It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

God Does Not Exist

page: 3
3
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 12:42 AM
link   
reply to post by AshleyD
 


Ashley before i continue...

Can you please define, according to your beliefs, what god is?

etc: Omniscient, immaterial etc......

Before i continue can you answer that for me

Peace

CR




posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 12:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


As a Christian, I believe in the God as defined by the Bible. If you are familiar with the Bible, as I am sure you are, then you will have my beliefs pretty much summed up.

Sincerely,

The Fundie.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:00 AM
link   
reply to post by AshleyD
 


Lets first look at using such titles to define god as IMMATERIAL.

GOD "is immaterial" - your using a word that's "negatively defined", it has no positive meaning; it only tells you what something IS NOT, so still to use such a word (immaterial) and apply the term "is" along with it doesn not equate that the definition of it has changed to become a positive one. I can say "Conspiracy Realist (ME) IS immaterial" but still your using the word "immaterial" which has negative definitions, you can apply this word to anything but still it's going to be considered "negative defining" because the word itself is in the dictionary is NEGATIVELY DEFINED. Let's take a look......

"Immaterial: 3. "not" material; incorporeal; spiritual."

Your trying to superimpose a positive meaning to a word thats objectively negatively defined. You cannot do it! It doesnt matter to which context you use the word, still the word itself holds a negative meaning. It even starts off with the word "NOT". To say something is "not material" is telling us exactly that "its NOT MATERIAL" not what it actually IS. Saying something isnt material is still not telling us what it "is"; being "not material" can be anything; well actually it can be nothing. There are things we cannot see with our eyes but still they are material or physical to some extent, they're still matter.

Now if your going to claim my argument is false for the mere fact that we as humans have trouble describing certain phenomena within existence with words, then your actually proving my argument correct!

If you cannot define something positively it then becomes an abstract concept. Abstract things are things which are "considered apart from concrete existence" 2. Not applied or practical; theoretical." They only exist as ideas within your mind. Based upon the way in which you define God, "God" is an abstract concept for it holds no place in concrete existence.

And words were invented as a means of communication used in language or speech; they werent necessarily invented to describe things we have no direct experience with, that would be nonsensical to say, fore words are used in communication to describe things we have had direct experience with to some extent, we are able to interact with, experience, or observe directly or indirectly, with "God" words cannot even apply to such a concept fore based upon objective definitions, God is trancendant of humans and unobservable through direct or indirect means, so God then becomes an abstract concept something which only exist in thoughts; and is seperate from reality.

There is no evidence to prove nor suggest anything outside the human realms of understanding and logic has concieved these attributes (which are negative and incoherent), to claim such requires evidence or concrete proof, and you have neither.

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:02 AM
link   
im a pagan and i deffinitly dont belive in the christian god but as has allready been stated god cant not be proved or disproved. and also as to your adam and eve arguments many theological scholors belive that most of the old testament is purly metaphoracal. genesis then would be a metaphore of creation there was man there was woman they were free and lived well then they begane "sinning" (being anti social) and everything went bad fast. my grandfather was a preacher for over 40 years as a kid he gave me multiple bible versions to read, all the known at that time books of apocrypha and historical and theological studies of the judeo christian belifes to help me understand what he and my grandmother belived. what it acthualy tought me was that the bible was a amalgam of stories none of which had historical proof of there content that has been altered beyond belife by the variouse churches, religouse leaders and royalty through time, just look up the origen of hell ill even give you a key word to help you sheol. see how the concept of hell grew changed and mutated from simple land of the dead to a cold dark place far from gods love and light to a horrible fire plagued pit of torment and pain.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:09 AM
link   
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 
I think this is a brilliant point and to go further and to which a number of you may have seen me post this on other threads.
1. God made (Adam and Eve) they had two children [Cain and Able] Cain killed Able and went and found himself a wife (1+1)+[1+1]-1=3 where did he find hs wife.
2. the contradiction of forgive all those who do wrong but if you do not follow me you will not be able to enter heaven why is he not able to forgive those who fail to see the error of their ways.


[edit on 21-4-2008 by mullet35]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by mullet35]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:13 AM
link   
reply to post by krill
 


"I have this invisible friend right, i cant show you that he exists and stuff, but trust me my friend, he does. He is cruel, childish & vindictive and his morals belong to some society that is completely different from ours. I want to carry out his WILL together with my sexist organization who have over and over shown that when it gets sufficient power it will oppress, kill or torture those who don't agree with it. Therefore I should have a greater say in matters of ethics and morality."

The above argument would of course be a laughing stock, but that is until someone calls his invisible friend God, then it's suddenly deemed to be reasonable.


Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:14 AM
link   
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


well done



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by mullet35
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 
I think this is a brilliant point and to go further and to which a number of you may have seen me post this on other threads.
1. God made (Adam and Eve) they had two children [Cain and Able] Cain killed Able and went and found himself a wife (1+1)+[1+1]-1=3 where did he find hs wife.
2. the contradiction of forgive all those who do wrong but if you do not follow me you will not be able to enter heaven why is he not able to forgive those who fail to see the error of their ways.


[edit on 21-4-2008 by mullet35]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by mullet35]


There is so many contradictions and thats one of them.

If God is omniscient and omnipotent as described in the bible then he knew before i was born that i would not follow his religion and that i would be an Atheist from birth. So therefore i was always destined for eternal damnation. Wont ya think about that... lol

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by Conspiracy Realist
Now if your going to claim my argument is false for the mere fact that we as humans have trouble describing certain phenomena within existence with words, then your actually proving my argument correct!


So...

If I agree with you: You are correct and your point is proven.
If I disagree with you: You are correct and your point is proven.

Got it.


If that is your logic, then I don't see the point in debating the rest of your arguments dealing with logic.

As for the rest of your sermon, I will simply leave you with a parting thought: You have not received your personal proof so according to your measurement of something's existence, God does not exist. Others have received their own confirmation and believe God exists. That about sums it up. You cannot tell someone who has experienced something that it was not real simply because you have not seen it.

And again, you are trying to measure a spiritual force and being by our material definitions and expectations. This simply cannot be done, depending on your definition of what God is.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:20 AM
link   
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 

Could God exist before the Universe existed? If so where was he standing? Is He a part of the Universe? Is He made up of Universe matter? If so how could He exist prior to the Universe? Just asking so I can understand better.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:22 AM
link   
reply to post by Sway33
 


I am not posting to try to sway your beliefs in any way shape or form, simply to answer your question to believers. I also can not speak for all believers as i do not know thier beliefs, only mine. The answer is yes as a person that believes in GOD i have asked the question where did GOD come from along with many others. Just because i believe in him does not mean that i do not question. No i am not blinded by the bible. There are many aspects of the bible that i am not comfortable with, and i believe that mistakes were made during translation of the original texts. I also believe that although the bible is supposed to be the word of GOD, i must take into account that it was indeed written by man. I do not believe in GOD because of what the bible says. i believe in him because of my own life experiances, and i choose to believe in him of my own FREE WILL, just as you are free not to believe in him.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:22 AM
link   
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


immaterial does not mean non existent for instance a magnetic or electric field is immaterial. Same with gravity. You can't see it or hold it but is a force in nature... However these are quantifiable... But a little closer to home is human emotions. You certainly feel you emotions don't you? Are they material? No but they are real. How do you measure or quantify them? You can not. But they are part of what makes you human. They are an extension of your spirit. What about thought energy? Can you put it in a jar. No. Is it real? Yes.


[edit on 4/21/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


can you tell me what that at all has to do with what i stated? did i say christians are right? no in fact i even stated im a pagan you know those people the church used as fire wood for all those years? im just saying that you cant prove or disprove gods exsistance any god and you also cant use scripture to do it because the scriptures them selves are seriously flawed, severly altered, mostly metaphorical, and have nothing to verify its "mystical" claims in the historical record.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:27 AM
link   
Oh, and one day I just might learn my lesson to stay out of these types of threads.


God Does Not Exist

Proof That God Does Not Exist

God Exists, God Does Not Exist

What If God Did Not Exist?

Existence of God

Disproof of God

Why It's Pointless Trying to Prove God

Proof if There is a God

The Argument Over the Existence of God

One sweet, beautiful day I will most definitely learn my lesson to keep my mouth shut in such threads.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:29 AM
link   
God simply doesn't exist because of the many paradoxes that prove its very existence contradicts itself….

(On another note: what happened to AshleyD? Banned?)



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:29 AM
link   
reply to post by AshleyD
 


hey ash why does it say under your handel that your banned but your still able to post? just wondering. sorry for the off topic post.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:30 AM
link   
reply to post by andre18
 


Which paradoxes, though? I've yet to see anything that proves that a God couldn't exist.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by andre18
 


Which paradoxes, though? I've yet to see anything that proves that a God couldn't exist.


You havnt seen the many contradictions written in the bible and other religious books?

If not then i will be happy enough to post you some links....


Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 01:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sway33
Maybe a believer can answer this for me.

Why does the search always stop at the supposed "God?" If someone must have created the universe, then why does it stop there? Who created "God?"


IMO It is easier to comprehend God as Divine Thought. God was just the first thought to say hey lets do something with this ________w/e u wanna call it (nothingness, timelessness) and that was the begining of his creative inspiration, which has been inspring life and energy and will forever. Everyone has ther own view but in the end he is our father because he trancends us.

Conspiracy Realist-
First of all I am offering my honest opinion only to offer any help I can. So there is my intent.
I have no words to properly answer your question, but you may find answers from people who are truly trying to wake people like you up. By that I only mean making realizations, connections and changes as I am and as we all must.
I will also state quickly that this is following IMO, NGC2736's logic, which may be of some refernce to nudge you.
I would recommend starting with the George Green Interview on the Project Camelot website. Here The second one is a little longer but not so doom and gloom.
That will lead you to his website www.nomorehoaxes.com where you can download the books free of charge, or purchase hard copies for small price.
I really hope you find your answers, you will no matter what if you keep looking with the intention pure, that is divine/universal law.



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 02:16 AM
link   
reply to post by ThePiemaker
 


For a god figure to exist it needs to know everything ‘omnipresent' (past – present – future) and to be completely all powerful ‘omnipotent’ to be able to do absolutely anything, there has to be nothing god can’t do – nothing

If god knows everything in the future then it knows its own future so it’s tied by fait. It knows every thing it’s going to do before it does it, god can’t escape its destiny so there’s something god can’t do - because of this god is not all powerful

There are many more paradoxes but that’s just an example


[edit on 21-4-2008 by andre18]



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join