Violence and pornography

I don't know about all this "desensitized" talk.

All I can say is that a lot of these people felt these urges or whatever, but were too afraid to act on them or talk about them.

If you hear about gay/lesbians in their younger years, a lot of the time they're confused because they think they're the only one who feels this stuff. Once they realize that they're not the only one they feel the freedom to explore it.

All of these acts and fetishes have been around since the beginning of time.. look up Ancient Egypt and Greek hieroglyphics [sp?]


... besides.. choking girls is fun.. jk.

For everyone who says that violence in movies doesn't matter because it's fiction, that it's nonsensical because no one is actually being hurt and the people being depicted are characters, not real people with families, I have this to ask you:

How do you feel about viewing child sex videos that are animated or cgi or made with adult models made up to look like children? It's the same thing. It's not real. But does that make it ok to you? Does the fact that no children are being harmed in the making of these videos mean it's ok to watch and get off on them? If you think that gratuitous violence in movies like Hostel is inconsequential to viewers then I think I know what your answer will be.

Originally posted by jbondo
What disturbs me more than the acts is the pleasure gotten by the people watching it. In a world where "Saw" movies make millions, you know something is definitely and severely wrong. The more you remove God from society the more you will see this mentality take over. Yes, evil is necessary but it's not something to be embraced, it's something to learn from.

What a load of rubbish, sorry but god has nothing to do with it, the bible is full of horrible acts commited by god so lets not blaim it on that shall we.

Horror movies are nothing mre than people embracing their like of being scared ina controlled enviroment, the movies raise endorphins, adrenalinea nd other chemicals without any of the major stress hormones, it produces the exhileration out ancestors would have gotten froma hunt or being chased. It's perfectly natural.

You cannot compare a horror movie with the real life videos people get off on. Today it seems that people aren't able to disconnect reality and a video they see online. They don't see that person as a person, they see a video, it's a strange mentality.

Ther has however always been violence throughout human culture and i don't udnerstand why people can't see it. I listed above just a small snippet of human spectator violence so i'll try it again. Roman gladiators, greek wrestling, bare knuckle fighting, dog fighting, cock fighting, martial arts tournaments (full contact), jousting etc etc.

Originally posted by sc2099
How do you feel about viewing child sex videos that are animated or cgi or made with adult models made up to look like children? It's the same thing. It's not real. But does that make it ok to you? Does the fact that no children are being harmed in the making of these videos mean it's ok to watch and get off on them? If you think that gratuitous violence in movies like Hostel is inconsequential to viewers then I think I know what your answer will be.

I'm not sure about the above comment i've been thinking that one over lately, but lets stick to the horror movies. I dislike this new cinema of gore for gores sake, but i think it attracts people with that mentality, they have that kind of brain already. It's not the movies fault, it just appeals to the already twisted audience.

ImaginaryReality1984, i think you are taking that horror movies thing abit too far. its just a movie, its art, its stupid but its still art. plus i think alot of people like these hostel/saw films who happen to be normal, i dont personally because its bad cinema and not entertaining for me but oddly i know girls who would watch nothing else but that, which i gotta say is better than watching a chick flick.

Okay, thanks again for the various replies on here so far...

To sum things up, I'm talking about REAL video's of injuries, violence, brutal sex etc...

NOT horror films.

People who REALLY get hurt.

I'm talking about the way people disassociate with those people who are dying and as someone mentioned, form no real difference with the person and the pixels.

Of course history is filled with violence, inquisiyions, witch burnings, torture, blood sports etc.... but that's why we BANNED them, at one point in the human line, we stumbled across something called morals... and now only in some countries public executions are continued.

Don't get me wrong here, without seeming like a hypocrite, I've got a couple of violent computer games, a decent collection of horror films and what-not, but as of late, some games are getting MORE violent for violence sake, films are getting nastier and nastier, losing most elements of rational plot lines, instead just bombarding the audience with gruesome scenes of torture and murder.

One member pointed out that obviously some hardcore fetish films are designed with mutual content (which is fair enough, I'm not going to judge anybodys sexual preference within reason), but some like FAKE rape scenes are totally uncalled for, to the eyes of a confused twelve year old boy who find it on the net, how is he to know it's fake?

Will he grow up thinking forced sex is right?

What if that young kid goes and watches a series of execution videos and then reads the comments below the video with idiots saying things like 'LOL I FOUND IT FUNNY!!!!' , would that not affect him?


Oh and to the member who asked me what my response was to the guy who showed me the sick videos, well a good few of us decided he was a wierdo and kept away from him, choosing not to associate with his perversions.

I really dont understand the fake rape scenes thing, is it rape or not? is that porn anyway? I think they censor that stuff because its bad influence.

Is there really any reason to care? You get disgusted, but never offer any reason for people to care about the people they see getting hurt.

Morals are good to have. I think sometimes they're used against people, though. Bad men count on Good men being unable to cross certain lines. The law might be one of those lines. The law works to keep men in place. While some men adhere to the law, Bad men know they are above the law.

The original poster's totally overreacting. I love watching the extreme stuff because the more traditional stuff is a bore. After all, the point of pornography is to provide people with fantasy they probably don't get many chances to act out. If it weren't for the violent porn, people would have to go out and commit violent sex acts on people who may or may not want that done to them. And just because censorship regulations or whatever have been loosened in recent years, that doesn't mean people are becoming more depraved or whatever.

It's just that now people are able to produce what was always in their heads. Have you ever read the books Marquis de Sade put out in the 18th century? Some of the acts depicted in Juliette or 120 Days of Sodom have probably never even been replicated on film or maybe even in real life, and those were written over 200 years ago.

As far as the Faces of Death stuff and all that, I don't think there's anything odd about people wanting to see death up close and personal. We're going to have to experience it eventually, so we're all fascinated by the whole process. Human beings have always been death-obsessed. Why do you think gladitorial contests were so popular? Why do people rubberneck when they see a nasty wreck on the freeway?

Originally posted by jbondo
What disturbs me more than the acts is the pleasure gotten by the people watching it. In a world where "Saw" movies make millions, you know something is definitely and severely wrong. The more you remove God from society the more you will see this mentality take over. Yes, evil is necessary but it's not something to be embraced, it's something to learn from.

I also believe it's completely different for a cop or a rescue worker to laugh or make jokes to maintain sanity and control as apposed to someone that just gets off on death, torture and destruction.

I could go on and on about my beliefs but I think enough has been said. Remove God and remove morality, love and caring for others.

Maybe you've forgotten, but the Bible's full of violence, torture, murder and rape. God's responsible for a lot of it. At least fans of Saw movies don't base their lives around the Jigsaw Killer's message.

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
Morals are good to have. I think sometimes they're used against people, though. Bad men count on Good men being unable to cross certain lines. The law might be one of those lines. The law works to keep men in place. While some men adhere to the law, Bad men know they are above the law.

This life is for proving one no longer wishes to be a rat. The bad seem like they win, get their way, or get away with their actions. Full payment for their transgressions often comes after death. But payment in full is the law of the universe. Those who are good even while seeming to lose in this world are true winners on the level of the soul. Those who are bad and seem to win are losing more than they can even imagine. Such is the way in this world.

How do I know this is true? The same way everyone does. We all know it when we get humble and honest enough with ourselves.

reply to post by ThePiemaker


The reason to care is humanity. It is our empathy that makes us human. It's not about morals or values, it's about caring. Being able to empathize with others is a human trait, if you lose your ability to care, then you lose your humanity.

reply to post by zenfish


that's what a lot of religions say. Do good things and be rewarded. But if that's the case, why does nature dictate that one species destroy another for it's survival? How are we supposed to know our purpose is to be good when nature dictates that destroying others is beneficial?

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by zenfish

 

How are we supposed to know our purpose is to be good when nature dictates that destroying others is beneficial?

As we see everyone as an individual and not just part of a pack or hive, you are assuming that we are the same as an animal with no sense of 'I am'.

Nature dictates to animals, humans have evolved away from these animalistic urges of watching people suffer. Well, most of us have, there are exceptions, people with mental difficulties that like to watch snuff movies or torture little cute animals seem to have not evolved at all.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I don't understand why people are so shocked it really is nothing new. thousands of thousands of Roman citizens used to get thier entertainment watching people fight to the death or watch people get mauled by lions. In European countries and in the US up to the late 1800's hangings and torture were also spectator sports, events that would draw hundreds and thousands of people. What is so wrong with what is going on today as long the people watching realize just what it is they are watching? There are so many shelterd people in the world today who are offended by such things and it is really easy for them NOT to watch these things if it disturbs them.

Originally posted by Stumpy1
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

thousands of thousands of Roman citizens used to get thier entertainment watching people fight to the death or watch people get mauled by lions.

We also thought it was a good idea to marry 11 and 12 yr old girls off and let them have kids...

Just because it was acceptable a couple of thousand years ago, does not mean it is OK now.

Excellent post, it deserves more stars and flags but I'll tell you why it's lacking: because we are all guilty, and the first reaction is denial.

People don't want to admit that they enjoy 'using' eachother for selfish gratification, but we really do. The world of give and take sexual lifestyle, over indulgence in everything etc. is a sign of bohemian barbarian society ... like ancient Rome.

Yes, there are serious implications for our society from our obsession with sex and violence. These lower dimensional hot-buttons are being pressed all the time and it is mankind's responsibility to evolve and stop being manipulated.

There is no happiness in a life lived through the red senses. The red senses are for animals , but we are more than that. We utilize the red senses when needed to propel ourself through life with purpose, not to over-indulge and throw our lives away. But look at what society encourages people to do. It's luciferianism.

And as victims of it, we are all in denial.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
What a load of rubbish, sorry but god has nothing to do with it, the bible is full of horrible acts commited by god so lets not blaim it on that shall we.

Really? God murders people? God creates societies and manipulates them into warfare?

That's interesting. Because I heard God is not the decider of our actions. We have a little something called free will. And when other people manipulate our free will, we can be easily controlled.

So it's GOD's fault that we can't control our actions eh? It's God's fault that we allow ourselves to be lead down bad paths?

Last time I checked, all the atheists and anti-religious anti-spiritualists etc. didn't believe in God...

I find it funny that they so often blame God for the actions of societies which manipulated organized religion. Really helps denote their lack of understanding, eh?

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by zenfish

 

Hi Piemaker,

Just to be clear, I like what you have to say. I'm not arguing with you but using your words as a jumping platform to express my opinions.

that's what a lot of religions say. Do good things and be rewarded. But if that's the case, why does nature dictate that one species destroy another for it's survival? How are we supposed to know our purpose is to be good when nature dictates that destroying others is beneficial?

Because when you get humbled and honest with yourself, you know it is. All you have to do is ask how you want to be treated. Do you want to be, or those you care about, ripped off, raped, humiliated, lied to, cheated, degraded, betrayed, overpowered, beaten, back stabbed, etc., etc.? No, of course not. Unless there is some serious psychological imbalance.

Discerning what is good or bad can be tricky. What is good in one situation is bad in another. But some stuff is blatently obvious - like gang raping a chic who doesn't want to be. To take pleasure in even witnessing such a thing is pretty much a guarantee that one is letting oneself be possessed by some low level forces in the human psyche and one's level of compassionate understanding is less than a dog's.

I don't know what is right and wrong in the animal kingdom, but the golden rule is a fairly solid guideline for humans, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Now passionate sex has its place, but in regards to violent degrading pornography, I find it disturbing and don't watch it. It also bothers me how the women in those pornos seem to actually enjoy being treated like #. Their weird dysfunctional need to be dominated and humiliated is equally to blame for the promotion of this behavior. My only consolation in this matter is my intuitive belief that the rats and dogs can choose that if they wish, but they will pay in shame, pain and sorrow after death. Possibly before. Maybe in another life.

As humans we have freewill, unlike pigs in heat. I don't think I'll have any regrets about deciding not to go down that road on my deathbed - which is another solid way of determining that the purpose of life is to be good to oneself and each other.

Wow, glad to see there are so many wise posters on this forum.