America is the most powerful nation EVER!!!

Your statement, is only relative to what we know of civilisation.

reply to post by West Coast


Westcoast do you really believe in the statistics? Do you think that China or any developing country has the ability to provide accurate statistics? No, they don't. They make them up. Your fancy power point presentations from a random website, again prove that statistics can be created.

China is selling their products to their own citizens whose standards of living are rapidly increasing, that is a HUGE market as you can imagine. The yuan is considerably under-valued. Maybe they are planning on getting rid of their American debt before they revalue their currency. I believe they can afford it due to their own market and emerging markets in Asia. They need you less than you think.

I see it for real everyday. You are reading an article or watching CNN, I guess.

Stop bandying about that idea called 'democracy', it's getting people killed. It's hypocritical when your own country's elections are tainted with controversy and you have a two-party system. Pot calling the kettle black.

I'm not interested in discussing this with you anymore, you have never visited China or even Asia. I'm not sure if you have ever even left your own country.

This is not a personal attack on you, it's an attack on your position. You really don't understand that there is very little difference between fascism and communism. The Chinese are getting the freedoms and you are having yours taken away. Do you understand what I am saying to you?

reply to post by goukilock


so you get all your information from the people that are trying to rape you from behind?

did they dangle a shiny object and say "come to my website , we wouldn't lie about the stuff we been doing with your money"

didn't you get the part about the government lying to you, then you go to there web sights, do you even care

you just did to post referring to sources that are probably mentioned one a thread somewhere on this site to be misleading or untrustworthy, you spent time to post a bunch of charts too.

awesome you get a cookie, for proving nothing

next time get a quote from your neighbor , or even some random person off the street , i'd have more confidence in the source



go ahead put your head in the lions mouth , he wont bite

reply to post by goukilock


yes that last post was to WEST COAST , it's 6:25 in New Orleans and i hit the wrong thing

so sue me

peace out yall

in all actuality China has a huge population with with a particularly large amount of females taking up those amounts, an aging population problem is actually what japan has

Despite your ill-informed rhetoric, China has an aging population, China also has a shortage of Females. You really are ignorant on this issue. In China, the 1 child per family is really messing them up. Females are often unwanted, and are often aborted in favor of a of a male child, this is going to have consequences that reach far into the future. China begins to face sex ration imbalance.

More can be found About chinas aging population by doing a simple Google search.

Here, Ill do your work for you.
www.google.com...
[edit on 19-4-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by West Coast]

reply to post by deessell


Deessell,

Lets post the facts again, since you are unable to do so.





Also, China owns very little U.S. debt as a percentage of the GDP. China only owns less than 6% of all of the U.S.'s outstanding debt.
U.S. Treasury website:
Also, the debt is not at historic levels as a percentage of the GDP. Also, the debt to GDP ratio is currently declining. And many other first world countries have far greater debt to GDP ratios.



If China had owned a lot of U.S. debt then they would have drove up the price of treasury securities (bonds, etc). That didn't happen. Currently the price of treasuries have been increasing because people are taking their money out of the stock market and investing in treasuries.
Many U.S. investors want China to sell off the U.S. debt because in the long term it will decrease the trade deficit (improve the stock market, boost home prices, increase consumer spending, increase job growth, etc.)

Why does china buy so much US debt? China only buys our debt to devalue its currency so it can create an artificially created trade deficit. So china buying US debt is in Chinas best interest, if china wants strong economic growth, that is.

Embarrassed yet? I am pretty much thrashing your original "arguments." Though i will not continue to beat you when you have been thoroughly beaten down.

About the "Micky mouse dollar." Japan is thinking about selling off its yen to boost the value of the dollar so Japan can sell more Japanese cars in the U.S.. "Japan sold the yen on the four occasions since 1995 when the currency approached 100 to support exporters including Toyota, the world's second-biggest automaker." ...
-Bloomberg news.

Contrary to what most people think, a weak dollar is not bad for America. It helps U.S. automakers and manufacturers. It also reduces the trade deficit which reduces unemployment and the national debt. The dollar is fine. The falling dollar helps the economy.

A weak dollar does not make foreign car makers happy. Each time the Japanese yen increases to the dollar by one yen, then Toyota's profits drop by 35 billion yen

Global economics 101. The country with the weakest currency wins. And the country with the most innovation (the U.S.) keeps alive the countries that only know how to copy ( through the use of a devalued currency) .

The countries with the weakest currencies have the fastest economic growth. Japan purposefully devalued its currency for decades to gain U.S. marketshare in our automotive sector and our electronic sector.

China and India are currently devaluing their currencies. China had over a 10% GDP growth rate last year. And Russia's devalued currency is hurting the EU steel mills.

The key to America's future is spending money in research and development and at the same time preventing other countries from artificially devaluing their currencies. Those actions alone will increase job growth, improve the standard of living, reduce the need of social programs, reduce the national debt through tax revenue growth, etc..

In the long term a low dollar is actually good for America (as long as other countries don't artificially peg the dollar). A low dollar decreases the trade deficit, improves the economy, and increases tax revenue to lower the budget deficit. China has been enjoying the benefits of a weak currency for a decade. That is the only reason why China is doing so well. It actually sucks at productivity.

China Is Against Free Trade. They are taking what we are allowing. I am in agreement that something needs to be done about this.


Additionally
How is it you can say that China does not need the US, when China needs the US in order to devalue its currency, which makes china lucrative to begin with? Chinas economy is totally reliant on the US and EU economys, it is not a self sufficient first world economy, it is a third world economy with 1.3billion people and a crappy infrastructure. I am seeing things quite clearly. I happen to know the facts, whilst many ill informed illiterates spout the latest fashion fad.

And More freedoms? Tell that to the Tibetans who have had their land invaded ILLEGALLY and ruled by an iron fist for 50 years.
Also tell me why China feels the need to filter what its people can see, and cannot see over the internet?

I will take statistics over your ill informed, maligned opinion.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by West Coast]

I dont know if this was mentioned prev or not but Im in Australia and by what we here down here America is up the creek going into recession what do you guys want to set off the next great depression a country thats almost broke starting a war with what could be percived as being one of the more powerful middle eastern countries is a country on a warmonger campgain. Besides with the way America and her allies (including Australia) ignored the UN on a failed application to invade Iraq and cause countless civillian casualties they all should be held accountable under wars crimes tribunal

[edit on 19-4-2008 by mullet35]

reply to post by goukilock


What the above post proves, is your inability to properly debate me. I have provided sources, whilst you have provided nothing.

You didnt believe me when I said Japan was Americas largest debtor, I applied the coup de grace to that argument once and for all, yet you simply brush it off as it if were some skewed, soviet union styled propaganda.

Please, if you have a source that contradicts any of my claims, i am open to it. Keep your ignorant opinions to yourself though, don't waste my time.

Look at least westcoast brings some SUBSTANCE to his posts! I don't agree with his opinions in the least, but I respect him.

Westcoast, this thread is not for you, it was started by some mentally challenged invalid who makes the people with your ideals seems silly. Don't put yourself in the same group, at least you're thinking logically.

I think that in respect to ATS, this thread should die, the OP offered nothing but an easy argument for both sides of the fence. So it turns into a hate-fest. It offers nothing of substance that another thread can't provide. It is an ancient issue in terms of discussion.

So guys, without sounding like I want to completely stop talk on this issue, can we at least move it to some thread with a backbone?

Mornin' all (more or less).

So, did anyone find out whether or not the OP is on crack?

j/k.

However i am somewhat offended by his proclomation of being a patriot.

Blind fanatacism is not patriotism.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
Mornin' all (more or less).

So, did anyone find out whether or not the OP is on crack?

j/k.

However i am somewhat offended by his proclomation of being a patriot.

Blind fanatacism is not patriotism.

You're right, it's lunacy and the worst kind.

Actually, a blind faith in an entire country could mean you're also a sociopath, as you have no regard for any other person either living in or in service to your said nation.

[edit on 4/19/08 by SantaClaus]

Sorry if I offended anybody the links that you want me to provide Im sorry I am new to all this hence my points my source is simple CNN news desk on pay TV in Australia despite this I do beleive all allies involved should still be held accountable for their actions in Iraq

Originally posted by jkrog08
This page seems to think that the U.S. will lose a war with Iran.
Iran most powerful nation

Well all I have to say is THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE U.S. WOULD LOSE A WAR WITH IRAN.

Further more some claim we are "tyrannical"-----------NO.We are utilizing our international police power to uphold civility in the world.

Finally....we would DESTROY IRAN in HOURS if we wanted to-----------WITHOUT TACTICAL NUKES.

Yeah, just like we destroyed Iraq or Vietnam. Or just like the Soviets destroyed Afghanistan. Or the more powerful British Army destroyed the Minutemen and local militias back in the Revolution.

There's no logic behind the original post. None.

Every time I see a thread like this I got amazed by people's ignorance and disrespect, people like OP probably don't KNOW the horrors of a real war to play with human lives the way he did.

And "Most powerful nation ever"? Are we still in 5th grade?

reply to post by West Coast


Great stuff WestCoast, especially the charts.

The US Chinese debt situation reminds me of the Donald Trump insolvency issues of the mid 90's. The debt holder has structured its entire future on the ability of the debtor to pay back the loan.

Donald trump secured his "Trump Town" project with his casinos as collateral. He secured his Casinos with his Yacht as collateral. When the Bank came for their money Trump basically said - Ok, I hope you have your captains license and know how to run a casino because you can take the boat and the casino... or you can rework the deal !

If you owe the bank a million dollars and can't pay it back,
your in trouble

If you owe the bank a billion dollars and can't pay it back,
the banks in trouble !

China's entire economy is structured to US debt !

Most of the debt is secured by the future labor of the American worker, so China needs America to have an economically strong workforce!

However, things get tricky with what is listed as US government treasuries in the GDP pie chart. The GDP can be as deceiving as the GNP. The T-bills are purchased by the Federal Reserve, which is a private international banking conglomerate. The T-bills are backed by US protected(EPA) land.

The T-bill / US dollar ratio is what regulates the US/world economy.

That is why the value of Euros and gold is measured in dollars. When the Fed buys T- bills the perceived value of gold and other currencies increases due to the dollars devaluation.

Should the T-bill(basically US dollar futures) become degraded like the Housing futures market, then there would be a sell off which would make the dollar's value higher, but would also trigger a period of deflation as loans would become unavailable, prices would drop but due to rampant under employment no one could buy very much

Should the US dollar be degraded, then the international investor could take the US land as collateral in lieu of the worthless dollar.

This may be happening as we experience the FED dumping billions of dollars(buying T-bills) into the financial sector.

...back to IRAN there debt structure(2007Economist.com) is about $3654 per capita of 70 million people.

The US is ..let's see 9 trillion divide by 300 million ouch $30 thousand each !

For the thread starter
Yes indeed ,the US army is the most powerful army. So what ? Yes in a conventional war you can beat the entire world , or if things go like Vietnam and the enemy avoids confrontation you could even nuke the entire planet and get away with it because of your missile shield

So ? Good for you I hope you do not think the rest of the world should look amazed at the "power" of the USA. For me personally you could have weapons to destroy the entire solar system, I do not see such a thing as a "powerful" thing. Or something to be amazed of



[edit on 19-4-2008 by pai mei]

reply to post by West Coast


West Coast ..nice post explaining debt situation...

Ok...............I tried to bring this thread down a notch in civility,but obviously some wont let that happen."Lets end the thread"-is that because you close things out that you dont want to hear?Am I on crack?NO................You thought everyone on ATS had the same beliefs?Are you serious?ATS-or any site with human interaction is not for you then.(To whoever said that)I am the one who acts like I am in 5th grade?No,I think you are since you keep putting "schoolyard childish remarks out"

I am a sociopath?It is bad to be a patriot,or if you are you a sociopath?Im not even going to argu that because it is such an ignorent remark.I started this thread in response to the one in my OP......can you read?Prolly not judging by some on here.............I get put as a foe by someone for putting my opinion out here?Is that because whenever you read or see something you dont like you close it out compleatly?Yes I started this without anything but a statement.............its called conversational style.I will get you all the info you need now..........but wil that really help?NO,I dont think so.Westcoast put very good information to destroy the "anti american"posters ethos(do you know what that means?)

It is a unarguable fact that the US MILITARLY AND ECONOMICALLY are the strongest.........thus it is the most powerful nation on the planet........am I sayig I think we should enslave or destroy the world or solar system(lol).........hell no.I simply stated a fact,I dont know how else to explain it-it as clear as day.I knew this thread would get this kinda response-I just didnt think the anti american arguments would be so invalid.Why are you bringing up all these other arguments about how after we militarly win we cannot occupy a country peacfully-Read history books,no power has ever been able to.....its not possible.

Look people-the US is the most powerful nation on Earth,thats a FACT.

Originally posted by jkrog08
Its funny you say the US is third among world powers in history.................Well I think we are ATLEAST second.....considering WE BEAT THE BRITISH "EMPIRE" TWICE!!!!


If you dont know it was in the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812

Hello. Long time British member here, just noticing another "proud" Yank chest beating without actually understanding anything of which he is saying...

Lets put this into some historical context shall we?

When the American War of Independence began, it was during a time of great upheaval in Europe.

The UK, who's "empire" at the time consisted of almost bugger all, bar a few Islands and the North American colonies, was far more concerned with Revolutionary France declaring war than they were with some jumped up colonists.

Not only were the French a pressing problem, but there were significant disturbances at home in the UK itself.

The Americans were just lucky with their timing. Had France remained Monarchist, then the story would have been very, very different. we would have more likely fought alongside them in North America against the fledgling USA, under which pressure you would have been utterly mangled.

Also, portraying the UK as an Empire or World power then is a fallacy. The main Powers of the time were France and Russia, with the UK trying to keep up. Only after the defeat of Napolean did Britain truly begin it's rise to power.

Secondly, the War of 1812 was a War started by the USA on the UK and the Canadian colonies.

Before the Treaty of Ghent was signed in 1814, signaling the end of the War, the UK had captured more than 40,000 square KM of American territory, mainly near Lakes Superior and Michigan, in Maine, and on the Pacific coast.

American casualties were far higher than those of the UK forces, despite you being on home turf, having the bigger army and having started the War in the first place.

The Treaty was signed, eventually, with no territorial concessions being made by the USA and a return to the status quo. even the reasons why America went to War were forgot about when the peace Treaty was finalised, namely the American protest of the UK helping the Native Americans defend against the blatant expansion into their lands by Yanks.

Quite how you equate an obvious arse-kicking to be an American Victory is beyond me. Don't forget, we also burnt down the White House

Also, even in 1812, the British Empire had hardly begun. It wasn't until the 1830's-40's that it really took off and it reached it's height just after WW1.

India was only taken to stop the Russians who were expanding uncontrolled through Central Asia. Imagine if the Russian Empire reached from Moscow to Saigon?

I might also add here that the Empire would still be around today if the UK hadn't had to fight two World Wars against Germany. And if it wasn't for the World Wars, the USA would be no where near the power it is today.

We had to give up our colonies, under American pressure, after WW2 as a condition for receiving aid in rebuilding our shattered country.

This in turn gave America the leg up it needed to be a world power and they promptly went into the ex colonies, propping up nefarious regimes all so they could expand their economic hegemony over the recently freed peoples.

You were fortunate that after WW2, the USA was the ONLY industrialized nation on the planet to have escaped ANY damage to it's infrastructure or any significant civilian casualties. This is an obvious benefit and the sole reason you are were you are today. Not because your better than everybody else, but because other countries bore the brunt of the fighting, whilst you sold everyone weapons and lent them money to buy more.

Let's not forget that in the early 40's before Pearl Harbour, had it not been for an almost Herculean effort by the British Secret Service, the Yanks would have sided with Nazi Germany and all the horrors that came with them.

Your not as great and benevolent as you like to think you are.

[edit on 19/4/08 by stumason]

A hyperpower or omnipower is a state that is militarily, economically, and technologically dominant on the world stage. The term was first used to describe the United States in the 1990s, but has also been applied, retroactively, to earlier states like the British Empire.

Americanization (or Americanisation, see spelling differences) is the term used for the influence the United States of America has on the culture of other countries, resulting in such phenomena as the substitution of a given culture with American culture. When encountered unwillingly or perforce, it has a negative connotation; when sought voluntarily, it has a positive connotation. Before the mid-twentieth century, however, Americanization referred to the process by which immigrants became American, [1]

Main article: Empire
An empire is a state that extends dominion over areas and populations distinct culturally and ethnically from the culture/ethnicity at the center of power.
According to the Defense Department’s Base Structure Report, 2001, the United States currently has overseas military installations in thirty-eight countries and separate territories. If military bases in U.S. territories/possessions outside the fifty states and the District of Columbia are added, it rises to forty-four. This number is extremely conservative, however, since it does not include important strategic forward bases, even some of those in which the United States maintains substantial numbers of troops, such as Saudi Arabia, Kosovo, and Bosnia. Nor does it include some of the most recently acquired U.S. bases. Through Plan Colombia—aimed principally at guerrilla forces in Colombia but also against the less than servile government of Venezuela and the massive popular movement opposing neoliberalism in Ecuador—the United States is now in the process of expanding its base presence in the Latin American and Caribbean region. Puerto Rico has replaced Panama as the hub for the region. Meanwhile the United States has been establishing four new military bases in Manta, Ecuador; Aruba; Curaçao; and Comalapa, El Salvador—all characterized as forward operating locations (FOLs). Since September 11, the United States has set up military bases housing sixty thousand troops in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, along with Kuwait, Qatar, Turkey, and Bulgaria. Also crucial in the operation is the major U.S. naval base at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. All told, the United States now has overseas military bases in almost sixty countries and separate territories (see Map 1).*

In some ways this number may even be deceptively low. All issues of jurisdiction and authority with respect to bases in host countries are spelled out in what are called status of forces agreements. During the Cold War years these were normally public documents, but are now often classified as secret—for example, those with Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, and in certain respects Saudi Arabia. According to Pentagon records, the United States now has formal agreements of this kind with ninety-three countries (Los Angeles Times, January 6, 2002).American Empire is a term relating to the political, economic, military and cultural influence of the United States. The concept of an American Empire was first popularized in the aftermath of the Spanish-American War of 1898. The sources and proponents of this concept range from classical Marxist theorists of imperialism as a product of capitalism, to modern liberal theorists opposed to what they take to be aggressive U.S. policy, to neo-conservatives who believe the U.S. must embrace an imperial roleMarxists, anarchists, and the members of the New Left tend to view US imperialism as both deep-rooted and an unmitigated evil. Imperialism as US policy, in the view of historians like William Appleman Williams, Howard Zinn, and Gabriel Kolko, traces its beginning not to the Spanish-American War, but to Jefferson’s purchase of the Louisiana Territory, or even to the displacement of Native Americans prior to the American Revolution, and continues to this day. Historian Sidney Lens argues that "the United States, from the time it gained its own independence, has used every available means—political, economic, and military—to dominate other nations."[11] Numerous U.S. foreign interventions, ranging from early actions under the Monroe Doctrine to 21st-century interventions in the Middle East, are typically described by these authors as imperialistic.




A variety of factors may have coincided during the "Age of Imperialism" (the later part of the nineteenth century, when the US and the other major powers rapidly expanded their territorial possessions) to spur on American expansion abroad:

The industry and agriculture of the United States had grown beyond its need for consumption. Powerful business and political figures such as James G. Blaine believed that foreign markets were essential to further economic growth, promoting a more aggressive foreign policy.
Many of the United States' peer competitors (e.g. the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, and Portugal) were engaged in imperialistic adventures, and the US felt that in order to be a "great power" among "great powers," it had to behave in a manner similar to its peers.
The prevalence of racism, notably Ernst Haeckel's "biogenic law," John Fiske's conception of Anglo-Saxon racial superiority, and Josiah Strong's call to "civilize and Christianize" - all manifestations of a growing Social Darwinism and racism in some schools of American political thought.[37]
The development of Frederick Jackson Turner's "Frontier Thesis," which stated that the American frontier was the wellspring of its creativity and virility as a civilization. As the Western United States was gradually becoming less of a frontier and more of a part of America, many believed that overseas expansion was vital to maintaining the American spirit.
The publication of Alfred T. Mahan's The Influence of Sea Power upon History in 1890, which advocated three factors crucial to The United States' ascension to the position of "world power": the construction of a canal in South America (later influencing the decision for the construction of the Panama Canal), expansion of the U.S. naval power, and the establishment of a trade/military post in the Pacific, so as to stimulate trade with China. This publication had a strong influence on the idea that a strong navy stimulated trade, and influenced policy makers such as Theodore Roosevelt and other proponents of a large navy.

The 21st century United States Navy maintains a sizable presence in the world, deploying in such areas as East Asia, Southern Europe, and the Middle East. Its ability to project force onto the littoral regions of the world, engage in forward areas during peacetime, and rapidly respond to regional crises makes it an active player in American foreign and defense policy. The United States Navy is the largest in the world with a tonnage greater than that of the next 17 largest combined[4] and has a budget of $127.3 billion for the 2007 fiscal year.[5] The US Navy also possesses the world's largest carrier fleet, with 11 carriers in service and 2 under construction.

Aircraft carriers are the major strategic arm of the Navy. The U.S. Navy has the largest carrier fleet in the world. The carriers allow U.S. air power to reach most areas of the world. The US Navy has as many aircraft carriers as the rest of the world combined, and its carriers are much larger and more powerful than those of the rest of the world. Following below is a list of all carriers (and their homeports) on active duty or under construction as of January 21, 2004.

Wikipedia
[url=http://www.monthlyreview.org/0302editr.htm]