Violence and pornography

reply to post by thehumbleone


well i don't belive in god- besides the point-but i do believe in what is right and wrong. i'm just saying who is to impose judgment on a different society because they think differently than us.
so should we go into borneo amazon etc annd * with thier culture because we say it isn't our way? but they have been doing it for 1000's of years? works for them so who are we to say it is wrong?

reply to post by mr-lizard


Yeah, it bugs the hell out of me too.

I think the best way I can describe it was put forth by a guy who used to post on ATS named sleeper. He said this world is place designed to separate the rats and the dogs from those who no longer wish to be rats and dogs. Violent porn is for the rats and dogs. Both the women and the men. It's up to each one of us to chose the path we are taking. Do we want to continue to be sent to places like earth where the rats and dogs flourish, or do we chose to live with integrity amidst rats and dogs and free ourselves from ever having to be sent back here? It's up to each of us to decide what we want to be. It's sad to see so much vile degradation promoted, but then, earth is where they send the rats and the dogs. I'm opting to get the hell out of here and not participate in that low level crap.

I'd say the only positive thing about that stuff on the net is that it brings to consciousness just how screwed up many people are. It was around before the net, but not so obviously in one's face.

reply to post by bigfoot1212


You're talking about cultural relativism? From what I understand, most cultures in the world agree that murder, robbery etc. is wrong. It's the punishment that they impose on such offenses that differs.

Is their way of punishment the right way? Beats me, I'm just an ethnocentric American.

however I will say one thing, a lot of crap that people get away with in this country would would result in hanging or death in another country.

reply to post by thehumbleone


i agree with you. but each culture has their own beliefs. some are cannabalistic- should we nuke them because they have different beliefs than us and find it sickening?

reply to post by bigfoot1212


Which are cannibalistic?

reply to post by bigfoot1212


Doing something that's wrong for 1000's of years doesn't make it right.

Just because it works for them doesn't mean it's right. Evil works just fine for some people.

God... interesting. So is there no hope for those who don't believe in a God to do the right thing when they can just as easily do the wrong thing, and be better off for doing the wrong thing?

some in the amazon and borneo and new guinea

My thoughts would be it is an overall part of the 'agenda'.

That agenda is to show torture, cruelty and depravity to a flooded point that we become desensitized, and accustomed to it. Why? So 'they' can get away with more and more atrocities. Why again? So we then become enslaved in a prehistoric rhelm where our "masters" can be seen as forgiving, and godlike. Why? Well that answer lies within the whole conspiracy it is: the illuminati and their NWO agenda.

These 'people' see you and I as fodder, cattle, sheep, lower beings. They thrive in their environment of hate and fear, they want us to ask them for help, and make it so we are safe, and feel secure.

One guy at my work showed me a very explicit sex crime that looked like force rape, and assult and battery on a female that looked horrified, one can only imagine what the outcome was from this 2 minute teaser. He and his friends were laughing at it, I was disgusted. I asked if he would show his girlfriend, "NO WAY" was his response. He didn't seem to get that was a rape (looked like from a Bosnian/Serbian war era in the 90's), and looked at me as though I had the problem. And I certainly did. I berated him and hid friends telling them they are cowards, and what would they think if this happened to thier mothers or sisters. Sick.

Hollywood is a HUGE part of this agenda, one only has to see the latest crap they have on offer: torture, snuff, extreme S&M acts, gore galore, and so on. One way to stem the flow, is to not see these exploiting "movies" and vote with your wallet.

I am glad there are people out there such as you guys, that I know will willingly spread thoughts such as these, and this is promising.

watchZEITGEISTnow

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by bigfoot1212

 

Just because it works for them doesn't mean it's right. Evil works just fine for some people.

Many are taking the easy/evil road straight to hell. Don't be fooled by their seemingly easy happy time of it.

I'm not particularly religious, but I do believe a hellish realm is waiting for all those who choose the road of rats and dogs. That's their choice.

reply to post by mr-lizard

Didn't get here till way after you left, but am replying with hopes that you will read this. First i'd like to say that it's uplifting to hear you that you are disgusted at the violence around us now. I myself can't understand either how people can enjoy watching anyone,or anything suffer, but you will make yourself crazy trying to figure it out, because it is not something that people like us will ever be able to understand. Hopefully you will never become desensitized to the suffering of others. I live in a big city with an enormous amount of violence, been here all my life and it still shocks and outrages me the things that people do to other people. I have to agree with the piemaker though, if you really don't like what you see, then do something to stop it. You may think that you can't, but you can. If you now or in the the future have children, teach them that it is not acceptable to make others suffer, to treat others as they would like to be treated, do not let it be commonplace for them to watch or listen to things that would desensitize them. You spoke of the things that these young punks do nowadays, join a group like big brothers or something along those lines and be a mentor to a young child that desprately needs one, in doing so you may be the one thing that prevents a young child from turning into one of those punks that has no value for the rights or feelings of another human being. Help a child feel valued, important, and worthy of being cared about, and he will grow up to value others and deem them to be worthy of his respect. There are things that you can do to try to change the direction that our society seems to be headed in. Just curious two years ago working in that plant with the guy runnin around showing the offensive videos to everyone,did you do anything to try to stop it? Did you tell him that you found it offensive, or report it to a superior and ask that he be made to stop, or did you sit back and do nothing?

Just a friendly reminder to stay focused on the questions asked in the original post, and to refrain from attacking other members opinions. We all have an opinion, and we should all respect everyone else's right to have them. If we didn't, ATS would indeed be a very boring place...

TheBorg
Forum Moderator

With reference to the OP, its a supply and demand.

The thing is, some people have fetishes, autoerotic asphyxiation (strangling/breath control during sex) which you pointed out, is but one of them
Some people like violence during sex, or violent sex because its animalistic and releases for them more pent up agression.
There are those whose partners dont want to participate in this, and will seek it out on the www to help satisfy this need.

I feel that as long as its between consenting adults (no matter how many) then its OK.

I remember watching a video called 'Faces of Death' in the late 80s and was appalled at it. By the end of it though I was laughing at the stupidity of the people. (one was where a guy who decided to try and 'encourage' a large alligator to move on by standing up in a small canoe and poking it with a big stick), I also read the Darwin Awards, which I find hilarious

Laughing at the Darwin Awards or the stupidity of other humans does not make you a bad person. Neither are you bad if you have a particular kink/fetish.
I dont consider myself a bad person or sick.

I may be naughty though!

[edit on 21-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

I think alot of this stuff is still embedded in our subconcious and part of our primal thoughts. If you think about it thoughout time humans have always been aggressive.

Granted back then there wasn't quite so many ideals on how society should act and I often think who pushes on us whats socially acceptable?

In the roman times people used to go and watch people fight for their lives in often very grusome fights. If you think about it as well it was only about 150 years ago or so that it was socially acceptable to marry 14 year old girls.

I think the violence thing is just part of us, however some of us have been more socially conditioned than others. I'm not saying if its right or wrong as my arguement here is why are there such major social changes through time and who begins these changes?

Please however don't think I agree with people being killed for fun or marrying kids I don't i'm just using these as examples.

@ Mr-Lizard, Your definatley not alone there mate.

I think you hit the nail on the head: "Fair enough, he was probably just desensitized to it, but more and more and more people are getting like this, desensitized... I'm seeing this pattern emerge around me"

Desensitized is the word.

Im only 21, but i know what you mean when it seems like society is becomming more and more depraved with each year that passes.
Ive had this conversation with mates of mine time and again, that whenever the subject of this sort of material comes up, say, were in Blockbuster and one of em wants to get out "Hostel", whenever i ask them if they are not disgusted by that sort of thing the same answer i ALWAYS get is,

"mate, its only a film......"

Or a game. Or a Youtube clip. I think western society teaches us, from the cradle, to dissaociate from the media we see. Government worrys about kids getting influenced to be violent by graphic computer games? B*llocks, its the fact that theyre NOT INFLUENCED thats the problem!

A woman getting gang raped by serbian paramilitarys on Youtube is about as disturbing to some people as if she was made of pixels and code.

We are divorced from everything on the west. We dont grow out own food, make our own clothes, hunt out own venison or defend our own houses.
In the industrialized world were so detached from the nitty-gritty aspects of life and human nature we see them only in the most superficial and abstract senses.

Grandtheft auto, hostel, Youtube, the Jeremy Kyle show

I think it depends how you want to look at it, i don't think it's new it's just we have a new way of making content available.

Years back we had romans killing people in spectacles (gladiators anyone?), the greeks had wrestling, there were witch burnings and bare fist fighting, cock fights, dog fights etc etc.

All were public spectacles, there is a part of society that involves people with very base needs. They aren't necessarily bad people or even violent themselves, they just have a need to satifsy and that need is filled now more easily than ever before.

I myself am just not into porn, it's just never done anything for me. However lots of people enjoy it, the want to see naked men and women has always been through society just take a look back! The acts that are protrayed aren't more violent, these acts have usually just been more private. Couples frm the beginning of time have engrossed themselves in all sorts of sex acts, the only difference now is that we're allowed to view it at leisure as the manacles of repression are removed from society.

Nothing should be taboo in my view as long as it doesn't hurt another person without their consent. If someone wants to get tied up and whipped as it gives them a thrill then who cares? As long as they want that and it oesn't breka any major laws. If someone wants to film it and show it to others who like it, then it's up to them, as long as it's consenting.

As for the ultra violent videos, well people used to go and view publis autopsies out of fascination, maybe that's what we're seeing. Most people i see watching these things are in a mix of horror and morbid curiosity, to see ourselves so easily broken.

As for the people you mentioned laughing at these videos, well i've seen that as well and it sickens me. These people are very detached from what they're seeing that's the whole issue. They don't relate that video to an actual person, merely an object. That isn't society that's the problem, it's a small group of sick minded individuals and it honestly worries me when i see someone laughing at someones head being cut off. I find it absolutely abhorent and i often wonder if these people are right in the head.

Should we ban this stuff? Well no i don't think so, i think of course we should remove it from sites where kids can see it (youtube for example) as it could seriously scar a young child.

Are we more violent as a whole? I don't think so, i just think we have easier access to things that many people have always wanted to see. As i listed above we've always had violent entertainment, now it's just easier to get.

EDIT

A very scare thing i once had happen was a friend of a friend showed me a video on his mobile phone. It was a man having his head hacked off, he played it to me and i asked him to stop half way through, he was smiling at me like he was on drugs. When i just looked at him in disgust he got very angry and almost violent. He thought that me not enjoying it was some kind of bad thing and maybe i thought i was better than him or something.

I never went near him again, he seemed like someone who could seriously crack and hurt people, that kind of person i think is rare, but they're out there. People are more desensitized i agree, but there is a cut off between real life and online videos for most people.

Remember that violent people will always gravitate towards violent media, but then again you have perfectly normal people who play a video game blowing someones head off and then go to work in a hospital saving lifes. It's down to the individual.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

mr-lizard, u r not old at all you said you were like 25 which is like of this generation. you are the ipod, internet, youtube generation. When i first read ur post i thought you were some old guy who wasn't aware of whats going on in the world. the thing is the world was always amused by violence fake or real, like WWE, action movies, stunts, S&M, rap music, teen fighting, etc. this is just humanity what is there to do, dont tell me you never picked on someone when you were in school. me from an early age i was bullied constantly and violence was something i had to adapt to and i remember when i was a kid i used to be such a wuss on the basis that i was non-violent and i didnt really get it because i didnt want to hurt anyone even if its in self defense. I thought of the human body as a very fragile being that the slightest mistake or hit can cripple its functionality. but i changed and trained as a boxer, which i was good at the time because i had so much rage in me.
and i cant really say how pornography is related to violence, porn shouldn't involve choking or that stuff but i guess producers are sort of competing with each other in that industry to see who can make the most degrading video. and apparently there is a market for it but what worries me is that kids might get the idea that is stuff is normal.

plus i used to be addicted to Rome tv show and it had lots of violence and gore and in a way it made me fantasize about being a Roman warrior, i guess there is part of me that wants to be in that kind of world were the strong survive and have no mercy for the weak. I really believe that today's society is desensitized to violence in general but it will always shock people when the see a dead body in the street, which is contradictory. what i think is really happening is the blurring of the line between fiction and reality. violence and media entertainment have molded to produce to us a world of surreality, where news and crisis become entertaining because they are real, meaning they transcended from being something we are accustomed to watch in a tv show into something real making it amusing. reality tv is a big part of it and i think maybe thats what porn is a reality tv of sorts since its not actually acting.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow

That agenda is to show torture, cruelty and depravity to a flooded point that we become desensitized, and accustomed to it. Why? So 'they' can get away with more and more atrocities. Why again? So we then become enslaved in a prehistoric rhelm where our "masters" can be seen as forgiving, and godlike. Why? Well that answer lies within the whole conspiracy it is: the illuminati and their NWO agenda.

thats how i feel about the master seem forgiving part and i dont deny the fact that i slightly support imperialism. im egyptian and my country was part of the british empire but i believe that no one else will ever care for us in the same way as the brits once did. my country now is ruled in an unfair manner and our pleas will forever go unheard so there goes our idiotic independence. sorry to go off topic: but recently an innocent college girl was abducted by the government for supporting a recent strike on facebook. no one heard of her again. and shes not the only one and what comes after is usually torture.

What disturbs me more than the acts is the pleasure gotten by the people watching it. In a world where "Saw" movies make millions, you know something is definitely and severely wrong. The more you remove God from society the more you will see this mentality take over. Yes, evil is necessary but it's not something to be embraced, it's something to learn from.

I also believe it's completely different for a cop or a rescue worker to laugh or make jokes to maintain sanity and control as apposed to someone that just gets off on death, torture and destruction.

I could go on and on about my beliefs but I think enough has been said. Remove God and remove morality, love and caring for others.

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Why I felt that way? Why not? It's natural for humans to be entertained by violence. Three stooges, jackass, Godfather, Sopranos, contact sports, mixed martial arts, hunting... violence = ratings.

I don't mind watching fake violence in a movie. because it is just that, fake.

But watching a few Snuff type movies myself, I find them quite disturbing for reasons stated above. Someone's Mother, Brother or Sister for example.

I find it more disturbing that that these types of videos have been produced, but, there is obviously a demand for it. I'm glad you have found a hobby where you can entertain your fantasies - hopefully it will keep you off the streets from entertaining your fantasies in real life.