It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

If God exists why does he...

page: 1
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 11:26 PM
link   
A question I have been pondering lately..If God as the christians know him really does exist then why does he allow his priests to molest children? Why does he allow polygamy and rape? When a Christian tells me that I will burn in hellfire or be struck down where I stand for these horrible act which I do not take part in, why do the ones who supposedly believe in him get away with them? Why does god allow starvation of those that worship him profusely? Why ? If there truly is a "christian" god why to they worship his brazen image even though in the bible it states that they should not? Why does god need money? Pat Robertson says god needs money. Pat Robertson lives in a 20,000 square foot home? With all of that space does god live with him?
I belive in a supreme being, I also believe in evolution. I don't understand why so many people put so much faith in a book full of stories that has been translated out of meaning over 2000 years. I understand that some people need a crutch so that their life has some meaning but you should stand in line with all of the prisoners who find god after raping and murdering people and use it as an excuse to get out of jail. The christian religion is responsible for more death than all wars put together and your god still stands for this. Why not worship Aesop at least he makes sense and does no speak of fire and brimstone.




posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 11:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Stumpy1
 


Simply your question is:
"Why does god allow suffering?"

Simply I answer this:
Life is a classroom.
We are here to learn and you don't need to go to class if you already know the answers.
Some lessons you cannot learn if you don't first experience them.
Can you truly learn suffering without experiencing it?
Is there any sense of accomplistment to win by cheating in a video game?
And etc etc etc etc.

And in the end. If we do have eternal souls. What does this short span of suffering mean in the big scheme of things anway?

But then again you were asking Christians. Sorry.



[edit on 18-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by Stumpy1
 


Simply your question is:
"Why does god allow suffering?"

Simply I answer this:
Life is a classroom.
We are here to learn and you don't need to go to class if you already know the answers.


What class was Jessica Lunsford in when she was brutally raped and buried alive while JeZeus just stood by playing the voyeur? Well he must be a voyeur since he didn't lift a finger to stop it. There are hardened criminals who wouldn't have hesitated to stop her assailant in his tracks but I digress. So what class was Jessica in? What was her lesson?



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Lilitu
 


*sighs and shakes his head*

Funny. I see atheists miscatagorize and then blast theists for believing there is some big daddy in the sky but when arguments are brought out that such a being isn't, they revert to say that such a being would have to be one.
Why not go ahead and ask why a deity would allow such thing as meat eaters. I mean once must die so that a another must live. How cruel! But wait plant eaters eat those poor poor defenseless plants. EVIL!!! ALL OF THEM!!!
*rolls his eyes*
Or Earthquakes.
Or plagues.
Or wars.
Or any other of a gazillion bad things that can and do happen.

And you obviously weren't paying attention at the point when I said this:


And in the end. If we do have eternal souls. What does short span of suffering mean in the big scheme of things anway?


And as for what her lesson was. There is no acceptable to you answer so I won't even bother answering.

But regardless of your rather weak argument, still I say, life is a classroom.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:28 AM
link   
Pat Robertson is not exactly a WWJD person. He goes against many of Jesus's teachings. Dont think it doesnt make Christians concerned either! They know the deception that is portrayed on TV, why do you think a lot of intelligent people hardly ever watch TV, and if they do, its with a grain of salt.

Maybe you should pretend you never let the way another man interprets the Bible or any other spiritual work of any region affect the way you read it.

God never once asked me for money. God gave me free will to either love you as myself or rape you in drunkenness, I get to choose if I follow truth, or delusion.

Ignore the people, they give religions a bad name; I guess religion without the people would just be spirituality, since religion is kind of like the politics of belief supported by a common interpretation of any given work.

And the way Christians know God, varies greatly. Are you familiar with gnostic teachings? Are you at all familiar as to what Jesus was teaching his 12 initiates that never made it to the Bible? Do you know how sacred geometry works?

in the olden days, we would say, Pay your respects to the Gods, but worship only GOD.

The christian religion is responsible for nothing but ideas, the individuals who carried out each individual act are responsible for their actions.

God stands for all of us, and all of our choices, God is what allows anything to take place. Space collisions destroy entire planets and stars, it is destruction, but is it bad? Is it not what lead to life on earth in the first place? So it would only make sense that god would let us rape and kill each other, its how we learn how not to.

Everyone these days is confused. We all need to read all of histories sacred writings to even vaguely grasp the discrepancy that occurs today with the Judaic religions and or teachings. (or the cross understanding of what the Eastern VS Western beliefs believe of each other, along with how such discrepancies came to be)((a lot of it has to do with language barriers and personal vendettas))

And spirituality is in no way a crutch, for some maybe, but for those who really get it, its merely the icing on the cake, the spice of life. Ive got my head strait, Im happy, I believe in evolution and science and physics, but I have no choice but to thank God for allowing the circumstances for any system to prevail at all in the first place.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:33 AM
link   
God does not allow suffering, YOU allow suffering. Meditate and fast for weeks on end, and then maybe youll understand the true nature of this reality. Suffering is an illusion, so are you, this is what Jesus teaches, be nice, like you would to yourself, do this, because youll just make it more crappy for yourself if you dont, and this temporal existence is but a blink of an eye to the entirety of your experience.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:35 AM
link   
I believe that if there is a god, he woudln't care one way or the other. I mean think about it, all powerfull, can do anything, why would he care about one of little seamonkies...(what I seem to equvicate our relatioship to god with). I don't mean this as an attack, just I've been pondering this myself. Why would he care. Just like the whole church thing. Why would an all powerfull all knowing being care if his little sea monkies go into a little building and praise him. HES GOD. Unless god has some self esteem issues, this has always confused me the most of religions. Why would god care?



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Tenebrous
 

Uhm, the going into the temple and stuff is not for God to care about, its for us to get to know Gods nature better, and because we care about God. People worship because they have a connection, I know there are a number of people out there that probably seek an external approval, but its really gonna boil down to what your perception of what god expects of you is, and so its a search for self the whole way down to finding God in everything.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:43 AM
link   
My apolgies, its just the impression one gets from an outside perspective. The churches seem to push come to church or burn in hell. I know that sounds rude but that is exactly how it comes of. I am more getting at if god is what god is and he exists, then your religious affiliation shouldn't matter. If you lived a good life, did good things and tried not to hurt anyone, would all all powerfull creator care if you lived word for wrod from his book?



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:54 AM
link   
If Ganesha exists why does it....
If Annapurna exists why does she....
If Maya exists why does she....
If Balrama exists why does he...
If Krishna exists why does she....
If Vishnu exists why does it....
If Shiva exists why does she....
If Muhammad exists why does he....

I can go on with this to the wee hours of the morning.
I am sorry but I don't see it proper to say "God" singularly.

[edit on 123030p://666 by shizzle5150]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 12:58 AM
link   
reply to post by shizzle5150
 


Ah, but isn't it altogether possible these are just how different cultures interpret the same being?



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:01 AM
link   
entirely possible only that there in not always one (same as you put it) being(s). I do agree that there are some similarities and in some cases spot on replications. It's not always singular though....

[edit on 013030p://666 by shizzle5150]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:08 AM
link   
reply to post by shizzle5150
 


Not sure I get what you mean. But either way.
Hell. I don't even mean the samething most people mean when I say the word "god".
hEh



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:22 AM
link   
I simply mean that there are a whole lot more than just one to worship, although almost all religious folks think they have the right "one".



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:41 AM
link   
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


I'll take that to mean you don't have an answer so instead you engage in red herrings stawmen and Ad Hominem.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by Lilitu]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:53 AM
link   
When it comes to basic survival without any global interference I would try to stay on topic, If you give the eating of human flesh as an example that is ok. But using livestock (and I use the term loosely because from coast to coast anything short of a human can be deemed livestock) as an example is not part of the original question. I know and understand why people eat meat so don't get off track plzzz stay within the boundries or get kicked!!1!1 An animal is as precious to a plant until they both taste good



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 01:56 AM
link   
reply to post by Lilitu
 


Ok. How is it strawmen, red herrings and ad hom, huh?
It's all well and good that you can claim I am doing these things.
Now prove it and please don't use the "just cause" argument because that is hardly good proof or go ahead and report me for the ad hom and see what the mods say.

And speaking of strawmen.
I think your argument works great for a description.

I make a statement about such a being not being some "great big daddy in the sky" and life being a classroom and then you make an argument about how it should be, or its a "voyeur" with the obvious stance that since it wouldn't "come to the rescue" it doesn't exist.

Here is the definitions and you feel free to argue how you came to that from my statements.

Strawman


Noun 1. strawman - a person used as a cover for some questionable activity
figurehead, front man, nominal head, straw man, front
beguiler, cheater, deceiver, trickster, slicker, cheat - someone who leads you to believe something that is not true
2. strawman - a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted
straw man
specious argument - an argument that appears good at first view but is really fallacious
3. strawman - an effigy in the shape of a man to frighten birds away from seeds
bird-scarer, scarecrow, scarer, straw man
effigy, simulacrum, image - a representation of a person (especially in the form of sculpture); "the coin bears an effigy of Lincoln"; "the emperor's tomb had his image carved in stone"

Source: Strawman @ freedictionary.com

Red Herring


Noun 1. red herring - any diversion intended to distract attention from the main issue
digression, divagation, diversion, deflexion, deviation, deflection - a turning aside (of your course or attention or concern); "a diversion from the main highway"; "a digression into irrelevant details"; "a deflection from his goal"
2. red herring - a dried and smoked herring having a reddish color
smoked herring
herring - valuable flesh of fatty fish from shallow waters of northern Atlantic or Pacific; usually salted or pickled
3. red herring - a first draft of a prospectus; must be clearly marked to indicate that parts may be changed in the final prospectus; "because some portions of the cover page are printed in red ink a preliminary prospectus is sometimes called a red herring"
preliminary prospectus
course catalog, course catalogue, prospectus - a catalog listing the courses offered by a college or university

Source: Red Herring @ freedictionary.com

Ad Hom


An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

Source: ad hom @ Wikipedia.com

*whoops I added the correct entry for ad hom*

[edit on 19-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 02:00 AM
link   
hehehe. .... I wonder what country you are from...because you exude a strong christian belief and the knowledege you have back up the feeling I get. If Pat Robertson does not follow christian doctrine then why do so many people watch and believe.? I have a feeling that you are not all you are cracked up to be! And I say such because you talk about being christian but do not back those who feel the same....and those would be the ones who are in for it for the money....have you never left a contribution in the collection plate? if so you then you are a conteibutor to the very power that I am referencing\



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 02:10 AM
link   
reply to post by Stumpy1
 


Can we say seeing what you want regardless of the obvious facts?

I am about as much a Christian as the Dali Llama friend and I would appreciate it if you kept your half baked assumptions to yourself.

I'm guilty of ad hom?
Sssssuuuurrrreeeeeeee

[edit on 19-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 02:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by Stumpy1
I don't understand why so many people put so much faith in a book full of stories that has been translated out of meaning over 2000 years.


What makes you think we all base ourselves on a book written 2000 years ago? Have you ever thought that some people might of had revelations in recent times that they base their faith upon?




top topics



 
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join