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Sorry, wrong house: Drug squad's sledgehammer raid nets a dinner lady drinking tea

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posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by Cyberbian
 


You might want to check out this story, about how a cop who gets into a bar fight can't be prosecuted...

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
Semper, while I do regularly admire and respect your posts, there is one small thing I have to take issue with.


There is nothing irresponsible about their actions.

Correct in this case. Yet I regularly see instances reported where police get unfair breaks from our legal system. What if this lady was in the US and was shot? Would the policeman responsible be given the same punishment as an armed drug dealer that crashed through her window and shot her would receive? By all indications, no, he would not.

I am not a cop-basher. They do a job that I myself would hate to have. They perform under conditions that would make the average man cower in a corner. Yet, despite the majority of police forces being good decent men and women, there are a substantial number who are not. Bribery is much more common among higher-level police than I think most would believe. I have personally had an offer made to me by a law-enforcement officer (no names) to take over a bootlegging operation, complete with the bribery costs and anticipated profits and benefits.

In my youth, I had plenty of experience with cops who felt a day without harassing some kid for something was like a day without sunshine. I have had my rights violated many times (beaten, etc), and in all but a precious few, my best course of action was to simply take it and get out of Dodge at my first opportunity. I have witnessed cover-ups when someone in the Force got caught with their hand where it shouldn't be, and I have seen good officers drummed out of the police force because they followed orders which brought the ire of the citizenry.

I have also known men who worked tirelessly to try and keep crime off the streets. I have seen them frustrated at the lack of support from judges and citizenry alike. So let's face it, there's good and bad in every police force, and the bad often gets a free ride because they are part of the system.

With increased authority comes increased responsibility. I see plenty of authority; now where is that responsibility?

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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The CIA needs to stop moving drugs into the country, and start moving them out by arresting every dealer, and start putting officers out patrolling gang land, with shoot to kill motives. That's the only way to fight the real drug wars. Because you never know what will happen out on the street.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by jca2005
 


I think they should take every single cop off the streets, line them up on the border, and put an army of them in every port and international airport.

Oh, and of course if we could get the CIA to stop bringing the # in, the drug dealers would go do something else and we wouldn't have to pay to house them in prison.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


The thing to remember is this..

The laws you are referencing all have included in them the term... "INTENT", "Aforethought" or "Malice" all depending on the jurisdiction of course...

For example...

Homicide...

"Murder" is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied.

SC Code of Laws

I included that as I work in this jurisdiction and am more familiar with this code now..

A Uniformed Officer, in the performance of his duties, acting with full intent of the public good, does not fill that statute. The drug dealer does...

Semper



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I see your point to some extent there, but if you killed someone because you raided the wrong house, that should be manslaughter. You did not intend to kill anyone, but your negligence to perform your duty properly left an innocent person dead. For example.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


You hit the nail on the head..

You have to PROVE negligence..

A mistake, is not negligence...

Semper



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


If I made the mistake of running a red light and killed a soccer Mom because of it, that would be manslaughter.

If I made the mistake of discharging my loaded weapon while putting it away, and the bullet killed my neighbor, that would be manslaughter.

If you killed someone raiding the wrong house, that would be manslaughter too in my book, probably even more so, because you are supposed to be a professional.

EDIT to add: And for that matter, everyone on the squad should be faced with manslaughter charges, not just the shooter. The same as would be the case if a group of non-police broke into someone house but one of those people actually shot someone. They would all be charged, not just the person with the gun, even if the others had no idea the shooter even had a gun. Of course with the burglars it would be murder for the burglars since the shooting happened during the comission of a felony.



[edit on 4/22/0808 by jackinthebox]

[edit on 4/22/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 05:39 AM
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I know many will not like it, but believe it or not, the criminal justice system has to work for a police officer as well...

They can not just be railroaded because all of you are convinced they are evil...

1. Running a red light is a criminal action in and of itself, the taking of a life due to that is not relevant to a police raid as the raid. The raid was not a criminal action.

2. If you discharged your weapon, while it was out performing a service for the community, in a situation the "Ordinary Person" would consider to be necessary, I know of no Prosecutor that would charge you. I am sure some are out there, I just don't personally know one.

3. "In your book" it may be, but the Criminal Justice System does not work from "Your Book".

Again, like it or not, and I am sure some of you won't, the fact is that mistakes happen. They are horrible and terrible when they do, but they are also extremely rare and there are many, many checks and balances in place to attempt to prevent those mistakes. Also, Police Officers are charged in many instances where they discharged their weapons in circumstances that were unwarranted and injury ensued. It all comes down to a preponderance of the circumstances.

It is easy to play Monday Morning Quarterback where we all sit in our safe homes and make lengthy judgments about instances that the Officer had a millisecond to decide "his/her" course of action. And that is what we all do; it is human nature. It is also human nature to want to blame someone for everything that happens and the Officer is the most visible and easy target of blame in most circumstances.

It is also the "Cool" thing to do, to be anti-police. It is very popular to have a "Story" where you were maligned by an officer for doing nothing. The big bad police officer just started picking on you for no reason..


While things like that do happen, they are in reality far more rare than accidents during raids. Yet everyone seems to have one, unsupportable with facts, but they have a story. I rarely say anything in regards to this as each of us likes to have our "moment in the sun" so to speak; but as rational people, in a rational discussion, intellect and reason must prevail and we have to discount most "stories" where the officer is Satan...


But I have never felt there was any harm in letting people tell their stories, it makes them feel better after all.

But like the situation we are discussing, The mistaken raid, the stories etc, we must constantly remember that we are getting only "snippets" of the FULL and complete story. The REAL story that the particular jurisdiction has to be able to fully render a decision on.

Semper



posted on Apr, 24 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 

Maybe this will sound a little corny, but... thanks for what you do. You guys have a tough job. I did not realize you were active in law enforcement, was thinking more like retired I guess.


The laws you are referencing all have included in them the term... "INTENT", "Aforethought" or "Malice" all depending on the jurisdiction of course...


Quite correct, and I should have worded my post better. In the case of an armed criminal, of course the charge would be greater than in the case of an officer in a mistaken raid. The law does make a difference, and it should. Yet the law also addresses results as well as intent. That is the reason there is such a charge as manslaughter.

My point still stands, that a police officer should be held to at least the same standards as the general populace, except of course, where a violation is required in order to perform his/her job (traffic laws suspended while the discos are flashing, for instance).

I realize there are extreme cases where this logic could reasonably be suspended, such as a hostage being shot while there was an exchange of gunfire. This would clearly be seen as an attempt to enforce the law with horrible consequences, not an act of aggression or negligence on the part of an officer. But a raid conducted on the wrong house does indicate a measure of negligence, despite the number of times it is verified. Results clearly show it was verified one time too few.

SC, eh? Do me a favor, and take it easy on the big trucks? It might be me.


TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 24 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by High Five
Not everything has to be a goddamned conspiracy. People make mistakes, this wasnt some raid ordered by cronies from the bush administration whose only purpose was to disturb the lady. Furthermore they apologized to the poor lady and repaired her window. Just because you feel the war on drugs is a sham doesnt mean people in the police force dont believe it as well. God forbid they want to crack down on drug dealers and the lot. Just because we cant stop them all doesnt mean we cant stop some of them. For that reason alone there should always be a "war" on drugs (that term is stupid btw).

The case you mentioned is a mistake and they have fixed it and apologized. Dont try and twist it to make it look like they're demonic satan worshippers hellbent on disturbing little old ladies drinking tea.

Somtimes I think most of the people on ATS actually WANT to hate the police. The simple fact is you just want to be ignorant instead of saying SOME police officers are bad, you'd like to just group them all together and say ALL of them are bad. The same can be said about ppl's views of the military, or islam. Threads like these piss me off to no end because you clearly just want to throw out any old reason to hate a specific group.

Grow up and start appreciating the fact that some police officers care enough about you that they want to stop drugs from reaching your children's hands.



I hate the fact that police aren't properly trained on the Constitution and how it applies to their jobs. And many times it is this reason that causes abuses.

But you do have a point. Not every incident is a deliberate attempt at curtailing some fundamental right or another. Sometimes, people just screw up.




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