MMA, Stupid people and unchecked violence in America

I’ve been an ardent fan of mma (mixed martial arts) for years. Since the early 1990s this sport has grown by leaps helped in part by the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) Pride fighting, K1 and other organizations. Although I love watching, I believe this craze is having a profoundly negative effect on an already brutal society. In my opinion, there are far too many insecure, dim-witted, directionless males in America who seem unnaturally obsessed with trying to prove their manliness. And to have shows like ‘The Ultimate Fighter, and ‘Fight Night Live’ which glorifies violence, and makes heroes out of nobodies for their ability to hurt others thrust upon these fragile minds watching at home equals big trouble.

I’ve researched the causes of violent behavior and acts of aggression by the general public at great length in hopes of making a documentary on the subject. While my project was never finished two of my major concerns continue:

#1. Although random acts of violence are not new or exclusive to America, they are a growing problem. Today more than ever it seems nearly every baggy panted kid in the city, every average joe whose had a couple of drinks and gets irked by somebody else, suddenly thinks he’s a ufc star and wants to showcase his talents on the streets or in the barroom (especially when he thinks he can easily win a fight and get away with it.) Moreover, if he has a couple of friends willing to back him up, lookout! It can be impossible to extinguish the rage. Just about anyone can wind up a victim, you just need to look at someone wrong, say the wrong thing, or appear physically or mentally weak and you can wind-up seriously injured or dead.

#2 Having witnessed many barroom brawls and street fights in my day, I see a disturbing trend as of late: nowadays it seems after a victim has been knocked unconscious he often receives an additional five minutes of kicks and punches to the head by his attacker. Meanwhile the assaulter’s friends cheer him on and even join in. It is like a moment in time the winner of the fight wants to relish and share with the world so he can be immortalized by his friends and be thought of as a real tough guy.

As much as I love watching mma on TV, I do not have faith that my fellow man is mentally equipped to deal with it. With all the money these organizations make I think they should put a slice of the pot toward teaching Americans to keep the fights in the ring. In addition, I think their should be greater punishments than currently exists for the thugs who start street fights, and even greater punishments for people who continue beating on other people who are already unconscious.

Obviously, this epidemic is not limited to just males as we have all see by recent troubling events committed by little teenybopper girls. Crazy stuff. There are even grown women who will now go for a double leg takedown and try and ground and pound another woman with little provocation.
Though it would be somewhat hypocritical for me to talk about aggression in women, as nothing would give me more pleasure than to be pummeled by a jaw-droppingly attractive woman for hours, but that‘s getting off topic.

Your thought? I’ll be gone for a bit so I won’t be able to respond.


edit: just removing all caps from the title

[edit on 22-4-2008 by chissler]

This is a thought that I think is more received than it should be, and I'll explain why I feel it shouldn't.

As a fellow MMA fan, and as a fan who was just at the live UFC 83 event this past weekend, I can say that as loud and as crazy as the fan base was on that night, there wasn't a fight, argument, or act of delinquency visible from where I was at. The same city and same venue held game seven of the first round of the hockey playoffs last night, and after the game the city had a riot. Five police cars were set on fire and countless people arrested.

After the MMA event, nothing happened. After a hockey game, riots!

How many times did the winning city of the Stanley Cup, Super Bowl, World Series, etc., turn the city upside down and riot late into the hours? How many times has a city hosting an MMA event led to a riot? I haven't heard of any.

MMA fans are faced with an unjust stereotype and I think history indicates how unjust it is. This weekend is a perfect example. Saturday night after the UFC, nothing. Monday night after the hockey game, riots.

reply to post by chissler



Of course the crowds don’t go immediately into the streets after a ufc match and start arm-barring each other. (although plenty of fights have broken out during and after MMA matches) This kind of violent entertainment stays with vulnerable minds for months, until they’re drunk with their buddies and run into some loser they think they can apply their new found moves on outside a club. It’s usually the smallest most insecure male in the pack who wants to make a name for himself. I’m not about banning MMA. But we live in an increasingly violent society and unlike the mainstream media who loves talking about how smart Americans are so they can keep leading the stupid, I feel many of us are not, and they are ruining it for the true MMA fans. The organization makes tons of cash, can they just use a fraction of it for encouraging people to keep it in the ring. It would help their public image.

Do you feel the same about football, boxing, etc.?

MMA doesn't promote any violence any more than the aforementioned. MMA, unlike any of the other sports, hasn't led to the death or paralysis of one of it's participants. MMA, unlike any of the aforementioned, has referees that are extremely proactive in maintaining the health and safety of it's fighters.

And why this isolated point of view to characterize Americans?

MMA is huge all over the world. I am a Canadian who just attended the biggest MMA event in history, and it was in Canada. MMA isn't an "American thing".

I don't think you're looking at this issue with the clarity and neutrality that you suspect.

MMA and "unchecked violence" are as polar opposites as hot and cold, or hard and soft.

reply to post by chissler


MMA promotes more violence that replicates an actual street fight. I’m not so sure about zero deaths in the ring during MMA matches? Referees that are extremely proactive? I saw a guy get punched several times in the face during the last ufc fight night after he was already unconscious. It’s only a matter of time until there’s a death if there hasn‘t been yet. Why characterize American? If you read my post you would see I said “violence is not exclusive to America.” I live in America I write about what I see, maybe if I lived in Canada I’d write about knitting and old Wayne Gretzky videos. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree cause I don‘t want to waste anymore time arguing about what‘s pretty obvious to most people.

Because something is clear to yourself, doesn't mean it is "clear" to everyone else.

You speak of a sport that, in my opinion, you do not know a whole lot about. The previous fight night you speak of, where a guy was punched in the face several times while unconscious? Which fight? I watched the same event and there was huge controversy over how many quick stoppages their were. The Houston Alexander fight and the Karo Parysian fight were all labeled as quick stoppages and official Steve Mazzagatti took a lot of heat for it.

This "late stoppage" you speak of.. I'm interested which fight.

The problem with MMA is that it is an easy scapegoat for unjust labels, and unless someone truly understands the sport.. the label may seem justified.

But it's not.

The UFC today isn't what Pride was recently, or what UFC was years ago. Rules were implemented and standards applied for a reason.

MMA is nothing like a street fight, and by saying it is.. I think your indicating that your expressing an opinion in opposition on a matter that you really haven't taken the time to consider.

reply to post by chissler


Have you been hit in the head by Anthony Johnson? You’re not even arguing with me on the crux of my message. You keep trying to defend the ufc by using the same talking points the ufc uses to fend off criticism? I know an effeminate male like that, always looking to score brownie points with what he perceives as the macho internet crowd so he can finally be accepted.
You sound brainwashed. I like the ufc, I like MMA, but it is what it is and it effects people more than you think. And it isn't as safe as you claim. All I want is to have the ufc invest just a slice of the millions they make into ads encouraging people to keep fights in the ring????


[edit on 23-4-2008 by sexysadie]

I post here to engage you on a subject matter that I find interesting, and I do so in a friendly manner. We may disagree, but it isn't anything more than that. I know where you are coming from and I completely see it as a legitimate belief. I just happen to disagree.

But if you watch any of the Ultimate Fighter, you will see that Dana White tosses anyone off of the show that presents himself as a punk and/or a street fighter. He doesn't want "tough punks" that come across as bullies.

He wants athletes.

I'm not sure what they invest, but I do believe that he is working on bringing the image you speak of to the forefront of MMA.

reply to post by chissler


Athletes? Hmm, I guess things have changed since the last time I watched - back when you could get hosed as you slept , when the tuffers were breaking down doors and destroying furniture, talking like punks do to each other, crapping in the upper deck of a toilet and fist fighting out of the ring .

While I understand your point, I simply don't think that public exposure, desire for, or the "glorification" of violence is really all the much more preventively than it ever has been and really speaks to the inherent nature of mankind.

While we like to pretend we are civilized (some even embrace it like a safety blanket), the reality of the world is that we are basically the same sort of people we have always been, sans advancing technology.

Even a cursory glance at the events resulting from Katrina will tell you all you really need to know about the reality of men, the base of which is that some men create and some destroy generally.

MMA is simply more of the same, an extension of some of humanities elements by a current name.

I normally try not to complain about the way the world is, merely to work within it. This seems like a non-issue to me.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


I don’t think that word... ‘preventively’ means what you think it does.
I think television has a much bigger influence over the minds of the masses than you might want to believe. There’s a reason why corporations pay billions of dollars each year running tricky little commercials. There’s a reason political pundits analyze the news for you. What we’re allowed is ape fighting and American idol. Just like alcohol is not good for many people, exposure to violence isn’t good for stupid people. There’s a lot of stupid people in the world. No doubt time will prove my point.

reply to post by sexysadie


Pardon me, that was not the word in my head as I wrote it. It should read "prevalent", meaning violence, stupidity, and other such things are generally in equal proportion now as they always have been.

You seem to think, or at least your thoughts would indicate, that you feel we are fed only certain information and other information has been withheld.

While this may be true, I really don't think you have to twist the arm of most humans to engage in mind-numbing idiocy for no real purpose. If you want to lay the cause on anything, I'd lay it on both parents working more often than not, financial issues, constant family structure flux, social angst, etc, etc, moreso than a concerted effort only to feed us mindlessness (which by the way, the people ask for and reward with money by the truck full).

People are the way they are, and I've learned a long time ago that the number 1 rule of Sociology, is that "People are stupid".

You can't prevent it, legislate it, educate it, or limit it because many simply don't care and never will.

Here's a test. Ask 10 random people (the best cross-section being those you don't know that you meet in public) what was the last book they read.

If you want to get crazy with it, ask what the last substantial book they read was. Then ask why.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


I agree with much of what you’re saying. I’m not interested in banning mma , I love watching. I just think there needs to be some encouragement from the source to remind people to keep it in the ring. You couldn’t give a group of cavemen a submachine gun, show them how to use it and tell them to be nice with it. Similarly you can’t show a violent, stupid society martial arts submission moves that are capable of killing people and expect them to use it in good conscience. When you’re having a guillotine choke applied to you by some loser in a street fight, he won’t be letting go the second you go out. You’ll be unconscious and he and his friends will likely stomp on your head for fifteen minutes. People are seriously injured and killed by this type stuff every day. Not that I think mma works well in street fights, but still people use what they think works and a submission against some kid with no mma experience can be deadly.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by sexysadie]

Sounds like the ol' gun argument to me, but hey, that's another day.

What do you propose?

All this problem and no solution tends to get bothersome after a while.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


You said “All this problem and no solution tends to get bothersome after a while.”

I think you’re probably kidding, but in case you’re really not, here are four points I made earlier in this very same thread -

#1. “With all the money these organizations make I think they should put a slice of the pot toward teaching Americans to keep the fights in the ring. In addition, I think their should be greater punishments than currently exists for the thugs who start street fights, and even greater punishments for people who continue beating on other people who are already unconscious.” (Greater punishments by law enforcement)

#2. “The organization makes tons of cash, can they just use a fraction of it for encouraging people to keep it in the ring. It would help their public image.”
(It might not cost them anything except time if they run it simultaneously with their show.
They run an ad reminding people to vote.)


#3 “All I want is to have the ufc invest just a slice of the millions they make into ads encouraging people to keep fights in the ring???? “

#4 “I just think there needs to be some encouragement from the source to remind people to keep it in the ring.”

Nah, not really kidding. I just didn't see much in the way of solution.

As to your 4 points, they are really just the same point four times, not to be rude.

When push comes to shove, maybe they should do it, but I truly doubt they will unless someone encourages them using their own rights.

When push comes to shove, it would probably be a better use of time to make a website and/or start a group. If you want something done, do it yourself. That is the idea of America after all, isn't it?

I'm just glad you didn't say we should ask the government to do something we can more easily, more cheaply, and more effectively do privately.

So, what are YOU going to do? That might be a more accurate question.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


Yes I know my solution is the same point four times in a row. I was emphasizing that I mentioned it four times earlier in the thread. I personally should be the one who handles this ? It’s amazing how many of the worlds problems I'm trying to solve individually right now. And I'm not even a celebrity or a millionaire. For the record, I’m busy handling bigger human issues, but I think just mentioning the matter helps bring the topic to the forefront.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by sexysadie]

I'm not saying you should handle this, but if you feel it's an issue, don't expect others to do anything you might be unwilling to do.

I understand about bringing it to the forefront, but honestly, this is a non-issue. I'm going to venture a guess that you are not a guy, which (generally) goes far in explaining the position on these types of things.

If you're a dude, well, nothing I can do to help you.

you know i have also gotten into the MMA world for about 2-3 years. I started training and competing and working out and actually having going to state championships, got really into it. But after doing this after awhile it was plain to see how the whole concept of the MMA world has to do a lot with the ego. that was one of the major aspects that directed me to go away from MMA is that everyone has to prove something to someone and no one has compassion in that aspect. After breaking my collar-bone during training. It gave me time to think while recovering for a couple months. I came to the conclusion that MMA is not worth it mentally or physically, and resorted back to doing the other arts that i was doing before i got into the MMA craze.

Now days i am against the MMA craziness that is going on and i feel that it is just a brute sport on who can beat who, which martial arts is not about.

of course this is just my opinion and experiences too


[edit on 28-4-2008 by bushidomason]

reply to post by KrazyJethro


No, I'm a dude. I'm just not into nut-hugging like so many male mma fans, or just males in general these days. I'm confident enough with myself that I don't need to glom on to what I think other guys like, so I can fit in and gain their respect. Honsetly that sounds like you. People go to war on the backs of people like that.