Group of Gibraltar's Barbary Apes to be Killed, page 1

Group of Gibraltar's Barbary Apes to be Killed, page

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Topic started on 17-4-2008 @ 07:45 PM by Icarus Rising

A renegade group of Gibraltar's Barbary apes has annoyed residents so much that authorities announced plans Thursday to kill them.

A cluster of 25 Barbary apes _ a species of monkey usually weighing about 15-25 pounds _ moved to a popular beach-side area some months ago where they have been stealing food, entering rooms through open windows and harassing tourists, officials said.

The territory's tourism minister, Ernest Britto, has decided to kill the beach dwelling group, government spokesman Francis Cantos said.

link pending

Now that's just great. You would think they would make efforts to capture and relocate the little trouble makers before just killing them off like this. That is apparently not the case, though.

"The decision was not taken lightly. It is a last resort," Britto told the Gibraltar Chronicle newspaper.

The newspaper said two monkeys have already been captured and given lethal injections.

Last resort? I say if you can capture and kill them by lethal injection, you can capture and relocate them out of harm's way.

The British Army is responsible for their care.

The British Army, which is responsible for their care, has in the past often had to replenish Gibraltar's population with monkeys from Africa. Barbary apes also live in Morocco and north Algeria.

I think there needs to be a public outcry about this. We are supposed to be stewards of the environment. God Himself has given us dominion over the creatures of the earth. If this is how we are going to go about it, we don't deserve the job.

reply posted on 21-4-2008 @ 09:25 PM by shortywarn

stories like this make me mad as h-ll!!!!!!!! who do we, people, think we are???

these monkees have every right to be and survive,,,, we keep destroying any and all open lands,,, encroaching animals envoronments and get p-ssed when they become a nuisance.. we ruin everything,,,, where is nature to live????

i live in nj and people are up in arms bears and some wild coyotes have been scouring outskirts of neighborhoods, and same thing "kill em", problem solved. nj is the most densely populated per square mile, of course this is gonna happen... we overtake their habitats and get mad because they're around,,,, animals don't relocate,,,and besides we're the problem.

how dare these animals show there faces and not hide from us or relocate so we as "king" humans won't be inconvienenced.

the nerve of us idiotic humans,,,, and it's as if people can't connect the fact we are taking their land,,,, not them invading us

geez!!!!!

reply posted on 21-4-2008 @ 09:45 PM by stumason

It's all very well crying about having to kill some monkeys, but take a step back for a minute.

These monkeys have learned this behaviour and recapturing them and releasing them will just mean they will come back and continue the harassment. They are quite capable of harming humans, especially small children. They know they can get food from humans and have no fear of humans.

On a territory the size of Gibraltar, where exactly are you going to locate them that is away from humans? There's only 2.6 square miles of land to start with.

Once every year, a census is conducted in order to actualise data and monitor reproductive success of the whole population. These demographic data are important for the management of the population generally, but also when it comes to the point of fertility regulation in selected individuals. Since Barbary macaque females reproduce well, the population on Gibraltar is steadily increasing, which in turn puts pressure on the limited habitat. Population control is therefore an essential part of the effective management of the Gibraltar colony

Gibraltar Barbary Macaques

reply posted on 21-4-2008 @ 10:57 PM by Icarus Rising

They could be captured and relocated to the wild in Africa. Why do they have to stay on Gibraltar? The article states, in the last quote I posted, that the British Army has replenished the population with apes from Africa in the past. Why can't the process work in reverse? What kind of sense does it make to bring the apes over to Gibraltar just to kill them? I'd say the problem was created by the British Army bringing the apes to the rock to begin with.

reply posted on 21-4-2008 @ 11:11 PM by stumason

reply to post by Icarus Rising

The MONKEYS (not Apes) were on the Rock before the British ever arrived. They have been restocked when numbers were low, but only because of a superstition that says if the monkeys ever leave the Rock, then the British will as well.

Because the monkeys are accustomed to Humans, they wouldn't live five minutes back in Africa, where they don't know how to survive. I'm sure death by injection is better than death by starvation.

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 10:40 AM by Icarus Rising

The article calls them Barbary Apes, so I am sticking with that, regardless of your belittling attempts at correction. As if there is any differece between monkeys and apes when it comes to killing them needlessly.

Again, the article says the apes have moved into this area. Before they moved into the area near the resort, they must have been foraging for themselves. If the apes were captured and relocated to Africa, it is highly likely they would go back to foraging for their food.

I reject what I consider your flawed assumptions and callous conclusions. You are, however, entitled to make them, as you wish. It would seem to me that if the British army is superstitious about Barbary Apes staying on Gibraltar, they would be doubly concerned about killing them, for any reason.

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 02:08 PM by stumason

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
The article calls them Barbary Apes, so I am sticking with that, regardless of your belittling attempts at correction. As if there is any differece between monkeys and apes when it comes to killing them needlessly.

An Orca isn't a Whale, but it's still called a Killer Whale. Big difference between monkeys and apes. If you feel it belittling, then perhaps you should do some research before spouting your mouth off.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Again, the article says the apes have moved into this area. Before they moved into the area near the resort, they must have been foraging for themselves. If the apes were captured and relocated to Africa, it is highly likely they would go back to foraging for their food.

What resort? Do you know anything about Gibraltar?

It's 2.6 square miles in size. It consists of a town, a hrabour and an airport. Thats it. Oh, and a dirty great Rock.

All the monkeys there are used to humans and regularly pester people for food, forage in bins and steal from people. This particular group has become such a nuisance that they need to be got rid of.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I reject what I consider your flawed assumptions and callous conclusions. You are, however, entitled to make them, as you wish. It would seem to me that if the British army is superstitious about Barbary Apes staying on Gibraltar, they would be doubly concerned about killing them, for any reason.

I reject your tree-hugging, save-all-animals-just-because lack of knowledge about an area you probably didn't know existed until you read the article. It is plainly obvious you know nothing of the territory. I've actually been there when my father was in the Army. My brother was also there during his time in the Navy.

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 02:32 PM by Icarus Rising

reply to post by stumason

An Orca isn't a Whale, but it's still called a Killer Whale.

Oh, yes it is. All dolphins are whales. Do you know anything about whales, or do you just enjoy sticking your foot in your mouth?

The pack, part of the territory's population of around 200, invaded a sandy beach area called Catalan Bay where they remained because they were able to rummage for food. The area is popular with tourists and has a luxury hotel.

source

Luxury hotel/resort, dolphin/whale, what's the difference? And what is a hrabour?

I am a hunter and fisherman, not a tree-hugger. I respect nature. What I consider needless, unnecessary killing always bothers me. No, I've never been to Gibraltar, though my brother has and he told me about it. I'm happy for you that you have been there, but based on your perspective, I don't think it has done you much good.

Peace.

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 04:17 PM by stumason

reply to post by Icarus Rising

Haha, dolphins aren't whales. Don't be a fool. They're cetaceans, but not whales. Thats like saying we're rats, as rats are mammals too....

From your own link:

Dolphins belong to the family Delphinidae. Dolphins possess a distinct beak. Their teeth are conical in shape. Most species of dolphins are larger than porpoises, with the males usually being larger than the females. The family Delphinidae is the largest and most diverse family of the cetacean order and includes 26 living species. Several species of dolphins are found in Hawaiian waters.

Bottom line is, these monkeys are a threat to humans and are obviously not eligible for relocation, otherwise that would have been an option. The UK has very strict laws regarding animal welfare, so this is not just some chap signing their death warrant for the sake of killing some monkeys.

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 04:28 PM by Icarus Rising

Also from the same link:

All dolphins are toothed whales belonging to the sub-order, odontocetes, of the order cetacea

Nothing like rats and humans, though some humans certainly act like rats. I see you didn't touch the luxury hotel/resort bit.

Anyway, I appreciate your statement that the authorities have investigated every option and have no choice but to humanely euthanize (if there is such a thing) the monkeys.

I respect your contributions to ATS and apologize for my snotty tone. Let's carry on, shall we?

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 04:39 PM by stumason

reply to post by Icarus Rising

We could quibble over animal family trees all day, but I doubt we'd ever agree. To me, I have always been taught Whales and Dolphins are separate, if related, animals. Same as monkeys and apes.

I didn't touch the resort bit as Gibraltar isn't a resort. If anything, it's what remains of 300 years of extensive military fortification. I didn't feel the need to argue over the fact. It's a nice place though, you should visit

I probably came across as aloof and snotty too. Sorry old bean

For the record, I don't like "culling" animals much either, but sometimes, for the sake of the larger population being able to exist alongside humans or for their own welfare at large, it is necessary.

The same thing is happening in Africa with elephants. Due to the massive amount of protection they get now and breeding programmes, their numbers have shot up so much that the environment cannot handle them. For the sake of the larger population, some must be culled so enough food exists for all, otherwise the whole ecosystem is threatened.

reply posted on 22-4-2008 @ 04:50 PM by Icarus Rising

I understand. I just don't equate dolphins/whales with rats as pointy nosed humans.

How do you explain sperm whales, pilot whales, and other toothed whales? I thought the division was between baleen whales and toothed whales with dolphins belonging to the latter.

I guess it is kind of like asking if corn is a vegetable or a grain. I grew up thinking it was a vegetable, but now I lean toward grain.

I realize Gibraltar isn't a resort. There does seem to be a luxury hotel in the Catalan Bay area, though.

Sometimes there is no recourse but to cull animals. I am satisfied from our discourse that authorities are conviced there is no other viable option here.

reply posted on 5-5-2012 @ 02:09 PM by Dr Cosma

The MONKEYS (not Apes)

reply to post by stumason

Hey I know it's an old thread but, It's the APES not the monkeys

Monkeys have tails.
I'm from Gibraltar and I know them very well lol, I also know all the details of the culling of the apes, the insides and outsides of the whole thing.
Some apes were relocated to Germany.

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