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States move to ban hallucinogen salvia

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posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by NWRHINO
 


While I have no experience with Salvia, I concur that these type of substances should be treated with the utmost respect. They are not party favors, and really, to treat them as such degrades the whole purpose and experience.




posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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You don't need someone to tell you that getting high is morally wrong in way. I don't care about rituals of people getting high and torturing themselves becasue it's part of one's culture. But certainly isn't part of the average American's life.

Would anyone here like to see your child getting high on something that's completely legal? Heck I'll probably think that he's doing weed or coc aine.
If my parents ever see me getting high on something they'll kick me out of the house because I can see "It's called Salvia and it's legal".

So I can bring this crap to school and snort it during a lecture?

[edit on 4/20/2008 by die_another_day]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
If my parents ever see me getting high on something they'll kick me out of the house because I can see "It's called Salvia and it's legal".



[edit on 4/20/2008 by die_another_day]


That's really the crux of the matter isn't it? You're a kid, still living at home.

I'm a grown man and can make my own decisions about my body, my mind and the experiences I choose to have. Other adults should have the same rights.

It's not about protecting us from ourselves; It's about CONTROL!!


apc

posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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If everyone bans salvia the entertainment value of YouTube is going to tank.

But I guess there's still those videos of drug warriors getting the crap beat out of them.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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I actually just recently wrote a research paper on the legalization of hallucinogens and I included Salvia Divinorum. From my research the only problems with Salvia are bad trips and of course the idiots that use them. I'm not saying that everyone that uses is an idiot I'm talking about all the white trash idiots on Youtube etc. I read somewhere that there was a survey conducted (I can't remember where I read this, I believe it was in a Wikipedia link) and nearly all users surveyed reported a feeling of deeper connection to nature after they used the "Divine Mint". Seems to me that if more people felt this connection to nature then some of the problems with our environment would be put into motion to be ended.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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I don't agree with banning it, but I do think there should be higher restrictions on salvia. It's possible to waltz into a head shop, show your ID and waltz back out with a large amount of salvia for fairly cheap. I've tried it twice, and the second time I had a horrible experience and wouldn't try it again. I also know several people who have had the same overwhelming, almost terrifying experience from a fairly low amount of salvia that I've had. I don't think a drug that pretty much incapacitates you and throws you into extremely vivid hallucinations in the blink of an eye should be so easy to get.
I don't think this is so much an issue of trying to take away our right to try what we want without government interference as it is trying to keep young kids from frying their mind and doing something extremely stupid, since that's what seems to happen on salvia.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
You don't need someone to tell you that getting high is morally wrong in way. I don't care about rituals of people getting high and torturing themselves becasue it's part of one's culture. But certainly isn't part of the average American's life.


You're right, I don't need anyone telling me that. Right and wrong are subjective, if you think it's wrong don't do it, but to tell me that I don't have the god given RIGHT to put whatever I want in my OWN body then you're the one who is wrong.

And what rituals of people getting high and torturing themselves are you talking about? Clearly you have no idea.



Would anyone here like to see your child getting high on something that's completely legal?

[edit on 4/20/2008 by die_another_day]


I don't have children, but if I had a son or daughter who was 18 and wanted to use Salva responsibly I would definately encourage it and teach them about responsible use.

But that's up to the parents. You can't blame WD-40 for all those stupid bastards huffing it outta plastic bags can you?

People are going to get high no matter what. To criminalize any substance is just going to increase the crime rate.


Heck I'll probably think that he's doing weed or coc aine.
If my parents ever see me getting high on something they'll kick me out of the house because I can see "It's called Salvia and it's legal".

So I can bring this crap to school and snort it during a lecture?


This pretty much sums up your ignorance on the subject. Marijuana and Cocaine are nothing like each other, and they are nothing like Salvia.

It seems to me that you demonize these things because you're brainwashed , scared and ignorant to their true nature.

If we concentrated on EDUCATION instead of scare tactics, maybe there would be less people like you, I can only hope that will be the way of the future.

And you don't snort Salvia, you smoke it or make a quid to chew on.


And to whoever said there is no such thing as a responsible user of coc aine or heroin, wake up to reality. It IS possible to use highly addictive substances reposibly and I have seen it first hand and DONE it. If you think that makes me a bad person then your opinions are automatically null and void to me.

People are so ignorant about drugs it's really sad to me.

What good does it do to pass legislation which makes the punishment for posession of a drug more harmful to your life than the effects of that drug?

All it does is perpetuate the scam being pulled on us by the PTB.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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Hmmmm.... yes we need more drugs in this world.
Right now we just don't seem to have enough.
Am i being judgmental.......yes.
But i'm talking through my personal take on substance abuse.
Drugs are a cop out.
They do no good.
Only bad.
If you want to get high, get high on life and love.
And depression is NO excuse.
If your depressed, pick yourself up and pull yourself out of it.
You don't need any thing to do that, believe me.
You just have to remember. nothing is as bad as it seems.
Except for drugs.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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I've tried Salvia a number of times... in retrospect I'm not sure why there was anything beyond a first time lol. I really don't know why this is even an issue, honesly who does this effect? Uhm, absolutely no one! The only reason I can see someone protesting this, is so they can have something to protest and to make themselves feel bigger than those who chose to give it shot.

You can't drive on Salvia, it would be an utter frustration to use a door handle let alone find your keys.
You can't hurt others on Salvia, its far too disorienting to be able to do much beyond lay face up or MAYBE take a few steps and fall down.
If you're not completely irresponsible you cannot hurt yourself, ie: don't do it alone and do it somewhere comfortable.
It's not addicting, hell its not even that fun.
Forming sentences is a struggle so theres less chance of saying something you'll regret versus alcohol.

I found it to be entirely self limiting in that you really don't feel the need (or want to) do it again for quite some time, usually only after you somewhat forget about the first time do you consider it... If I never did it again I wouldn't consider it much of a loss!

Its true some people can have bad experiences, but it was their own dumb fault for doing it, do you really want the government telling you what you're supposed to enjoy?! If you don't think you'd like the ride, hey! heres an idea! don't do it! lol... Like I said the only reason someone would motion to ban Salvia would be in attempt to make themselves feel big. I don't like the stuff particularly but thats my decision - i don't think the government should be allowed to tell me as much.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Have you ever seen your buddy almost die one night from snorting eight lines of coke?


While i sympathize with you, there is such a thing as too much. Too much of most drugs legal or illegal is just not a good thing to be doing. Anyone who uses drugs recreationally and responsibly will tell you they have never had a life threatening experience. I have known many people who have died from LEGAL drug overdoses such as oxy's, ritalin, tylenol 3, alcohol (not just from overdose), cigarettes I have not however, known anyone who has died from marijuana, salvia, mushrooms, acid, coc aine (yes people do die but not as often as cigs or alcohol combined). Herion crack, meth, i frown upon, they do extreme damage as does extasy or other chemical type drugs.

No deaths have ever been directly linked to salvia or any long term health effects. I think there was one case in which a teenager took his own life and his parents blamed it on the salvia but there is no proof of this as teeangers kill themselves quite often for many different reasons. Salvia is NOT a drug, it is a herb, there is no narcotic substances in it.

Oh and for the record, counties that have relaxed drugs laws dont have many problems dealing with users and distributors.

[edit on 08/4/20 by metaldemon2000]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by iiinvision
seriously some people just seem to be so closed minded about hallucinogenic drugs.
They have been around thousands of years. Your own brain and body emit almost identical neurotransmitters that allow you to trip.
All of a sudden a bunch of extremists demonize drugs and your parents tell you their bad. A lot of drugs are bad for you, but here's the key....
Psychedelic drugs( lsd, pscilocybin, thc, dmt, salvia divinorum, peyote etc) used in the acclimated and proper dosage can lead to profound introspective learning experiences.

I have learned more about myself and the universe on mushroom trips than I have in any school or textbook....
A lot of people are adverse to experiencing different realities because they are completely immersed in the material realm(the 3rd dimension)
Its my belief that when you trip you can enter the 4th dimension...the dream world where there is no such thing as time.
Its not so much an escape from reality as it is a learning experience...

Demonizing drugs will only make the problem worse...and they know this

To me, by allowing salvia divinorum, which has been around for thousands of years and used by many shamans and tribes, to become a felony if you possess it is proof of the suppression of ancient knowledge.

Im not advocating drug use, but I don't believe condemning something without even experiencing it is pretty closedminded...its pretty much damn near impossible to overdose or become addicted to most natural psychedelics...(although too much acid is never a good thing...look at the late great Timothy Leary
)





Actually, so I've heard, we ARE in the 4th dimension. (Third being height, depth, AND width, and the fourth being time.) I mean, using the word "dimension" in THAT sense. In the sense I think you're using (somewhat like universe, or plane of existence, or whatever), yeah, we'd be entering a different dimension, but maybe it's like a subordinate one to ours, seeing as we'd have to be alive to experience it? Or maybe it's just a state of mind. I don't know, I haven't tried any hallucinogen yet.

And on the topic of the thread, my opinion has already been said by many people. (That alcohol and tobacco, NOT salvia, '___', or 'shrooms, should be illegal.)



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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Have you ever seen someone die from taking too much TYLENOL? how about CAFFEIENE? uh oh... someone better get the ban stick out and slap them two drugs around with it.

A drug by definition is anything that alters your bodys chemistry, so all you anti-drug people who drink coffee are nothing but hippocrites. Same with anyone who takes a tylenol for a headache. I'm perscribed opiates and I take them for my headache and guess what, they work a thousand times better. When I have a bad toothache, I'm not the one crying in pain because our government dosent allow half the population to actually medicate based on the fact that they believe we are too stupid.

Stop being so damn naive and actually educate yourselves. I'm so sick of government scare tactics.

Did you know that heroin is only a form of morphine? diacetylmorphine to be exact, actually legal in the UK if prescribed. How about the fact that more people die from tylenol overdoses then any other drug? And guess what, you better not take too much of that nutmeg in your cabinet or you will hallucinate for quite some time.

The war on drugs is a sham, period.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 



Isn't that just sage (the most common, "garden" variety of Salvia)?
I mean, in the photograph.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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The internet has taken a lot of things

Someone in town overdosed on caffeine (from those red bulls) and had a heart attack

too much Tylenol causes liver damage

but don't get me started on Jenkem.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by hypr2008
The internet has taken a lot of things

Someone in town overdosed on caffeine (from those red bulls) and had a heart attack

too much Tylenol causes liver damage

but don't get me started on Jenkem.


MMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm Jenkem! The sound of that just makes my mouth water!




posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day


I TOTALLY agree on banning this substance whether is harmful or not, it makes people look unbelievably stupid, I had a friend that actually tried this in school and I never talked to him again because he made an idiot out of himself.


Have you ever thought that your friend was unbelievably stupid? Have you ever seen kids who smoke oregano thinking it's pot and act like idiots? Well, I bet your friend was on the same track.

Salvia's effects only last a few minutes, and are fairly mild compared to most other hallucinogens. Criminalizing salvia would be like criminalizing nutmeg. Both have comparable hallucinogenic effects.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Vanitas
reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 



Isn't that just sage (the most common, "garden" variety of Salvia)?
I mean, in the photograph.






sure it is...
but thats the scam.................. deluding people and selling
$30-50 'Salvia' plants on-line,
the previously taken dupes will perpetuate the Scam & Urban Legend--
of making people believe that 'Salvia' is a hallucinegenic plant,
so as to recover their foolish purchase(s).


think of Placebo Effect... or self induced tripping with this product...



think about it -> just Why hasn't a clandestine/'garage' Labratory
went ahead and fabricated a similar molecular drug as 'Salvia'....

Answer: its a bogus high ! something like smoking Banana Peels that the British singer 'Donovan' made a pop culture item...way back when....



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Well said there! Took the words out of my mouth. I have been using Salvia and '___' for a while now and the ONLY thing I gained from it was a sense of spirituality and connection to the source of where we come from and where we go. A sense of love and peace, a unique perspective on life which I could have not even imagined before!

On some occasion met entities of light that thought me about unity and how we are all ONE! So how this all harmed the world... is a true mystery to me, why ban something that gives you an insight of who you truly are and a sense of love/peace.

As an adult I should be able to make a decision on how to exploring my own spirituality, my own altered state. I as a soul should have the freedom of exploring what this universe has to offer and being dictated, policed on what I can and can not do is just another way for these slave drives to control us even more. It is our God given right, or else it wouldn't be here for us to explore with. Who are they really protecting!? us... or them!



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by Vanitas
reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 



Isn't that just sage (the most common, "garden" variety of Salvia)?
I mean, in the photograph.






sure it is...
but thats the scam.................. deluding people and selling
$30-50 'Salvia' plants on-line,
the previously taken dupes will perpetuate the Scam & Urban Legend--
of making people believe that 'Salvia' is a hallucinegenic plant,
so as to recover their foolish purchase(s).


think of Placebo Effect... or self induced tripping with this product...



think about it -> just Why hasn't a clandestine/'garage' Labratory
went ahead and fabricated a similar molecular drug as 'Salvia'....

Answer: its a bogus high ! something like smoking Banana Peels that the British singer 'Donovan' made a pop culture item...way back when....






Actually there are places where you can purchase 99.8% pure Salvinorin A crystals. And I assure you, it is not a "bogus high" or placebo effect. I have actually used the 20x extract within the last two months and there is no way on god's green earth that whatever happened was a placebo. Three of my friends who tried it also refuse to ever use it again, it is NOT fun, noone in their right mind would use it as a party drug. Now, if you are looking for deep introspection and finding out more about this tiny little thing we call reality, then by all means, the rabbit hole is deep.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
You don't need someone to tell you that getting high is morally wrong in way. I don't care about rituals of people getting high and torturing themselves becasue it's part of one's culture. But certainly isn't part of the average American's life.

Would anyone here like to see your child getting high on something that's completely legal? Heck I'll probably think that he's doing weed or coc aine.
If my parents ever see me getting high on something they'll kick me out of the house because I can see "It's called Salvia and it's legal".

So I can bring this crap to school and snort it during a lecture?

[edit on 4/20/2008 by die_another_day]


OK I think the problem is this... Salvia is in my opinion the most powerful hallucinogen known to man and I DO believe it should be regulated but NOT illegal. Here's the flipside... Salvia is NOT A RECREATIONAL DRUG!!! It's Not Coke, It's Not Ecstasy, It's not Marijuana. You have Teens/young adults going into smokeshops and buying salvia thinking its gonna get them stoned and now actually knowing how powerfull it is or what its used for. Within a few minutes of smoking it and realizing that this isn't what they signed up for and right before they lose their sense of "self" and finding out that they no longer have control of their reality they panic. fortunatly most of them never touch the stuff again. I've used it twice during meditation and found it to be a great spiritual experience and my eyes were opened to different things that before I knew nothing about. I respect it and I'm happy I did it. I would not reccomend it to anyone though.







 
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