Im glad your whole little "clique" has put me as a foe......do you feel better now.

It still doesnt change the fact that the US is the most powerful nation.

Originally posted by Daniem
there are no winners in war my friend. Iran has over 70 million people living there, over twice that of iraq.. and usa is still there fighting.

True words.. No one wins the wars.. Yet their are those who make mega money off wars. You see they fund both sides of these Wars to turn much profit.
I wouldnt be shocked if a war with Iran will be funed at top levels by the same people.
We as the people lose everything. No one I know wants to lives for war.
It kills innocent women, children, men. animals alike.

Those Bankers are the ones who feel like they are winning.
And they win becasue they have dumbed down people so far, that they feel you can win a War.
No my friends, Wars are not made to win anything. They are made to turn a dollar, control more drugs, and control more people.

When I come to online communities sure I air my opinions with conviction ... but I also come with an open mind. And I try, as far is possible, to jettison my nationality and patriotism as I wipe my feet at the front door. For that makes for far better debate and promotes a common purpose.

I don't doubt the OP loves his country very much. I'm sure he genuinely believes the USA the greatest place and mightiest power in all Christendom. But he comes here with a closed mind and to that extent this thread is redundant. This thread serves no purpose and, to be honest, by responding to it we're merely stepping ever so disgracefully down into the gutter with him.

ATS is better than this and so are the vast majority of its contributors. Thankfully.

Originally posted by jkrog08
That is the point......no our ground forces arnt "the best in the world"They are proly 2nd or third.But....we make up for that with our air power and navy....

Not sure how the Navy will assist in Iran. Air power...? Sure we have a great amount of air power, but what would be left if we tried to carpet-bomb - with depleted uranium (can you BELIEVE it? We are using depleted uranium in these wars, f'crissake!), for example, or other weaponry - say biological, even...

What would be left but a hated conqueror sitting on poisoned land with the rest of the world all looking on, horrified?

Is THAT the US of A our Founding Individuals were looking for? Sheeee It doesn't seem to me, at least, that that was what they were going after. They wanted no part of Europe's affairs, and I'm pretty sure they didn't want to mess around in the Middle East.

I said it before I will say it again.
The US can NOT win a conventional war in Iran.

The mighty Nazis couldn't take on Russia.
Mighty USA couldn't win in Vietnam, still fighting in afghanistan and Iraq.
Mighty Russia couldn't win in Afghanistan
All of the above had much better equipment than their enemy. Technology doesn't win you wars. You could have 100,000 trained and super equipped soldiers but when you have 20 million armed citizen, how are you going to win? Slaughtering everyone?

Seriously what makes you think you can defeat Iran on its own soil?
Bombing campaign? Not going to achieve much, and the Iranians are well prepared and have some of the best AA systems. Expect them to sink a lot of US ships with their sunburn torpedoes. Expect Russia and China to seriously provide for the Iranians if they don't intervene themselves.
China paid for the war in Iraq, even with their financial support the US economy isn't in the best of shape. Imagine what it would be like without their support?

Once and for all get in your head that a war isn't about my plane is better than your plane. It's all about politics, money, morale and support at home and the USA would lose that war as soon as it enters it.

The superficial video game mentatality displayed in this thread is astounding and disappointing. I concede that there are some exceptions posting here. How many of you are over 14 years old?

Try thinking a little deeper and independently of your daily diet of spoonfed nationalistic propanganda.

Iranian citizens are no different than us. Why do you callously advocate their murder by anyone's war machine, particularly ours. I have known and know many Iranians who live here. To a person I have never heard any speak of the kind of terror advocated by many on this thread.

Take a moment to think about what this country used to stand for. If you don't know what it used to stand for, it doesn't take much effort to find out. A good place to start is the founding principles embodied in the declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights. Think about the meaning of the phrase "All men . . . " If that doesn't ring a bell, read the declaration of independence.

Too many Americans' hearts have turned to stone. Wake up before it's too late. Advocate something construction, rather than destructive, for once. bashing other peoples' brains out from a distance breeds just more of the same.

Originally posted by TheOracle
I said it before I will say it again.
The US can NOT win a conventional war in Iran.

This coming from someone who hardly understands conventional warfare.

The mighty Nazis couldn't take on Russia.

The "mighty Nazis" made a technical error by invading Russia during the winter months.

Technology doesn't win you wars. You could have 100,000 trained and super equipped soldiers but when you have 20 million armed citizen, how are you going to win? Slaughtering everyone?

The US military force is an offensive force by nature, it is not a police force.

Seriously what makes you think you can defeat Iran on its own soil?

I personally do not condone a war with Iran, I think that country will change for the better, eventually.

But if a war were to ever take place, the US wouldn't have to step foot on Iranian soil to completely destroy all Iranian economic, and military infrastructure.

Bombing campaign? Not going to achieve much, and the Iranians are well prepared and have some of the best AA systems.

America has some of the worlds best jamming technology, as well as the best fighter, and stealth aircrafts out there, whats your point?

Expect them to sink a lot of US ships with their sunburn torpedoes.

Speculative nonsense at best.

Expect Russia and China to seriously provide for the Iranians if they don't intervene themselves.

It is a serious possibility, however, I doubt either nation (China and Russia) would want to risk everything over Iran.

There is a time line to attack the US in conventional terms, that time line is fast closing however. By 2020 (the latest) the US military will be deploying FCS, and space forces, along with a plethora of other advanced weapons systems, that will be to much for any single nation to handle. Furthermore, I believe the nuclear option is fast closing for nations outside of the US. the 2020's will be an interesting decade.

China paid for the war in Iraq, even with their financial support the US economy isn't in the best of shape. Imagine what it would be like without their support?

You have been listening to too much of China's propaganda that is making its way into the U.S. media. China is using propaganda to try to control U.S. economic and foreign policies.
Other than that, its just not true, please look at my charts posted on page 6, it clearly shows that the situation is not nearly as dire as you would like to think. Also, Japan is the largest foreign holder of US debt, not China.

Once and for all get in your head that a war isn't about my plane is better than your plane. It's all about politics, money, morale and support at home and the USA would lose that war as soon as it enters it.

I do not agree with the OPs point of view, we are not totally immune, but I do agree that the US is the most economically, and militarily, powerful nation this world has ever bare witnessed to.

Ok............My point of view is not that the US is always right or should be in Iraq or whatever.............God people,how many times do I have to say this;ALL I AM SAYING IS ECONOMICALLY AND MILITARLY THE USA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH!!!!!!Can you please stop twisting my words now?


LOL-Someone said"when you see 500 Iran bombers carpet bombing you will understand"Are you that dilusional to think that the Iranian's would EVER get to the United States?We would shoot down EVETY LAST ON OF THEIR BOMBERS AND FIGHTERS thousands of miles before they even got a whiff of American air.....how stupid can you be?Maybe if you had said China,Russia,and Iran it would be more believable,but still wouldnt happen.If you serioussly think the US is that weak as to let a FOREIGN airforce bomb us on our OWN SOIL,than you are just nuts.

I never said the US has won POLITICALLY...but rather MILITARLY in Iraq and Afghanistan.As I stated before I dont think we should go to war with Iran nor should we have gone to war with Iraq(the way we did)

I dont understand why people that obvioussly know nothing about the US military or any military for that matter are talking about "sunburn"torpedos"You do realize our military is made to fight BOTH China and Russia AT THE SAME TIME,ON BOTH SIDES OF THE GLOBE,right?


For the last time I NEVER SAID NOR CLAIMED THAT THE US IS THE MOST POWERFUL BECAUSE OF ITS NUCLEAR POWER......WE ALL LOSE IN A NUCLEAR WAR.

The USA does not need to occupy Iran to destroy its military and the industry that supports it.

The USA would destroy Iran's defensive installations along with Command/Control/Communication sights. It would establish air superiority. It would then systematically bomb Iran's industry to dust. The US infantry would be at the borders blocking supplies going into and out of IRAN. Other than recon units scouting for military installations, no US infantry should enter Iran. All countries would have trouble attacking any other country defending its home soil. A mile by mile invasion is not required. The US does not need to occupy Iran to destroy its ability to wage war.

In the event a land war is required, a base of operations would be established on Irans coastline with the full brunt of the USA military in the mix. From hear, the ARMY, Marines and airforce would systematically move from city/town to city/town and destroy them. This would be costly in men/women and equipment. Along the way, the USA would remove as many natural resources as possible and take control over Iran's oil fields. The USA's biggest problem will be guerilla warfare tactics used by the Iranians. Small groups of dedicated men, women and children will play havoc with the USA supply lines.

In the end, either way you look at it, the Iranian military will cease to exist and Iran's industrial complex will be in ruins. Its population would be scattered, frightened and angry.

The USA will have suffered staggering losses and costs. The economy would be a mess. Its military will be thinned out. There is the possibility of attacks on US cities with dirty bombs. So, I believe there will be losses on the homefront. With the dollar at a possible all time low because of this, manufactering in the USA would look more profitable than overseas. Inflation would be astronomical.

To passify Russian and China, the US (and Britian if involved) would offer them reconstruction and rebuilding rights so they can help Iran rebuild its infrastructure as well as establish an new government. Let China and Russia "occupy" Iran.

Remember, this is Just and opinion which is just like your rearend. We all have one.




[edit on 19-4-2008 by wdkirk]

President Bush clearly portrays the average american.

Please sought peace in the world not poverty, sometimes when I look at the sun or the moon it makes me feel united because I know I'm seeing the same sun or moon as everybody else on earth, think about it

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Pfft, the USofA would've pwnt Rome FTW!!!

Clearly you missed the point. Compared to those Rome attacked, they were better prepared and equipped than we are compared to who we attack. Geez.

As far as "great" Britain goes... I think we've already proven that one, even though the young USA had just learned to walk and "great" Britain was the most powerful country in the world at that time.
Hmm, I wonder if there is a lessen to be learned in there?? Anyone else see the irony here?

WTF? Some people a couple hundred years ago defeated the British, who had to sail vast ocean to get here, with only the supplies they could carry, compared to those back then on this side who had all the resources they needed.

And you would use that to make comparisons in today's world. I personally don't think there is any comparison at all.

Also...............to all the 'Brits out there.In one of my earlier comments I said "Britain is the US's b*tch"

I do apoligize for that comment,I was heated at the time do to the arguments over this thread.

I have nothing but respect for our greatest allie Britain,its people,and its culture.......infact I hope to go ther one day(Ive only been to British owned islands)

So,once again I appoligize.............BUT,my stance is still the same on the US.

America is the most powerful nation on earth. I say that because I was born and raised here in America. And I can say that for a nation only being 200 years young while others have been around for thousands of years, we have what no other nation has and that's freedom. ( believe it or not ) Ellis Island with it's mass immigration to the new world was a key factor to this nation being the best. America is not a nation of just a few cultures and races. This country has the world living on it. A world of immigrants who left their countries and risked their lives, some even lost their lives to have freedom. They have the respect for individualism and free competition. Yes we have had our problems but we as a nation have endured and learned from them and are still doing so. 9/11 was a testament of how our nation might be divided with our own problems but when it comes to our nation being attacked we always pull together and become a nation of one. You can say what you want about 9/11 but you can't deny that after seeing those plans fly into those towers and them falling to the ground that this nation with all races was ready to fight anyone who stood in our way. Say all you want about America but don't under estimate the hearts of the American people or write us off as being weak.