God Does Not Exist

reply to post by andre18


That is rectified by free will within concious units to conjoint in creation and joy from its contemplation.

Originally posted by eerieleary
reply to post by andre18

 

That is rectified by free will within concious units to conjoint in creation and joy from its contemplation.

Speaking in riddles........

I was never good at puzzles

[edit on 21-4-2008 by andre18]

As a fundamentalist Christian let me be the first to say that if there is a God and if God wanted the world to know absolutely and without a doubt of His existence He could certainly show up and in only a way that God could do, PROVE Himself to the entire world like UFO's landing on the White House lawn...if He so desired.

He has not done this and I have absolutely no "PROOF" that He ever has. Therefore I agree with Conspiracy Realist. Neither Christian nor any practitioner of any other religion can "PROVE" that God exists, let alone that their religion by itself stands alone as the one and only "Truth"

This thread, debate or discussion would not even be taking place if God had "PROVEN" Himself to the entire world. Since there would then be absolute proof of who, what and where He was or is there would be no further need to discuss this issue.

For reasons that would be too lengthy to express here and now please note that I CHOOSE to believe that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be.
I CHOOSE to believe that He died for the sins of the world. I CHOOSE to believe that there was indeed a bodily resurrection of Christ.
Can I prove it? Absolutely not! No one can!

For whatever personal reasons I hold or maintain (and they are not necessarily based on science or even sound human logic) I CHOOSE to believe what I believe.

I CHOOSE MY FAITH.

And any practitioner of any faith or religion who claims authorship or ownership of “PROOF” is simply not being entirely honest or is completely disillusioned.

Please, no retorts from Christians declaring that I’m not “really saved” or any other such stupidity.

I’m a Christian…not a sheep or a lemming.


[edit on 21-4-2008 by lapi7]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by lapi7]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by lapi7]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by lapi7]

reply to post by andre18


I wasn't trying to be cryptic or anything, I just thought that was the best way to express it. Here is a snippet from the Handbook to a New Paradigm. I am finding a lot of good stuff out from it. It's here if you're interested in more.

"
The Truth is that there are multiple levels of activity behind
what appears to be a play of incredible magnitude. Who then is
writing the lines for the characters and what is the point of the
script? Would you be surprised to learn that you are writing the lines
and until you can figure out a point to the script, there is none? If
that is the case, then which of the individuals on the planet can figure
one out? Well, indeed there is a focused group that has decided
that they would like to put forth their point in the script. There is
just one problem with this: they have decided to put forth a focus
within the play that is not in harmony with the Creator of the stage
and the theatre that this play is to be performed upon. In fact, the
plan this group has in mind has a great surprise at the end for the
audience and the actors on the stage. They intend to destroy the
audience, the actors, the stage and the theatre.
Since the Creator of this theatre likes this particular theatre
and thinks of it as a pet project, this idea doesn’t appeal to Him
at all. Since He is not in the business of standing in the way of the
creative presentations that are produced within its confines, then
He is hoping that the audience will decide to make changes of
their own. There is a type of presentation that involves participation
of the audience other than just sitting and observing. The
theatre entrepreneur is wondering whether if the play being presented
becomes obnoxious enough to the audience, will they simply
walk away and withdraw their attention? This would then
allow the cast and its directors to destroy themselves, but then the
theatre owner does not want his property destroyed along with
them. He is hoping that the audience will come up with some
other solution. Perhaps there could be audience participation that
would perhaps introduce some new characters that would create
lines of script of their own. If a new story line could be introduced
with characters that could change the ending, then the performance
could be a comedy or a mystery or a love story rather than
a tragedy. Maybe audience participation could indeed create a
whole new genre of experience. Instead of depicting repetition of
experiences already known, could the audience in the intensity of
desire change the story line, come up with a creative scenario that
would encompass possibilities not yet experienced? Why not? The
greater the desire for change, the greater the opportunity for creative
new boundary-expanding story themes. Within the spontaneity
of group focus, without the academic control of leadership
with an intended purpose, conception outside of ordinary themes
is not only possible, it is probable.
"

i just wanted to comment on something the OP said about god parting the clouds and shaking his hand. in fact this goes for any situation like it.

if you ever wonder how people would react if god spoke or if jesus returned tomarrow, then consider this.

god himself spoke on three occasions during christ's ministry. once was at the temple in front of spectators. was there a mass conversion? did people accept the messiah? no. they still put him to death a few days later!

was jesus "convincing" enough? healing and ressurrecting? you'd think the entire jewish nation would have followed him. the pharisees even knew he was the messiah but they wanted to put him to death!

why?

in the end people will want to do what they want to do. goes right back to eden. adam and eve said they were going to do things thier way. the same is true today.

free will. a majority of the world has decided how they want to live. whether that is by the bible or by simply claiming to follow the bible (but still doing what you want), or by rejecting the bible, or by rejecting god. whatever its your choice.

rev 6:[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

cross reference this with daniel, where god's kingdom is likened to a mountain. it shows that the mountains here could be the worldy governments and organizations. if thats true, then in the time of the end, when all these signs are occuring and scary things are happening, people will STILL oppose god. there will be no mass conversion. they will hide in thier mountains or governments for protection.

i venture to say that even if god parted those clouds and shook your hand, that you would still spit in his face.

living according to the bible is more than believing. its about saying to god "i think your way is the best thing for me" and then following it.

wondering why god permits evil is just an excuse to you. its an easy way out.

did it ever occur to you that god is allowing you prove that your independant attitude is better?

its the ony logical reason that an all powerful god didnt kill the three rebels back in eden. he allowed them to live alittle. even to procreate. satan says you will know right and wrong, adam and eve follow along and basically say to god, we can do things our way. and god basically said "prove it."

so we arrive 6 thousand years later in a world that is literally going mad. people have been flooded with so much philosophy and propaganda that they dont know what to think. but still people want to be independant and they want to do things thier way. which is fine, its thier god given choice.

nevermind that if people actually lived by the principles god laid out that the world would be a completely different place. wars would stop, you would never have to lock your doors because noone would steal. social in justice would end as everyone would have at the very least consideration for thier neighbore. nevermind all that. we want to live the way we want to live.

so is god evil for permiting suffering? or are you evil for adding to the suffering?

(sorry if it sounds like an attack, i assure you its not. but i did want to get certain points across)

reply to post by miriam0566


Ok firstly, can you prove the existence of Jesus Christ?

I look forward to the evidence.

Peace

CR

Prove Jesus existed? are you kidding?, of course Jesus didn't exist, neither did anyone in the bible, oh yeah, they will say they did, but we know better. God doesn't exist, there are no ghosts, no ufo's, no angels, no heaven, nothing to look forward to at all. In fact we may as well turn back the clock and start raping and pillaging again, because there is no good and bad, no love, no peace, beautiful music is a waste of time, you may as well shoot up a heap of drugs, really bad ones, and set fire to the house, because who cares anyway?
See that little old lady trying to cross a busy road? don't help her, Push her, and laugh, it doesn't matter after all, there is no god.



Everything above is a lie.

IF there was no god, then what would our world look like today???
Pretty messy hey?
Of course god "tests us" and of course he knows the answer beforehand, however, just like all bad little boys, we all need "adjusting" every now and then.When god tests us, it's not for his benifit, he's not going to jot things down on a file, give you a star etc. When god tests us it is for US to work out why, and then to learn from the experience.
Even asking the question, Does god exist, will surely fill you with yes answers more then no.
Albert Einstein said it the best of all " Either there are NO miracles, or Everything is a miracle"

Miracles=god.
no miracles=no god

So the questiuon really is do you believe in miracles?????

(I know I do)
and thats good enough for me.

all the evidence to prove that god does not exist lies in the inability to prove that he does

Another thread from an Atheist vs Christian perspective. Prove the big bang theory is what happened to expand our universe. Prove God exists. Prove that you are not trying to divide and conquer, or you are not an evil satanist trying to ridicule the works of God. If you don't have evidence against these accusations then why should I prove God exists?

reply to post by skribal


why do people in this world require a higher power to be nice to each other why not just be nice because you want to and not because some old story book says you have to

Originally posted by mullet35
reply to post by skribal

 

why do people in this world require a higher power to be nice to each other why not just be nice because you want to and not because some old story book says you have to

Exactly my point. THank you mullet

reply to post by Equinox99


I have stood in a church with everyone standing up with the preacher doing his elevated speech asking the followers to come forward if they receive a message from god to come forward if this was real this is your chance to prove he is real but nothing no tv stations pay attention no big scientific investagation nothing why is that why do some preachers in america touch people with the hand of god and make them pass out and yet there is still no talk of this being the proof we need to say he is real if they where passing out because the preacher touched them with the hand of god dont you think in this day and age with the way the media is do you really think we would ever here he end of it

In essence, its my belief that humans dont know "God" and never will, and is nothing more but a concept created by man to simply explain away the world around him. To some people it scares them not knowing. It’s hard for them to accept there are just some things in the universe you will never know, and cant know. To them, they always "need" an answer for something, not knowing doesnt suffice. Hell in the end, it seems as if all believers have to stand for God(since they cant coherently define him) is "whatever did it". Yeah, whatever did it is God. Whatever put everything here. But it then furthers me to question more, how can you create "existence"? I’ve thought about that, something which already exist cannot be said to create literally "everything" if one thing is exempt, namely....existence itself. That’s a whole another story.

Me as an atheist, I enjoy my life without a care in the world, I have morals, my own. I do good, seek not to harm others and just live life....walking on, alone in this world, with no one watching, until something amazing happens, or....something totally f***d up happens. Either way....I endure. Why am I here? To find my own purpose for being here...or to create one.

I don’t need God to live a "righteous" life. I don’t need the fear of God to "keep me in check" to make sure I dont do immoral things. I have a mind, and intelligence and I can decide for myself what’s moral and what isnt.

Morality is subjective anyway, it greatly depends on the person judging what "they feel" to be inherently right or wrong. God isnt required for such. Through our own actions and consequences morality is crafted. Treat people mean, eventually they’ll distance themselves from you or treat you the same, because that’s how you treat them morally, do the opposite- achieve a different result. In any case God isnt required. I’ve long since past stop searching for "God". "God" to me doesnt mean the same thing it means to you, God to me really is nothing but a concept ...or a word with gibberish applied as it’s definition. To you on the other hand you think God is the father......of everything, but saying God is the father still doesnt tell us what God is; so basically "God" is whatever did it.


Being truely open-minded means accepting the possibility that you might be wrong. And if there isnt a chance that God may not exist, your close minded.

Peace

Originally posted by Equinox99
Another thread from an Atheist vs Christian perspective. Prove the big bang theory is what happened to expand our universe. Prove God exists. Prove that you are not trying to divide and conquer, or you are not an evil satanist trying to ridicule the works of God. If you don't have evidence against these accusations then why should I prove God exists?

Im not the one claiming that god exists. Theists are...as i have said many times the onus of proof is on you know one else. Atheists do no not make such claims.

which come first the chicken or the egg if god created the universe who created god

Originally posted by Conspiracy Realist
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Ok firstly, can you prove the existence of Jesus Christ?

I look forward to the evidence.

Peace

CR

there is plenty of evidence that jesus existed. go to one of the other threads that discusses it.

the notion that jesus never existed is obsurd. would you like to discount the holocaust too?

how do you suppose jesus was made up? the apostles got together and said, hey! lets make up a messiah! ill write one book and you guys write the other 3! it'll be great, we'll set up a church and rule the world of blind sheeple. judas! you bring the hotdogs!

please.

and how do you suppose they converted the first century congregation? the jew says hmmm i never heard of this jesus fellow, stories of healing and stuff would surely go around but ive never heard of him... oh you have some books? oh well thats good enough for me!

its simple.... the congregation could not have formed the way it did in the 1st century if jesus didnt exist.

Originally posted by mullet35
all the evidence to prove that god does not exist lies in the inability to prove that he does

the only evidence of you there is is the actions you do.

in a morgue, you can see a body, but the person (who they were) is not there. they are dead. so your body is not evidence.

nothing about your thinking is tangible. you cant touch it, you can look at it.

if i said to you that you are nothing but a program, you would not be able to provide any evidence to the contrary

so by your reasoning, your lack of ability to prove shows that you are a program and that you dont exist

yet, here you are.

Originally posted by mullet35
reply to post by skribal

 

why do people in this world require a higher power to be nice to each other why not just be nice because you want to and not because some old story book says you have to

because people are not nice. if they were, the world wouldnt be a mess

Originally posted by mullet35
all the evidence to prove that god does not exist lies in the inability to prove that he does

The inability to prove that god does exist is not all the evidence.


People can't "just" be nice to each other, cause then we would'nt have any wars and life would be boring
We need balance, good and bad, good, so we are thankful and remember to be, and bad so we can have understanding, compassion, and patience, virtues that are useless if everyone is nice all the time. Life is not nice, thats life,

Originally posted by mullet35
which come first the chicken or the egg if god created the universe who created god

thats kind of a stupid statement to make. it doesnt prove anything on the subject of god. infact it even hurts the athiest stance because by that reason, if god never created the universe, where did it come from?

if you can believe there was "nothing" and then poof there was "something" without any "design" then why is it so hard to believe that something always existed?

i find the concept of something having ALWAYS existed easier to understand




[edit on 21-4-2008 by miriam0566]