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States move to ban hallucinogen salvia

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posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by leafdarking
I don't agree with banning it, but I do think there should be higher restrictions on salvia. It's possible to waltz into a head shop, show your ID and waltz back out with a large amount of salvia for fairly cheap. I've tried it twice, and the second time I had a horrible experience and wouldn't try it again. I also know several people who have had the same overwhelming, almost terrifying experience from a fairly low amount of salvia that I've had. I don't think a drug that pretty much incapacitates you and throws you into extremely vivid hallucinations in the blink of an eye should be so easy to get.
I don't think this is so much an issue of trying to take away our right to try what we want without government interference as it is trying to keep young kids from frying their mind and doing something extremely stupid, since that's what seems to happen on salvia.


I do agree, there should be better restrictions, namely on the concentrations. The stuff the kids in the videos are trying is probably 30x or 60x potency. That stuff knocks ya hard on one hit!

Salvia is meant to be smoked slowly, each hit taking you a bit "higher" (I use that loosely). It is not addictive, and seems to have the oppisite effect of tolerance... basically, if you smoke a couple times in one day, the last smoke will take you out of your mind on less, rather than having to take more to reach a similar desired effect. In this way, the abuse potential is limited to casual 'tripping'. Ask anyone else who smokes it if they would smoke it like they drink beer or smoke weed, and the answer (after much laughter) would be no.

A 60x potency salvia bong rip will make you trip for between 30 sec - 2 minutes, with the full effects wearing off after 15 minutes or less. The after effects seem to be akin to the feeling you get after getting really good news, or sometimes really bad news. This outcome is usually determined by your state of mind before taking the substance, as seems to be the case with any hallucinogen.




posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by Vanitas
reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 



Isn't that just sage (the most common, "garden" variety of Salvia)?
I mean, in the photograph.






sure it is...
but thats the scam.................. deluding people and selling
$30-50 'Salvia' plants on-line,
the previously taken dupes will perpetuate the Scam & Urban Legend--
of making people believe that 'Salvia' is a hallucinegenic plant,
so as to recover their foolish purchase(s).


think of Placebo Effect... or self induced tripping with this product...



think about it -> just Why hasn't a clandestine/'garage' Labratory
went ahead and fabricated a similar molecular drug as 'Salvia'....

Answer: its a bogus high ! something like smoking Banana Peels that the British singer 'Donovan' made a pop culture item...way back when....





Obviously you've never tried it. If you would like to I will send some to you free of charge and after you try it I want you to tell me that it's a placebo...lol No seriously I wouldn't do that to you because with your ego and mindset it would ruin you. please trust me when I tell you this that it a powerful plant. I thought we were supposed to DENY IGNORANCE here on ATS. We do that by providing proof, facts and personal experience , not by speculation or rumor. I will provide a link for you to educate yourself.

What is Salvia Divinorum ?



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 



Originally posted by die_another_day
Would anyone here like to see your child getting high on something that's completely legal?


Refined sugar, high fructose, sucrose, glucose, etc. Research the effects. They're not hallucinogenics, but they have effects on the human body that are consistent with defined drugs. People do become addicted to sugar. You know this. Behavioral changes are readily apparent and parents gleefully provide their children with candy because they haven't been told not to.

Anyway, here's a link that offers some insight into the debilitating effects of consuming refined and processed sugar.

Frankly, I think that banning natural substances is just legal scapegoating of society's problems. It's treating symptoms rather than curing root causes. An adult or child that commits suicide while inebriated or under the influence is unstable to a certain extent before having used any illegal or legal drug. Not everyone who trips on hallucinogens commits violent acts on themselves or others. In fact only a relatively small percentage do. I'm not saying there aren't any dangerous psychoactive substances that exist, there are. What I am saying is that if danger is the pretext that we use to illegalize any substance, then we should be honest about it for all intents and purposes, known substances, and causes of human instability. I do not agree that our society here in the US is being completely honest and responsible, unfortunately.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


This was a very interesting video I came across on youtube. Its in regards to Hemp, but this just shows how powerful some of these plants can be to our daily lives. We should always ask why the government wants to unlegalized something, by now we should all know that they do NOT hold our best interest!!

youtube.com...

[edit on 20-4-2008 by freighttrain]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by deadline527

Originally posted by hypr2008
The internet has taken a lot of things

Someone in town overdosed on caffeine (from those red bulls) and had a heart attack

too much Tylenol causes liver damage

but don't get me started on Jenkem.


MMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm Jenkem! The sound of that just makes my mouth water!



Jenkem is probably one of the most disgusting things used for a high, it originated in Africa, en.wikipedia.org...

I also forgot to mention, here in Canada, there is a growing concern about natives here huffing gasoline for a quick high.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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I TOTALLY agree on banning this substance whether is harmful or not, it makes people look unbelievably stupid, I had a friend that actually tried this in school and I never talked to him again because he made an idiot out of himself.
Oh so I geuss getting plastered out of your mind on alcohol and streaking down the street is a WHOLE lot better then doing this stuff. Sorry to say, but this stuff isn't nearly as harmful as 95 % of other stuff out there. Salvia only last for 5 minutes anyway.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by flyingwoody
 


One doesn't need hallucinogens for that. I feel a deeper connection to nature when eating a salad. Problem is since the industrial revolution society has largely given up its nature-based values for technology-based values. Now we've come to the point where we have realized our error. (If we cannot respect our own planet, I don't see how we can ever hope to survive in space.) At any rate, there clearly is a need for hallucinogenic experiences within our society and nature graciously provides us the means. Problem is society doesn't recognize the value that nature offers -- or perhaps society does but is afraid or unwilling to take responsibility for the changes that society would undergo as a result of creating a culture that recognizes and accepts a its vital role with regards to nature, as does bees.

We want to exploit nature but we do not wish to perceive ourselves as being a part of it. That is the sad truth. And our present reality reflects this truth in great measure.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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I cant believe I smoked this crap a couple of times. Im clean and sober now but back in the day a friend of mine got some of this stuff online. Smoking weed is one thing. This crap is definetly another. The near psychotic state this stuff will send you into for a couple min. is akin to PCP. The danger one poses to themselves and everyone around them during that initial high is why it should be controlled.

Note I said controled not banned. From what I know theres no scientific data on
how this stuff affects the brain. Im all for ppl staying away from it but until scientific research is done the politicians can shove it. Until research is done I dont see how anyone can be prosecuted for possesing a substance that cant be placed on the scheduled control list because we dont know what chemical/drugs
in the stuff cause the effects or why.

Its gonna be fun watching big brother force it into say the same category as coc aine etc. and start locking ppl up so they can thump their "morality" chests.

A PCP like psychotic break? Yes. I can relate from my experiences smoking the stuff myself.

Does it eat your brain from the inside out like PCP? Being completely natural and unprocessed I seriously doubt it.

Ayahusca anyone?



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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I had a pretty nasty trip on this stuff myself a few nights ago. That being said, once the hallucinations stopped and I realized I was going to be alright, I felt really good.

If they ban it, it's just going to be one more thing that gangs ruin neighborhoods in order to control the distribution of.

It should definitely have an age limit though. This isn't something that kids should have access to, period.

Oh, and if there's one thing it isn't, it's not a freakin' placebo....
@ that suggestion!!



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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Here are some links to two studies conducted with regard to Salvia DIvinorum and Salvinora A, and another on the effects of a kappa-opioid receptor agonist (which is what the psychoactive compound in Salvia Divinorum is) on amphetamine addiction.

Psychopharmacology of the hallucinogenic sage Salvia divinorum

The pharmacological effects of Salvia species on the central nervous system

Effect of the kappa-opioid receptor agonist, U69593, on reinstatement of extinguished amphetamine self-administration behavior.

What we can determine from these is that:



  • Salvia Divinorum is a genuine hallucinogen (or, if you prefer, entheogen) and not a placebo or a fraud
  • It has potential for the treatment of amphetamine addiction
  • It has other potential benefits


I have utilized this substance in the past and plan to do so again in the future. I absorb it sublingually using fresh leaves from the actual plant. I do not use enhanced extracts, tinctures, or other products other than the natural leaf. I have had no unpleasurable or frightening experiences with it, and indeed, it has benefited me in several instances both psychologically and, in my opinion, spiritually.

I am thus opposed to its banning or regulation as a scheduled substance unless firm evidence is produced demonstrating its capacity to harm - particularly in light of the continuing legality of alcohol and tobacco, which directly and indirectly kill countless people each year.

I do, however, oppose its sale to minors. The sale of Salvia Divinorum, Salvinorin A, or related products and substances to any person under 18 years of age is a misdemeanor in my state as far as I know. I feel that this is a sensible level of regulation for the time being.

I respect the opinions and feelings of those who disagree.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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So that's why my mom was mad when I brought this stuff home one time! boy was I stupid back then...
Had no clue what it was and got mixed up with some people who said I could go to a different realm/reality all together if I got some salvia. Now that I think about it I wonder why they would let a 15 year old purchase such a powerful thing. Oh well never used it, but am quite curious for using it in meditative purposes.


Really Really hope they don't ban it. If it is used responsibly by adults and gain only pleasure and have fun while doing so then I see no reason to ban it. But man...typing in Salvia on youtube, all those videos of kids trippin' I would say they should probably ask for ID on this maybe at like the age of 18 or something...(Still can't get over that I got this when I was 15, and didn't know what the heck it was, wonder if my mom still has it....)



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
I have been planting this stuff everywhere for YEARS . lol
Its actually a really pretty flower . Brightens up any lawn/garden.


Yes, it is beautiful, and I too have had it growing everywhere.
I just love any kind of sage.
I will be back with a link about "Sweet Fern" a brushy little pretty bush that grows wild. It has some of the same properties as the "unmentionable".
What are they going to do, dig up the whole Mid-West?
I like it because it makes a pretty bouquet.
WIS



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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Allright!! Some legit info and research!

After reviewing the above links I for now agree that used in correct amounts then this stuff maybe a godsend for those hooked on meth.

It is of course too late now for reason. The politicians have gotten their self serving claws into it and started it on its way into the blind hysteria of American
drug policy. Until the government finds out how to alter it to make it addicting it
wont be such a hot issue.

I consider the possibility of processed versions of it-ala crack-mysteriously showing up out of nowhere in inner cities very real. More money and power for the govt.

The government makes more money off drugs being illegal than taxed and legal....the govt. seems to be pretty hard up for cash right now....
Keep your eyes open for another uncontrolled pure profit scheme coming soon Im sure...

but really...how bout that ayahusca! As far as I know its legal as sea salt...



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 


There's a big difference between regular sage and savlia divinorum. Salvia divinorum doesn't produce any seeds usually, pretty much the only way to get it alive is to know someone who has a plant and can make cuttings, or to purchase cuttings through headshops or online.

You just can't get seeds from these plants...

This plant is amazing. I tried it probably three or so years ago and had the most amazing, humbling and enlightening experience. I think that you get out of it what you put in. A spiritually minded person will experience incredible things.

I felt the female spirit that is rumored to be lady salvia... and I saw mexican shamans (brujos?) sitting around this sphere that was the reality we currently live it, doing their holy work. Now, I had no clue that it was mexican or used by mexican shamans, because I was silly and bought and used it from a headshop before really researching it. The guy at the shop told me it was a natural hallucinogenic plant with a trip that lasted 10 or so minutes, and since I am highly interested in hallucinogenic plants I bought it to try. It was incredible and I have nothing but the deepest respect for this plant. After I researched it further and found the connections I was stunned to see such a strong parallel from my experiences to the historical use of the plant.

Yes, a lot of people have bad trips, because lady salvia does not take well to ignorant people trying to use her for a good time. She's a teacher plant and she will bring you to your knees so fast your head will spin if you do not respect her.

I know they will make it illegal, but I wish they wouldn't. First the US bans it, then Canada will inevitably follow suit. *sigh*



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day




Well, after seeing those youtube videos I started getting mad, I never even smirked a single time.

I TOTALLY agree on banning this substance whether is harmful or not, it makes people look unbelievably stupid,


I'm with you. I watched a few of those videos not too long ago. It was pretty scary what that drug does. Even if it's for a short time, it is still a pretty devastating high, in my opinion.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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its nice when people are armed with information its at this point i should point you all towards www.erowid.org...

an amazing site with great resources and an unbiased opinion.

www.erowid.org... for saliva in particular

there are links to personal experiences and general information history etc a wealth of knowledge

now to the point.

saliva should remain a legal substance not that in my opinion many shoud be illegal at all. used in the right way this can be a very mind opening drug. 9 many peoples experiences point toward this drug having an effect of shattering / splicing reality into several dimensions. especially at the higher end of dosage.

the main problem with this drug is dosage. as many people may have noticed its sold in many varying strengths. this in its self is an issue because one can never know the individual strength of the saliva.

secondly is the way in witch the active ingredient is absorbed / the method of intake. once absorbed into the body even in very small amounts the high is almost instantaneous if enough is ingested at once. but with this the individual creates an almost instant tolerance to the effect. so repeated use in quick succession can have 2 very differing effects (one big trip or not much at all) coupled with the fact the it is smoked so an accurate amount can never be judged for each hit especially for the small amounts needed.

with these factors i can see why so many people have a bad time with this drug but its mostly harmless if you come prepared



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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Since when did spit make people see things??

Really though..I saw a segment on the news about this here saliva stuff and they showed the different clips from U tube and elsewhere..and that junk is SCARY ! I would ban it also. Ans I will stick to mmmm Beer.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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This thread has has me interested as I love to meditate and want to experience more. I went to a local headshop and purchased some 5x to try with my roomate tonight. Will 5X work or do I need a stronger version? Thanks!



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by hypr2008
Jenkem is probably one of the most disgusting things used for a high, it originated in Africa, en.wikipedia.org...

I also forgot to mention, here in Canada, there is a growing concern about natives here huffing gasoline for a quick high.


Uhh, you don't actually believe that jenkem us real, do you? It's a hoax..

Good lord....

www.snopes.com...



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by jasonhb
 


You should grow it from seed.

Board here is a sacred plant that's gonna get outlawed because of how it's being marketed through headshops in various potency ranges. Then you have some young adult that's not going to know anything about Salvia go buy one of the higher 20x and get into a bad experience and/or decided to smoke while driving an automobile.
The plant gives repect when treated with respect just like with any living being.
Wild animals have ways of getting themselves 'high' in nature. Like primates,birds. So one could conclude it is natural to seek states of altered conciousness. I would go as far as to say everyone seeks a way to alter their consciousness through chemicals. The Government is trying to drive everyone into using the two legal drugs through the many social and criminal repercussions of illegal drug use by making the last legal mind altering plants illegal.
cigs and booze happen to kill the most people along with the Pharmaceutical cabal. Kind of makes any self thinking person question the laws he is subject to.


[edit on 20-4-2008 by MrsEsterhouse]

[edit on 20-4-2008 by MrsEsterhouse]



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