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Best Special Forces debate null and void

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posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 08:47 PM
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I think it's a pretty clear cut decision.

British Special Forces quitting to cash in on Iraq

Defence and special forces sources have told The Scotsman that such is the demand from private military companies in Britain and the United States who are operating in Iraq for former Special Air Service and Special Boat Service soldiers that, between May 2003 and December 2004, between 40 and 60 men are expected to have sought premature voluntary release, or PVR, from the army and Royal Marines.

"Security companies want ex-Brit SF [special forces] because they have the most amazing history," said John Davidson, who runs Rubicon International, a British security company with interests in Iraq.

"The SAS are extremely well-trained, low-profile, not waving flags. They go about things in a quiet manner, they are the crême de la crême," added Mr Davidson, an 11-year veteran of Britain’s special forces.

Such is the demand for the security skills of former SAS NCOs and officers in Iraq that pre-tax pay can range from £200 to £700 per day.

Going over it again and again is now just an excercise in nationalism. The best of the best are usually the ones who invented it.

cheers




posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 08:51 PM
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When was the last time SAS British/Australian was really challenged though? WW2 ends and then the only serious conflict you guys get to see is Falklands, meanwhile American SPF fight a brutal psychological and military campaign in SE Asia, Middle East, and South America. I think even though you might invent it, MOUTS, Jungle Warfare, Boat Warfare, all of it comes out of the American victories and defeats in places like Mogadeishu. Really if you are gonna argue for Britan, how can you underwrite the accomplishments of every special forces unit that America fielded in the NAM. You guys never had a NAm so you should just watch your step thats all Im gonna say. NAM. 10+ Years of Brutal Conflict, we perfected the art of silent killing.



posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 08:53 PM
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Sth East Asia, Mid-East the Brits and Aussies were in most of those conflicts too... not just the USA...



posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
Sth East Asia, Mid-East the Brits and Aussies were in most of those conflicts too... not just the USA...


Not Korea, or at least that what was argued in the last thread about special forces, but I think the Nam is where American Special Forces shined.



posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:01 PM
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Yes, but the Australian SASR also fought in vietnam not just the u.s., they were considered to be one of the two best combat forces in vietnam.



posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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We did have a Nam.

Ma Rung - "Phantoms of the Jungle"

Im not underwriting the accomplishments of any US Special Forces, they are great. Nor am I even arguing for Britain. Its just a fact.

(Maybe its you who is underwriting the Aust SAS by not even taking the time out to Google their operational involvements.)



posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:08 PM
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ok, one last time! Most major SF are very good and have strengths and weaknesses! The SAS are AMONG the best in the world! SEALs/DELTA are just as good! However, if you want to make it who is the absolute best in the world, im gunna say this: Even if we assume that the US SF soldier is less skilled, US SF are STILL THE BEST BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE BACKING THEM UP!

And this is a big assumption which in the real world is not true! A very good friend of mine is a seal. Under water demolition expert to be specific! HE IS A BAD S.O.B. I'd take the seals based on him because i have shot with him. I have seen what he can do. He is trilingual. These guys do not mess around.

Again, every SF group has their own areas of expertice, but when it comes down to it, untill someone dethroans the US as the only world power, im sticking with my fellow countrymen as the best.



posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 08:35 AM
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US SF are STILL THE BEST BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE BACKING THEM UP!


I disagree.

With a easy life SF are not trained for the real brutle stuff. After all the training they are still used to their comfort.

Out,
Russian



posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 10:54 AM
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please let say this u say american SF forces have more backing them then may i ask then y did u get ur asses quite severly kicked in black hawk down i mean the mission was a sucess but u lost 2 many men 2 call it a victory
and if ur SF u dont need lots of stuff backing them up also we dont go around saying "look @ us we were in the sas/sbs " if ur the sas/sbs then u dont tell any1 u were not even ur family the sas/sbs are the most (sorry but its true) ruthless efficient,well trained units in the world.
i mean ur under more scrutiny in the companys than when u try out. also iv seen 1 of ma mates who came out our army he didnt go into the sas but he can still shoot a target @ 200 yards with an SA-80 while the target is pointing at him sideways and the targets less than half an inch thick (thats quite an achevment considering how bad our weapons are
:lol

also the navy seals are trained 2 the same standards as our royal marines !



posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
please let say this u say american SF forces have more backing them then may i ask then y did u get ur asses quite severly kicked in black hawk down i mean the mission was a sucess but u lost 2 many men 2 call it a victory

Did you ever happen to read the book, or are you just commenting on what you saw from the movie?

and if ur SF u dont need lots of stuff backing them up also we dont go around saying "look @ us we were in the sas/sbs " if ur the sas/sbs then u dont tell any1 u were not even ur family the sas/sbs are the most (sorry but its true) ruthless efficient,well trained units in the world.

Our guys don't go around saying that either. Don't know where you got that from.


also the navy seals are trained 2 the same standards as our royal marines !

When your Royal Marines start going through BUD/S, the I will agree with you.




posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by devilwasp
please let say this u say american SF forces have more backing them then may i ask then y did u get ur asses quite severly kicked in black hawk down i mean the mission was a sucess but u lost 2 many men 2 call it a victory

Did you ever happen to read the book, or are you just commenting on what you saw from the movie?

and if ur SF u dont need lots of stuff backing them up also we dont go around saying "look @ us we were in the sas/sbs " if ur the sas/sbs then u dont tell any1 u were not even ur family the sas/sbs are the most (sorry but its true) ruthless efficient,well trained units in the world.

Our guys don't go around saying that either. Don't know where you got that from.


also the navy seals are trained 2 the same standards as our royal marines !

When your Royal Marines start going through BUD/S, the I will agree with you.





you ever read about Royal Marine selection?
If not shut up and stop commenting?



posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 02:17 PM
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you ever read about Royal Marine selection?
If not shut up and stop commenting?

Yes I have, and your point is what?



posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 02:46 AM
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Then you should know it's roughly the same as BUD/S...
I think, instead of us being SAS groupies, your a typical average american who thinks the US is so elite.... Which makes you a US groupie.



posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by browha
Then you should know it's roughly the same as BUD/S...
I think, instead of us being SAS groupies, your a typical average american who thinks the US is so elite.... Which makes you a US groupie.


So then, what is there equivilant of Hell Week? When is the open ocean swim?

BTW, of course I am a US groupie.



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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The best special forces are the ones you don't even know about ie, classified to the public.

Who knows what different countries have in their back pocket?

There is word starting to come out here in the US about a few special ops groups such as "greyfox."



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 08:54 AM
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Just so you know
I've known about Grey Fox for 6 months and discussed it with people in mi5



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 09:14 AM
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six months is a blink of an eye in the big picture.....

so sue me

regardless, if greyfox has come out in the last year or so, imagine what else is out there that we are not being told?

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by Facefirst]



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
then may i ask then y did u get ur asses quite severly kicked in black hawk down


Well, in fact we did not get our * kicked in Black Hawk Down. THAT WAS A MOVIE! No actors were hurt or killed in the making of it.

What happened in the Mog was what we in the profession call a SNAFU. The plan was sound, and execution was deliberate, however, we NEVER leave a man behind.

Casualties incurred were so outside mission parameters. We were protecting our pilots and destroying equipment in accordance with doctrine to prevent enemy capture.

No plan survives first contact. In this case things went very wrong. Stuff happens. But if you ask any Ranger or Delta operator that was there, they would tell you that the mission was a success, as they have told many before, because all mission objectives were met.

And not only did I see the movie, but I read the book. And not only did I read the book, but I have had the privelege of actually speaking with people who deployed to Somalia about how things are there.

In the end, what we lost was an infowar in which we never intended to engage. We weren't there to fight a war. We were there to make sure people got fed.

DeltaChaos



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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You a bunch of sad tossers.
Can't you just let this thing be?
How many thread have been wasted talking about this? Too many. Maybe the mods should start a forum for SF groupies so you can all feck off there.

All Sf are excellent and should the * hit the fan I'd be happy for any of them as back-up.



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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point well taken, agreed.



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