't provide proof of who created the engine either. So you have no arguement.


Strawman argument? LOL far from it.

You can do your research, investigation and find out who made the engine, thats logical i would of thought


Can you prove who created the earth, mankind and everything.... oh wait your going to say read the bible because every answer to every question which science does not have is in that little book right....."rolls eyes"

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


And you defend a strawman argument WITH the very definition of a strawman argument.

Especially considering I don't remember him ever making such a statement.

Aside from obvious logical fallacies that I won't bother to point out.

[edit on 22-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 





Well i guess your omniscient & omnipotent god had always destined me for eternal damnation. I guess i was just a robot living through "god's divine plan" always destined to fail.


No robots you do have a choice. You are choosing you own ego and imagined self sufficiency.



God knew in advance that i would be an Atheist, in fact he planned it that way. Do you get my point?


It's not over yet as long as your breathing. You have a misunderstanding of Gods will. I've explained it before here



Next time you have another "personal experience" with "god", please let the deity know to give me a sign that "IT" actually exists. Being omnipotent it should be relatively easy for the thing.


Again wrong attitude. He doesn't owe you a thing. You are asking for a favor from a truly omnipotent deity. Instead of screaming for justice you ought to try begging for mercy. He knows how many hairs are on your head at any given moment. I do not need to let him know anything.



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