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Are there 33 shamans on ATS?

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posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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'Belief' is the first step away from true shamanism, since it pre-supposes reliance on dogmatic thought; ie. "I don't know why it's so, but I believe it to be true because this is what I've been told."


Speaking strictly from my own experience... not necessarily.
In my case (and no, I don't claim to be a shaman), the adage would go like this:
"I don't know why this is so, or even whether it is so AT ALL, but I believe it to be true because that's what my gut instinct tells me".
("Gut instinct" being a gross understatement and a misnomer for finer, subtler organs of cognition.)

Nothing to do with dogma - quite the opposite, actually!




On the other, our doctors are willing to create designer children in test tubes for the stupidest notions.


If Dr. Mengele proposes such "creative" interfering with nature, it's a crime against humanity.

If Dr. So-and-So, active today in a "First World" country, proposes it, it's progressive thinking.

Oh yeah... progress indeed.













[edit on 21-4-2008 by Vanitas]




posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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I have no idea how I overlooked this post - sorry about that!




A shaman, in my opinion, has discarded all the trappings and nonsense of his own belief system. So many people go through the motions, attending churches, following a given routine, and having no idea why.


But you see, you're talking about people without beliefs.


That's why I think even the (apparently) simplest concepts - like "belief" - have to be defined in a very rigorous fashion.

A general ideological, purely nominal allegiance to any given system (or even a structured "lack of system", if you know what I mean) is not belief - and it's no wonder that it leads nowhere, in terms of transcending oneself, if I may use this grossly generalised expression.
(As for its usefulness for maintaining the status quo - and I am not bashing or praising it at this point - that's another thing...)





[edit on 21-4-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by masqua

'Belief' is the first step away from true shamanism, since it pre-supposes reliance on dogmatic thought; ie. "I don't know why it's so, but I believe it to be true because this is what I've been told."


So, so true. Which also, as you point out, explains why "pursuing the shamanistic path" by doing "shamanistic" rituals, reading the books, dressing in flowy robes, using the jargon, etc., is totally counter productive. Its the opposite of belief and ritual, and dogma. There is no way belief and ritual and dogma are going to create for someone a "shamanistic" experience.



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Vanitas

Speaking strictly from my own experience... not necessarily.
In my case (and no, I don't claim to be a shaman), the adage would go like this:
"I don't know why this is so, or even whether it is so AT ALL, but I believe it to be true because that's what my gut instinct tells me".
("Gut instinct" being a gross understatement and a misnomer for finer, subtler organs of cognition.)

Nothing to do with dogma - quite the opposite, actually!


Intuition is what you sound like you are describing. Not dogma. Or belief. Intuition is a deep KNOWING that transcends normal logical reasoning. (it isnt an opposite of it, but something "more than")

Belief is what you have when you yourself do not KNOW but must rely on some expert other to validate.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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Bumping just in case anyone is going to Siberia - you know, for the Tunguska anniversary...



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Does an Ayahuasquiro count as a shaman?



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Psychopump
 


Sure!
All... ahem, persuasions are welcome.




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