If God exists why does he...

reply to post by _Del_

You know, that's a very good way of looking at things. Interesting concept. I never thought about it in that way. You are correct, being religious doesn't mean you are a good person. However I don't see it as a reward or punishment from god. It is just a random happening, coincidence or whatever you want to call it. I should praise the lord because he spared me from a tragic event? Just timing. Right place at the right time.

A Wise Man once said, "for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
I don't think it's a coincidence or random, either. I think there is a divine plan we simply cannot grasp. I would say you shouldn't praise God because He rescued you or prospered you, but because He is God. The fact He formed you from nothing and any small joy you recieve is divine grace worthy of thanksgiving. But atleast you seem disabused of the notion that God would somehow OWE you something. It would be like saying a potter would OWE a pot its existance. Or owe it a certain shape. Or a long life. Or owe it a life only to be a container for wine, and never for vinegar. Why can't a divine Potter shape the vessels according to His own plan? Some for this; some for that.


[edit on 20-4-2008 by _Del_]

Jesus worked miracles but unfortunately he couldn't copy write his teachings. Some of us try to follow what He said, and mostly ignore all those who have piled on over the last 2000 years. I guess that's why I'm on here this Sunday morning instead of in Church.

Christians are an easy target and politically correct to bash. Why not question does Allah exist? At least Christians are not blowing themselves up in crowded markets or funerals.

reply to post by Stumpy1


Just as stated in the Bible that the Devil told Jesus that he was handed th world and can give it to who ever he pleases. If you were trying to mess up Gods plan than what better way to do that than to hid behind him. You can bet your last dollar that those who do the will of God and obey his word will be the everlasting winners. There are a few verses to go by for you to make it to heaven. Luke 13:3"Unless you repent, you will all parish". Romans 10:9-10 "If you confess with your mouth 'Jesus is Lord.' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation."
For one to know sin and keep doing it they will be judged. And even a murderer can be forgiven. But for a "man of God" to do so he has read the words and knows the actions he takes. Ecclesiastes 12:13 "Let us hear the conclucion of the whole matter: Fear God' and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." I could come up with more quotes. 63 times it says keep his or the commandments. But remember that there is only one judge. I think you are in the right to ask but trust in the Lord. Pray for those you fell that need it and wait on God. He has to allow all things since we are not robots. We have a choice and if your is to believe and trust than you are going down the right road. God Bless and Peace.

It gets strange when people mention a "Divine Plan" (to me anyway).
I may be wrong, but a plan implies a goal, somewhere at the end of that plan. God being God (the Catholic one), it stands to reason that He knows what that goal is. And, by all accounts, it should be a goal He wants to happen.

I often ask myself what our options are. Some say that since God knows everything we will do before we do it, then we have no free will. The reply to that I've seen is: God knowing that doesn't affect our choices, we still make them.

But the one thing I feel is overlooked is this: God set that plan into motion a long time ago; I am here because of that plan, and it will continue after I'm dust. He is the one who set the stone rolling. I am part of that plan. Now, God knows whether I will be part of the goal once it is attained. He knew it before I was here. Which makes me wonder whether we can really make choices, or whether it's simply an illusion.

God knew before He even created the world that pain and suffering would become abundant, would be part of every human being's life (be they good or evil, just or unjust). Therefore I would have to say that God's Divine Plan include all that is good and evil. I can't see a way around that.

Now, that may be for a "greater good", it's a possibility, but what if it is not? People start on the premise that God is good, therefore that plan, for all its perceived flaws, must be for the greater good. But who knows God? Who knows what He can/can't be?

There is no solid evidence of an afterlife, of an eternal life after this one (a concept I struggle to understand; what's the point in that?). I am not versed in the Bible; I am not sure whether it makes mention of an afterlife, but even if it does, I am yet to see evidence that it is truly the word of God, therefore I will not take it at face value.

I understand (somewhat) when people say who am I to question God's judgement, especially when I don't have all the facts. Well, the chances that I will ever have all the facts are astronomically slim. I cannot possibly know that all this is for a greater good.

One poster was scoffed when (s)he asked why God would save some and ignore others. I come from a country where at one point people turned on others and unleashed their inner animals on them in an explosion of unparalleled violence. Ironically, thousands of the hunted sought shelter in churches, praying ardently, asking God to protect them. That actually facilitated the murderers' task. All they had to do (instead of going inside and killing the hunted one by one), is pull down the churches. Which they did, burying alive those inside (mostly women and children).

When one is faced with such nonsensical violence one wonders where God was at that time. I don't expect (nor do I want) God at my beck and call, but at such times free will is pretty much useless. There are children in Africa who pray, asking not for an mp3 player or a Nintendo Wii, but a daily bread, and at the end of the day they go to sleep and never wake up the following day. Why would God not answer such a [simple] prayer? If He can't (or chooses not to) answer a child's prayer, then there is no way in hell he is going to answer mine.

I can 'praise the Lord' all I want, thanking him for being alive, but I cannot close my eyes on the horrors of this world. I will question that Lord's doings, but not because of arrogance, or even because I feel that it's my right to know. Simply because a Lord who let such things happen is one who doesn't give a damn, IMHO.

I saw once a comparison of stars, one giant made our sun look like a speck of dust (literally). All things considered, when I look at the size of this impossibly vast Universe, I wonder why God would pay attention to an insignificant speck like me.

Originally posted by Stumpy1
A question I have been pondering lately..If God as the christians know him really does exist then why does he allow his priests to molest children? Why does he allow polygamy and rape? When a Christian tells me that I will burn in hellfire or be struck down where I stand for these horrible act which I do not take part in, why do the ones who supposedly believe in him get away with them? Why does god allow starvation of those that worship him profusely? Why ? If there truly is a "christian" god why to they worship his brazen image even though in the bible it states that they should not? Why does god need money? Pat Robertson says god needs money. Pat Robertson lives in a 20,000 square foot home? With all of that space does god live with him?
I belive in a supreme being, I also believe in evolution. I don't understand why so many people put so much faith in a book full of stories that has been translated out of meaning over 2000 years. I understand that some people need a crutch so that their life has some meaning but you should stand in line with all of the prisoners who find god after raping and murdering people and use it as an excuse to get out of jail. The christian religion is responsible for more death than all wars put together and your god still stands for this. Why not worship Aesop at least he makes sense and does no speak of fire and brimstone.

Personally, I believe in a higher being than ourselves. However, to ask why does "he" allow this and that is a not really a ligit question. If you want this answer we could point to the "teachings" of God where he states that he has given all men the right of freedom of choice! Where he stats that he has given them free will. It is a self chose made by these people who make a decision by using that same free will. It is not an act carried out by God, nor can he prevent it.

It is not God that allow starvation, but it is man. There is much that man can do to prevent this, for instance, the richer countries could put their hand in to their wealth and provide for the poor. That is not god that is stopping them, but it is their own gread. Life is an act of learning, not an act of prefection. In this life, we are given choices and it is us as individuals that make those decision and not GOD!

I myself do not believe that the bible that we see before is today is correct. I personally feel that the bible was made as a tool that would allow people to have total power over others through the use of it. What we see in todays bible is man made. Some of it could well be true, however, the largest part of it is not real.

In short, it is down to personal responsibilty that people choose to carry out those acts, it is all to easy to put the blame on god.

Originally posted by Stumpy1
...If God ... does exist then why does he allow his priests to molest children? Why does he allow polygamy and rape?

He doesn't allow it. But how should he stop it? There are many cases where God intervenes. But can you imagine if he just rocked up at the door and said "hey dude, what you doing with that kid?" It won't work. We have a life journey and unfortunately we will meet with many types. They get their just rewards when they are judged.

When a Christian tells me that I will burn in hellfire or be struck down where I stand for these horrible act which I do not take part in, why do the ones who supposedly believe in him get away with them?

No hell fire cos there is no hell as we think of hell to be. Supposedly is not a factor as they DO obviously believe in him but sometimes people are fanatical bordering on dangerous.

Why does god allow starvation of those that worship him profusely? Why?

He doesn't allow starvation. The world, for the most part, or the people, are destroying this world themselves.

If there truly is a "christian" god why to they worship his brazen image even though in the bible it states that they should not?

There are answers on that very question here on ATS. In short, it is like having a photo of someone in one's family that has passed and it is a reminder. Christians don't, and real Christians don't, worship statues. It is a reminder of WHO they are worshiping. They don't worship the statue at all.

Why does god need money?

God doesn't need money. And nether do you or i. We really don't. BUT, if we want to buy food someone is going to sell it to us OR we have to grow it ourselves. Likeswise, if missionaries or priests want to feed kids, the quickes way is to buy food. I am not 100% behind these evangelical "priests" that make money for the sake of being rich. God doesn't need the money THEY do.

Pat Robertson says god needs money. Pat Robertson lives in a 20,000 square foot home? With all of that space does god live with him?

There are MANY Pat Robertsons in the world. Unfortunately there always will be. People that moan about them having money may be some of those "donating" money to HIM!!

I belive in a supreme being, I also believe in evolution. I don't understand why so many people put so much faith in a book full of stories that has been translated out of meaning over 2000 years. I understand that some people need a crutch so that their life has some meaning but you should stand in line with all of the prisoners who find god after raping and murdering people and use it as an excuse to get out of jail. The christian religion is responsible for more death than all wars put together and your god still stands for this. Why not worship Aesop at least he makes sense and does no speak of fire and brimstone.

Yes, God and evolution. Quite a combination but quite simple really. Genesis mentions the earth being made in 6 days and the 7th God rested. But it doesn't say that each day was 24 hours. A day could have been millions of years.

We will all stand in line one day and be judged. Among us will be teachers, nurses, lawyers, IT professionals, murderers, rapists and others. We will all be judged in the same way. Yeah Christianity has caused much death - i agree. But again, it is MAN using his own power and not working for God but his own agendas for power.

God makes sense. there are 60+ authors of the bible - hence some inconsistencies. Then someone takes those works and translates them and then all meaning is lost. Also, keep in mind that the bible was written to address life 2000+/- years ago and things have changed. It no longer, for the most part, has the same meaning hence it makes no sense.


Fire and brimstone is fiction. That came from life "way back when" the dead were cremated. Sulfur was used to aid in the cremation process and that's where the "fire and brimstone (sulfur)" came from. It was used to scare "simple" folk into NOT sinning.

I didn't answer any other posts and decided to only reply to the OP. So if this has been mentioned already - i do apologies.

Four pages and still not matter what nobody has been able to tell why God allow the Innocent specially children to be kill, rape and molested.

Originally posted by marg6043
Four pages and still not matter what nobody has been able to tell why God allow the Innocent specially children to be kill, rape and molested.

The post above yours goes like this:

Originally posted by Stumpy1
...If God ... does exist then why does he allow his priests to molest children? Why does he allow polygamy and rape?


He doesn't allow it. But how should he stop it? There are many cases where God intervenes. But can you imagine if he just rocked up at the door and said "hey dude, what you doing with that kid?" It won't work. We have a life journey and unfortunately we will meet with many types. They get their just rewards when they are judged.

He doesn't allow it. Did anyone perhaps think of it from a different angle? Why does Satan make people do these things? People make their choices and they will be judged one day.

reply to post by shearder


Yes, Satan . . . the big bad Satan, hum this brings back a memory from when I was a second grade teacher . . . I had a littler girl that when she would hit another child her answer to why she did it was because Satan made it do it.

Take that and just think about it, because in my personal believes Satan, the devil or he big bad wolf are nothing but scape goats to be used as excuses. . .



[edit on 22-4-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


Because such an entity need not be a supernatural super man, you know flying around and saving people?
And as I said.
Life is a classroom and in the light of eternal things what is a short span of suffering? I am talking about souls.

[edit on 22-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by shearder

 

Yes, Satan . . . the big bad Satan, hum this brings back a memory from when I was a second grade teacher . . . I had a littler girl that when she would hit another child her answer to why she did it was because Satan made it do it.

Take that and just think about it, because in my personal believes Satan, the devil or he big bad wolf are nothing but scape goats to be used as excuses. . .
[edit on 22-4-2008 by marg6043]

So, what you mean to say is she should have asked "Why did God not stop me?" And like wise God is used as a scapegoat. As i said, let's look at it from a different angle - Satan - that was all. You never hear him being blamed - do you? We hear "Why does God let this happen to me", Why does God allow this and why does God allow that etc etc.

The question is why don't people take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming God for everything that happens. If you don't believe the Devil exists or Satan or Lucifer then, likewise, God doesn't exist - so the world should stop blaming him.

The world has tossed itself into this turmoil and heartache not God. If i am grinding and a piece of metal goes in my eye, should i say "WHY did God let this happen??!!" Nope, i should have worn the correct protective eye wear. It wasn't God - it would have been my own stupidity.