America is the most powerful nation EVER!!!

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posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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Hi There,

America is the most powerful nation on earth? By what criteria are you making such a boast? Yes, in conflict with Iran, the US should by all accounts lessen Iran's ability to be a threat to the stability of the region in that part of the world. By hitting essential points of Iran's infrastructure you could no doubt cripple that country's military ability. Yet, this ability to weaken countries whom do not have the resources to hit the mainland of America, does not make America the most powerful country, but certainly, the US holds one of the most technological militaries on the earth...but it is not alone in owning and having the ability to use technology.

The day may come when it picks out and goes into a conflict with the wrong foe, one that holds the resources to hit mainland US soil, and will then receive a taste of its own 'shock and awe' in response. The American population does not have a historical psychology to deal effectively with an sustained attack and bombardment upon its cities and civilian population centers. 911, as shocking and as tragic as it was, would be nothing compared to all out war against a foe whose technology and ordanance can reach the heart of the US. What you need is a clear and balanced perspective, because in your misguided arrogance you are nationalistically consigning millions of your own compatriots to horrific and appalling theoretical deaths and casualties.

Other countries uninvolved in such a conflict will await for the hostilities to abate, and will then finish off whatever is left of America and the other country. Quickly moving in to secure whatever resources are worth having. America's military is just as much afraid of the 'nuke' as the other country's military is. Once they fly, nothing is winnable...all is destroyable...and that includes you (and I, of course) tucked away behind the monitor and keyboard. Most powerful nation...by what criteria?




posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999

Nope - I have to disagree. In an historical context, the Roman Empire was by far the most powerful nation ever. Period. At their height, they controlled pretty well every nation in the then known world in an iron grip! The British empire comes next. The current US 'empire' is a distant third at best.. History books can be very informative if you actually take the time to read them...

J.


You have a decent argument, but you are mentioning empires instead of nations. The Romans had a very strong empire and in historical term, was Italy they really more powerful than Greece at it's height. Then China and Mongolia would both have something to say, but once again, these are empires, not really nations in modern terms.

Your mention of Great Britain forgoes the notion that America kicked their asses out of the Colonies, and they were a world player then. They may have been more powerful in the next 50 years, but then other nations came into play. England was a powerful player with world dominance, but they were an Island. Their forces in India and Hong Kong would have been useless if their homeland was attacked.

The general context of the question for this thread is nations. Powerful nation is a multi edge. I believe with all my red, white, and blue corpuscles that The USA is the most militarily powerful nation, ever; until this time in history. We can be a planet killer, even Russia couldn't claim that, they would be a close second in military power.

China has a very strong case for most powerful status for economic and growing military. They really are the world's leading economy regardless of how any true America feels. They have the military to knock out an enemy with nuclear missiles, but it would be suicide on their part. Within 50 years, providing there is no general war, I would state that without a doubt, China will be the most powerful nation, ever.

Good ideas on your part with historical context.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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Based on what I know (which may be very little,) I must concur that, should the United States want choose to do so, and should it do so in an unrestrained fashion and with maximum efficacy, the Armed Forces of the United States could subdue, destroy, and render ineffective any Iranian military resistance within a relatively short period of time. Mere hours might be stretching it, however it is indeed possible, as the strategy employed in Iraq was a modification of the "shock and awe" concept, and thus was arguably not a total application of the military's true potential power.

The United States Armed Forces are capable of levels of situational awareness, air superiority, communication, coordination, and transportation which are, based on what I know (which again may be very little) completely unparalleled in human history. If they wanted to, and chose to do so effectively, I believe they could do it without any significant resistance. The air campaign in the Balkans demonstrated that air power alone, with sufficient numbers and relentlessness, while perhaps not as quick as when used in combination with other capabilities, can be effective against even a reasonably determined and well deployed adversary. That would presumably need to be multiplied based on Iran's comparatively broader geographic footprint and the probable dispersion of its military assets during any such campaign, but I believe it would be well within the capability of the armed forces to do this.

All of this, of course, is contingent upon how fully the United States were to avail itself of its total military capabilities. There are several scenarios I can imagine in which, without adequate consideration of seemingly improbable yet not impossible contingencies, U.S. forces might suffer relatively significant losses, particularly in the naval context. Provided, however, that truly adequate planning and full utilization of our total capabilities were drawn upon, I believe direct military victory would be both inevitable and rapid.

That said, please note that these are observational statements, as opposed to ethical statements or endorsements of such action. Personally (and please take the use of the word "personally" literally, as it means that this is my opinion and mine alone - not intended to disparage, dissuade, or argue against anyone else's opinion,) I do not believe that war is ever justifiable. That's right, I said ever, as in under any circumstances whatsoever. I do not think less of or judge those who disagree, and I am well aware that it is an exceptionally unpopular opinion. I hope that it will receive at least the same respect and tolerance that I have offered others, including those who disagree with me.

A war with Iran would be a tragedy in my opinion, and would sadden me greatly. The potential for further escalation and the involvement of other nations in the conflict would be very real in my opinion, and the loss of life in that scenario could be enormous compared to other recent, relatively limited conflicts. I do not have an alternative solution to the apparent threat posed by Iran or similar state actors. Nor do I have a solution to the scourge of war, or any alternatives to the use of force that could result in ensuring our security. The lack of an alternative does nothing to blunt or dull my distaste for this option, however. My opinion is less a reasoned, analytical stance, than an emotional, intuitive reaction to a situation that causes me sorrow.

[edit on 4/18/2008 by AceWombat04]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by hinky
 


But WHEN does a nation become an 'EMPIRE' exactly? 'Empire' is a label used in retrospect in most cases. Not many 'empires' thought of themselves as such at the time they WERE 'empires'. The US is currently in 'Empire' building mode; and have been since the end of WW2 really. The Soviets put major brakes on much of the US empire building until the fall os the USSR, sure. But if you read the literature written by the very people now running the US, you will find they are quite happy to term the current situation as the US 'Empire' - they have no doubts about it. Rumsfeld, Cheny et al love that stuff.

The US is a planet killer you say? Nothing to brag about really though, is it? Whatever happened to the US as the 'good guys'?? Or is that now just a past pretension? These kinds of statements would not look out of place in a few so-called dictatorships of the recent past - or even the Roman Empire for that matter... Remember, the past is our greatest teacher.

J.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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In conclusion for the night-as I am about to go to bed....I have other pressing matters tomarrow.Let me state that some of you think I am a patriot-YES,I am.....as should all of you towards your many countries,if you are not than you need to delve deep into yourself and ask......"What do you stand for'?The truth?As Im sure many on here will say............The truth is only obtained by being one with your country..........I know that certain entities in the various world government are NOT truthful........but it is up to US to set the example.

Lastly,Some of you if not ALL of you probably misunderstood my intentions on this post.I am not saying the US is "almighty"and should "rule"the world.I am simply stating the fact that militarly we are the top power.Yes we have shortcomings-as do every nation,no we do not go to war for the right reasons sometimes,and yes we do "over police"........but if any of you that reside in another country an claim your perfect I would like to hear it.I do not know the fate of the US..........I do fear it may get bad.,but again I have faith that "we the people"will stand up and uphold my country.As I hope for all other countries.

However,I do believe that the US has the moral duty as the super power (militarly)to police and uphold civility of the planet.............sometimes like I earlier stated we do it for the wrong reasons.We(The United States)cannot hold back the tide of history-which by that I mean every "super powe"in the past as fallen........we will be no different........I only hope that when we do fall we do so in a manner benificial to the world.Keep in mind as you "bash"the US............Who will you look to in a time of need...........if your country cannot hold back a invasion force(hypothetical).....Of course and rightfully so you will turn to the US.

I simply wanted to make the point as far as the MILITARY is cncerned-know one on this planet can compare to us-I am not saying we are better because of it..............However I know I feel safe and NEVER worry about a foreign force invading my country-can you say the same?If so than great,if not,than know-as you should the US is here-as it happens by fate we are the superpower,to protect you and uphold your values.If you are a "power"country...like France or Britain.......even if your country should fail to protect you from any unforseen(at this point)force.......we will be here to help....as we have in the past.

I felt I should clear up my intent before everyone thinks I am some "US muscle flexer"-I am not.I hope you all have a good night,thank you.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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Dudes
Wat the he..k r we talking about .

Ppl dont have their own freedom in our own country and we say that we are gonna go war with other countries ... seems funny tho..

US govt is fully controlled by British and Illuminati... We dont even own Fed Reserve , NSA , NASA , FBI , CIA .. .. doesnt it seems intresting ..

Why r i soo intrested in other countries .... who the hell r u we look into other countries matters... ...

I guess its time to wake up and think of our own freedom rather going war .... in a few yrs .. we r goonna loose right to talk either ..

F-22 cant save countries economies ... some billions to produce each Raptor .. does our tax money worth it... our hard money ....



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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Can you people wake up? How many empires, nations must fall before Man realizes that war is useless. What positive effect does it have? Seriously, you people have to stop thinking its a dog-eat-dog world out there. How many more people must vanish before we finally realize what we have done. Everything was okay before World War One. Then it started getting real intense.

We are raised being taught that power is the key to life. This is where Einstein made an excellent point, "Power attracts men of low morality"
Then we have another quote.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

Here is something that the U.S. Government, China, and many others should keep in mind.
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."

Even George Washington, who lived almost 250 years ago left us a quote.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master"

Please leave the State of Mind of D.E.D. behind if humanity will have any future. Your are the Future.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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The US is still the most powerful. But once again, like building up Japan before WWII, the US is building China's economy as much as our own.

Making the world's most populous nation also the as or more technologically advanced than the US is just stupid.

Bill Clinton gave away the US moral high ground. China was only getting Russian technology, but during his administration through illegal tech transfers, China is getting the best from both Russia and the US!

As the economy takes more hits, the trade-imbalance increases, and more dependencies on China are put in place, the US stands to be in for the first conventional warfare attack on US soil by armed forces.

Not good.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Ok I said the last post was my last....but this is(I read the now 3 page thread).......I am not 12.I am 22 AND IN SCHOOL-PRE MED ACTUALLY,WITH A MINOR IN THEORETICAL ASTROPHYSICS.


Now........I understand that every major power in the past was "hated" and thought of badly....Rightfuly so,however as I mentioned this is a new era.............YES,the US does things it shouldnt.........but usualy we do things to benefit the world.I refer anyone to my last post with any other questions.


Note:The f-22a cost about 200 million..........not billions.(As if it matters)



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


is this the nazi patriotism section or somthin?

how about we just kill everyone, would you be amped about America then?

you seem pretty hyped about us policing the world,which no one country should be doing, i don't care if your the Sanct Kingdom (obscure reference i'm sure you you wont get)

my point is, if you don't see the wrong in what your saying, then you are too far gone to even converse with



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Wow

you seem a little too amped about policing the world

no one nation should ever be in charge of doing that, especially a country as corrupt as America

i mean seriously , you sound delusional , or like someone who's paid to be patriotic

do you read? like books? without pictures?

howzabout we just go to war with everyone, cause if we all had that attitude we would be wiped off the map , and rightfully so!

do you even know why we are at war? really .....

cause you sound pretty clueless



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


we would have no need to control Iran we would smash and grab and get out, or just mass genocide. We could easily erase Iraq as well but for some odd reason choose not to, we are trying to help reestablish a working government there and there are way to many bleeding hearts here and may to much mainstream media there to let us do it with a heavy hand. SO the bleeding heart should shut the hell up let us do our job the fast and efficient way and get the hell out, but no they won't, and if anything like that ever happens to us they will be expecting us to protect them, I say we should use them as shields.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by goukilock
 


sorry i didn't know this post made it through, my connection messed up

didn't mean to make the same point twice



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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I don't think the other nations who have dealing with Iran will just stand by and let the US invade even if we do the price we will pay will be huge.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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I think Russia is more powerful than the US!



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by hinky
 


But WHEN does a nation become an 'EMPIRE' exactly? 'Empire' is a label used in retrospect in most cases. Not many 'empires' thought of themselves as such at the time they WERE 'empires'. The US is currently in 'Empire' building mode; and have been since the end of WW2 really.

Whatever happened to the US as the 'good guys'??

Remember, the past is our greatest teacher.

J.


The Romans actually had a great 500 year run as a republic, but then...

Wikipedia says:The Roman Empire is the phase of the ancient Roman civilization characterized by an autocratic form of government and large territorial holdings in Europe and the Mediterranean. The Roman Empire succeeded the 500-year-old Roman Republic (510 BC – 1st century BC), which had been weakened by the civil wars of the Late Republic, and continued as the Byzantine Empire until 1453.[4] Several dates are commonly proposed to mark the transition from Republic to Empire, including the date of Julius Caesar's appointment as perpetual dictator (44 BC), the victory of Caesar's heir Octavian at the Battle of Actium (September 2 31 BC), and the Roman Senate's granting to Octavian the honorific Augustus. (January 16 27 BC).[5]

The Roman Empire is still active today, it was transmuted into the Roman Church. The Roman Catholic religion is the closest thing this planet has had to a one world ruler. Thanks to the Crusades in Euro-Asia and to Spanish colonialism in the Americas. The Pope and his Jesuits rule from "Vatican City" The Pope is currently dictating his authority in NYC, where the Catholic church is the largest property owner

Wikipedia
The British Empire was the largest empire in history and, for over a century, the foremost global power. It was a product of the European age of discovery, which began with the maritime explorations of the 15th century, that sparked the era of the European colonial empires. By 1921, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, approximately one-quarter of the world's population.[1] It covered about 36.6 million km² (14.2 million square miles),[2] about a quarter of Earth's total land area. As a result, its legacy is widespread, in legal and governmental systems, economic practice, militarily, educational systems, sports, and in the global spread of the English language. At the peak of its power, it was often said that "the sun never sets on the British Empire" because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous colonies or subject nations.[3]

The British can also take credit for creating Protestantism, the opposition to the Catholic church. The King James Bible was most likely written by New Atlantis author and Shakespeare ghost write Sir Francis Bacon.

The British empire is still active today as the United Sates military located in Washington DC and the world of "commercial law" which is based upon British Maritime Law. The world financial industry is dictated by the House of Rothschild banking elite located in "The City of London"

The US Empire is a little tougher to pinpoint. Woodrow Wilson was a major enabler by helping the Federal Reserve to be formed in 1913. FDR started taking money directly from American paychecks in 1933(Emergency Banking Act). I would site 1947's National Security Act, which formed the CIA, the NSA(National Security Association, the department of Defense(replacing the WAR department) and creating the National Security Council (President,Vice President,Sec of Defense, Sec of State) which has the power to ignore the US Constitution if they and they alone decide that there is a threat to "national security"

The past is a great teacher as long as you observe it properly !



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 


he is not talking about killing every single Iranian, take out the majority and the rest is just chaff.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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I believe anything is possible.

But its highly unlikely Iran would come close to winning against us. Its a very different threat then Iraq. The younger generation there is all for change, and the war would be very different (likely air to ground precision attacks).

The young generation would most likely be on our side.

Iraq/Vietnam were both very unique situations. We leveled Iraq twice,once when it had one of the most powerful miltaries in the world. The reason Iraq is how it is now is because we went in unplanned for what would come after we ran a clean sweep.

A lesson was learned from that and a lot of training has been updated which would be well applied in Iran. We would have more international and regional support, so it does not concern me.

Honestly I think the US could easily attack the whole world (minus china) and win. Chinas the only country I believe will ever have the capability of bringing us to our knees, and even then the concentration of people in that country gives us the upper hand.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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Question. If the United States is THE MOST POWERFUL country in the world, why is it that we not only rely on foreign slave labor(READ: China, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan, Mexico, the list goes on) to make all of our goods but that same country(China, in this case) could destroy us in a heart beat and swipe of a pen by calling in all of our debt to them and them alone?

A slave can not have any power if someone else owns his livelihood. In this case, China and all other nations which hold our debt own our livelihood. We, the citizens, are nothing but slaves to consumerism. Now go buy a plastic, Chinese slave-made American flag and wave it proudly. Children have worked their fingers to the bone so you can briefly feel a patriotic and nationalistic fervor when you wave it in the air and "never forget."

We are not the most powerful nation in the world. The Greeks called it hubris, an exaggerated self-pride, arrogance or self-confidence. The operative word being EXAGGERATED.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by Charity
 


There is no economic "catastrophe" in America...The economy is in a downswing this has happened before, and it is not just happening here in the US, our economy will take a positive turn as soon as we get a new president. Bush is our problem lets just hope that he next Prez is more like Good ol' Bill Clinton was for our economy.





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