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God Does Not Exist

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posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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According to the belief of the believers all that is happening is nothing more but what God has planned. God is Omniscient, meaning he knows past, present, and future and possesses all knowledge, so logically God DID know absolutely that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit and have "sin" and death enter the world. So ultimately, God is responsible; he put the tree there AND the snake with the fruit to begin with.

Yep, thats right the whole story doesn't make a sense.

Further more, here is also something else for your arsenal of knowledge, the very attribute of omniscience is a contradiction to "faith". The entire concept of faith is rendered rhetorical when taking God's omniscience into account. You ask a Theist why does bad things happen to them, more often than not they will say because "God wants to test my faith in him". Well.....if that's the case, faith quickly becomes problematic. First of all, why would God need to "test" anything? In that context to "test" would mean to "find something out", "experiment", "produce a stimuli to see what will occur",(implying a lack of knowledge) well then...if God is omniscient and knows in advance what will occur there is NO NEED for GOD to TEST YOUR faith, because he knows ABSOLUTELY how strong the depth of your "faith" or "trust" is in him.

So, logically if God has to "test" your faith or anything for that matter, "God" is NOT omniscient; meaning he doesn't know the past, present, or future. He has a lack of knowledge;just like us. Yes. End of argument, that fact is something a Theist will often not want to come to terms with because they are conditioned to believe they're God is SUPREME over all and everything, so taking away some of his godly power or knowledge wouldn't sit well with them. Ya dig, lol?

Well, as far as the topic of God goes, I've heard every argument and debated every topic, and each time I find a new hole in the concept of God, in any shape or fashion. I guess the only thing which will make me believe in God is to actually have [God] open up the sky and come shake my damn hand, but believers tell you that surely will never happen so Im going to forever be an atheist (hardcore).

If God knows all, and is omniscient that would also mean when he speaks, he should never ask QUESTIONS because he knows already. Everything he should say should be in statements. lol. Questions too imply a "lack" of knowledge. So would ya think about that.......

Peace

 


Removed racist term

From the T&C's

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 20/4/08 by masqua]




posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:09 PM
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That has always been my view God.

Also, if God knew the past, present, and future and all knowledge within, then he would have no reason to interact with humans. He would make no demands, requests or commandments, he simply would not need to.

If God created everything in this universe with his vast pool of knowledge then he instantly set in course the history of the universe. He would have no need to change anything ever.

Why would God the creator, and all loving supreme being with all knowledge and power need are worship of him? The devil did it is not a logical answer either. The devil would simply not exist if God was all powerful and all knowing.


Something to think about-
-----------------------------

If humans had the power and knowledge to create a universe with living inhabitants would they assume we the creators to be the all powerful, all knowing God? How would we plan out the history of the universe?



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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Hahahaha


Exactly

Not much else to say. You hit it right on.

How any logical person could believe the bible is beyond me. O wait I do know it's called faith
. Faith what a convenient answer.

If your trying to deny ignorance I don't know how a person could believe the bible.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:27 PM
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Not that I'm stating an opinion for or against God, in any of His guises, but I can think of a way right off that undoes your logical construct.

Have you ever watched a movie about something you didn't really believe? You suspended belief while you watched, you "got into" the performance, and ignore the fact that time travel raises so many paradoxes that it's headache inducing to contemplate.

And a second or third viewing works much the same. We intentionally ignore the coming scenes to savor the one taking place.

Now think of that in connection with an all powerful Deity.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Well, if you think that God created this world for his own benefit rather than our own than I could see why you would think that. But if this world was made for us, than it doesn't matter that he knows the outcome, because there's reason for us to live this life.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by NGC2736
Not that I'm stating an opinion for or against God, in any of His guises, but I can think of a way right off that undoes your logical construct.

Have you ever watched a movie about something you didn't really believe? You suspended belief while you watched, you "got into" the performance, and ignore the fact that time travel raises so many paradoxes that it's headache inducing to contemplate.

And a second or third viewing works much the same. We intentionally ignore the coming scenes to savor the one taking place.

Now think of that in connection with an all powerful Deity.


Sorry I'm not following, what are you trying to say? I don't think anyone is implying God travels through time. Like I said, I don't understand what your trying to say. Please rephrase if you can.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


You are basing your conclusion with the bible
How can you use the bible teachings as proof that God doesn't exist when you don't believe in the bible
You need to do better than that my friend.


Preterist



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by NGC2736
Not that I'm stating an opinion for or against God, in any of His guises, but I can think of a way right off that undoes your logical construct.

Have you ever watched a movie about something you didn't really believe? You suspended belief while you watched, you "got into" the performance, and ignore the fact that time travel raises so many paradoxes that it's headache inducing to contemplate.

And a second or third viewing works much the same. We intentionally ignore the coming scenes to savor the one taking place.

Now think of that in connection with an all powerful Deity.



Sorry you lost me with this one....



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


How does that prove that a higher power/prime mover/god does not exist?
Even if you had been able to prove your point which is kinda flimsy and ignores the possibility that such a being would knowingly keep itself in the dark as to out comes.

Once again, just because you CAN do anything does that mean you SHOULD do anything?

But I digress, if you had proven your point the only thing you'd have proven is that such a being is not omnipotent. Not that it doesn't exist.

But I think you like those of your ilk here aren't trying to prove or disprove anything, just "preach to the choir" as most of your arguments are rather flimsy. So lacking any sort of undeniable proof go at it with gusto to hide that fact.



[edit on 20-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Solarskye
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


You are basing your conclusion with the bible
How can you use the bible teachings as proof that God doesn't exist when you don't believe in the bible
You need to do better than that my friend.


Preterist



No, i never once stated my conclusion is based on the bible. Islam (Allah) also believe in an all knowing all powerful God. I could name alot more god's along the lines.

Care to refute what i wrote?

Peace CR



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


It's interesting to see, I don't think some of them realize that any "proof" that they could offer rests on the belief that they would know what an all-knowing god would or wouldn't do.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by ThePiemaker
 


It's like the "Can gawd create a rock that he couldn't lift?"
I mean crap...
WHY would such an entity bother with that anyway?

But yea, they want to back their beliefs as "truth" with very little proof to their stance.
So they rely on such silliness as this..


[edit on 20-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by Conspiracy Realist
 


How does that prove that a higher power/prime mover/god does not exist?
Even if you had been able to prove your point which is kinda flimsy and ignores the possibility that such a being would knowingly keep itself in the dark as to out comes.

Once again, just because you CAN do anything does that mean you SHOULD do anything?

But I digress, if you had proven your point the only thing you'd have proven is that such a being is not omnipotent. Not that it doesn't exist.

But I think you like those of your ilk here aren't trying to prove or disprove anything, just "preach to the choir" as most of your arguments are rather flimsy. So lacking any sort of undeniable proof go at it with gusto to hide that fact.



[edit on 20-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]


Well Theists (judging by your answer - YOURSELF) say their God exists. The onus of proof lies with the Theist.

Atheists do not have to disprove because we have not made the claim that a "god" exists. The onus of proof is on you.

Please produce some sort of evidence or proof for the existence of your "god"?

Peace

CR



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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The problem with anyone making the claim that supposedly proves the existance/nonexistance of God is that it's subjective. Just as ones man's junk is another's treasure, one mans miracle is another man's luck.
Speaking for myself, I can come up with an essay on why I believe God exists, and why I believe he DOESN'T exist,
So the short and sweet answer to God's existance is based entirly on a person's beliefs, which, generally speaking, no amount of logic can actually overcome.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by ThePiemaker
 


It's like the "Can gawd create a rock that he couldn't lift?"
I mean crap...
WHY would such an entity bother with that anyway?

But yea, they want to back their beliefs as "truth" with very little proof to their stance.
So they rely on such silliness as this..


[edit on 20-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]


Whats silly is believing in an entity that:

#1 - Cannnot be proved

#2 - Cannot be seen

#3 - We humans do not know what "GOD" is

Science is committed to understanding the world around us, and most, if not all of it’s phenomena through studying, testing, and observation. Science admits we don’t know everything about the world around us and is constantly searching for ’truth’,and not "the truth".

Religion on the other hand, BELIEVES IT HAS ALREADY FOUND THE TRUTH! Nothing else to understand or investigate. Religion believes it knows the truth already! And the truth is GOD. Period. God through Jesus Christ, Mohammad, Krishna, Santa Claus or whatever god in general. That’s the difference between religion and science, they are mutually exclusive.

Science uses methods of observations and experimentations to find things out, religions already knows. What created everything around us? We dont know. Ask a religionists....What caused everything around us? GOD! God caused everything around us, he created it, he’s the father! "You wanna show how that happened"? Read the bible, Quran etc! Hands down, end of discussion! Now can you see the arrogance and ignorance in the statements made? One is humble and admits there is a lack of knowledge and more to be found out, and the other parades around proclaiming to already know the truth and that all the knowledge you will EVER NEED is in 1 book. It doesn’t matter which religion you choose, they all proclaim the truth to be in 1 BOOK; the book that tells they’re religious story.

Peace



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Realist
Care to refute what i wrote?


I'm not refuting it, I'm just saying you're trying to use proof from things you yourself don't believe in. And Adam & Eve, the snake, fruit & sin sure sound like it comes from the bible.

I'm not a theist or a bible believer but your take on the whole thing is your opinion so have at it. It's fun to sit back and read religious debates. I think everything in the bible was written for that era at that time not our time now. That's why I gave you that link to read.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by Solarskye

Originally posted by Conspiracy Realist
Care to refute what i wrote?


I'm not refuting it, I'm just saying you're trying to use proof from things you yourself don't believe in. And Adam & Eve, the snake, fruit & sin sure sound like it comes from the bible.

I'm not a theist or a bible believer but your take on the whole thing is your opinion so have at it. It's fun to sit back and read religious debates. I think everything in the bible was written for that era at that time not our time now. That's why I gave you that link to read.


You do realize that the "Adam and Eve" story is also stated in other religous books such as the Koran (quran).

Looking at the link, and reading the first line of the section "what we believe" it states:

"We believe in only One True God, who has revealed Himself in Three Divine Persons (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)"

I read the rest, but what am i supposed to get out of this website that i havnt heard about before?



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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For those that found me obtuse, I'll elaborate. Bear in mind, for me this is nothing more than an exercise in logic, and I have no vested interest in proving anything for or against any deity.

If I can suspend belief enough to watch a time travel movie, knowing all the complications the actual doing of such might entail, then is it not reasonable that a deity, with an awful big brain to go with the rest of the needed attributes, couldn't do it even better than me? He should, being all powerful, be able to completely and totally ignore certain things.

Now just because he knows the ending, doesn't mean he has no desire to see the play. And being all powerful, as I discussed above, (s)he can do a perfect job of it. Completely forget the plot, the actors and the ending. Just like a human watching a really good show they had seen before, or read the book about.

So there is a logical basis to the idea, using just what we know of the limited intelligence of humans, that God is entertained by us. He is enjoying the performance of Good and Evil. For all we can tell, he may be all 6 billion+ actors, too.

You see, whatever limitations you seek to put on monkeys or Gods or orchids, only shows the limitations of the human himself. Concepts of eternal mysteries require an eternal mind, which none of us posses. (And yes, I'm sure that in eternity, even orchids would do some amazing things.)

But as I said, I'm not contending truth about any god here, just pointing out that this thread has a lot of running room. One person has already said case closed. As long as the discussion is about a concept greater/larger than our minds can wrap around, the case will always be open.

And I'm now off to speak at the Temple of the Splintered Director.

[edit on 20-4-2008 by NGC2736]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant

It's like the "Can gawd create a rock that he couldn't lift?"
I mean crap...
WHY would such an entity bother with that anyway?

But yea, they want to back their beliefs as "truth" with very little proof to their stance.
So they rely on such silliness as this..


[edit on 20-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]


And you are basing your beliefs as "truth" with no proof. Only difference is I am basing my beliefs on facts. Facts is there is no proof a God does exist. If I said flying fireball breathing dragons existed you would want some proof, but if I said they didn't exist, no proof is needed.

If you could prove to me God exists I would accept him.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Actually case is closed. Why get into an argument with someone who's mind is made up? I just gave you something to read and you read one sentence and was done with it. I prefer to read everthing and then make my decision. Unfortunately I'm still wondering and searching for those answers too.



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