Iran the most powerful (nation) , says Ahmadinejad

Originally posted by tyranny22
If we're speaking in terms of a tactical air war, then we would get bogged down in another quagmire. Though, we'd be setting no troops on the ground, Iran has one of the more formidable Air Forces and Defense Systems for a nation of it's size. And don't forget where Iran gets it's technology? You think Russia and China have any interest in Iran? I think so. They'll be feeding Iran what they need, just as we did in Afghanistan when the Taliban fought AND defeated mighty mother Russia.

I have no time to reply to this no, and all the other "expert" military opinions displayed in this thread by people with questionable knowledge, or lack thereof, in the subject. In the meantime head over to the military forums for some background information on the topic and I'll get back to you in a little bit.

Why doesn't everyone stop correlating Powerful Nation to Military Might?


No one, not even the Iranian President, has made mention of Military Superiority.

Why must everything be so extremist around here? It's as though ATS breeds the Digital Al Quaida.

A man in the Iranian President's position has almost a nationalistic responsibility to say nothing less than what he DID say.

AB1

Where is the commen sense, is everyone lost in a haze of dumbness. I don't know how anyone could possibly contimplate the idea that Iran would be able to hold the U.S. off. I'm not exactly a fan of the U.S. govt right now but I won't let that cloud my judgement, maybe you want to see the U.S. fall, fantastic, you should still be able to use the logistical region of your brain even when bias is clouding your though paterns. But then again thats giving too much credit to the human brain, most people arn't as smart as they fool themselves into believing. Why should I or anyone get into all the military capabilities of the U.S. and lack there of from the Iranians, I mean if these people can't figure it out for themselves it's pointless to explain it. Who cares what crazy politicians say, talk is nothing more than manipulated air.

i do not know how iran stacks up against the rest of the world in military might; however, having lived in Iran, know the majority of male population carries riffles and are excellent markmen. they are a fierce and proud people and once boated the most powerful Persian empire.

i left Iran in '74 because of the undercurrent of hostility and killings together w/disappearance of both British and American citizens.

They are posturing for war. It seems inevitable at this point. It's a matter of who strikes first USA or Israel.

Everyone seems to be talking about how we would destroy Iran which is absolutely the truth. We could have destroyed Iraq but that is not the agenda. Occupying these countries is a whole other matter. Imagine our troops fighting an entire nation, imagine someone trying to occupy the U.S. Every inch of every mile would be our citizens trying to figure out a way to kill the occupiers, there would be no difference in Iran for Iranian citizens. We will never win over the people in the Middle East and occupying these countries will be a never ending string of deaths of our soldiers and attacks on innocent Westerners around the globe. We need to get out completely and let the chips fall where they may. Our only interest in occupying the Middle East is Israel and that is certainly not reason enough.

For my twopennence worth,

USA were extremely efficient in reducing Iraq in the original Gulf war - with the aerial bombing (and for that matter in Sariavo). They must have learnt a lot of lessons then and if it came to getting aerial advantage - they would/could probably do it over most countries.

Remember how many aircraft are tied up with Iraq?

reply to post by Rilence


HAHAHA.WOW,The only way you can respond is to say "check your spelling"what a ignorent person.All that proves is you cant make an argument and have to resort to 5th grade name calling about spelling,wow......what are you like 5?

OK,well I guess some people put me on ignore cause they are to childish to respond.Ok..................Here we go AGAIN.


One ...."Irans formitable air force?"Are you kidding me..........ONE f-22 could and WOULD destroy 10 of their jets BEFORE they knew it was there...........you all just are not looking at the facts.

I dont know what else to say.Oh I almost forgot-"Humble"the US............do something then!You all should be "humble"that we dont want to invade your country ........cause we could EASILY.Stop making the GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA out to be some dark empire with "Darth Vader"at its helm.

This is all really in your minds.......the US will never lose a war in which it matters............NEVER,unless Nukes are used-than everyone will lose.

Originally posted by jkrog08
OK,well I guess some people put me on ignore cause they are to childish to respond.Ok..................Here we go AGAIN.


One ...."Irans formitable air force?"Are you kidding me..........ONE f-22 could and WOULD destroy 10 of their jets BEFORE they knew it was there...........you all just are not looking at the facts.

I dont know what else to say.Oh I almost forgot-"Humble"the US............do something then!You all should be "humble"that we dont want to invade your country ........cause we could EASILY.Stop making the GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA out to be some dark empire with "Darth Vader"at its helm.

This is all really in your minds.......the US will never lose a war in which it matters............NEVER,unless Nukes are used-than everyone will lose.

O.K, I don't usually do this but...

Are U President Mahmmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, by any chance? Because you certainly seem to be spouting off the same type of manure. I am sorry but I had to ask the question. A little common sense for you - a lock is only as good as it is a deterrent and functionally depends almost entirely upon the integrity and strength of the structure onto which it is attached i.e If the door is crap or a window is open the lock is useless. How does this statement apply here? Well, an F-22 is only as good as its pilot, if the pilot is crap the F-22 is useless. Need I talk about "friendly fire" from USAF???

Now here is an even trickier concept for you to grasp: the Iranian people (Persians) are very clever. They are akin to the Germanic people's of Europe - very resourceful, inventive, aggressive and determined. Iran (before the Islamic Revolution) was a democratic nation where alcohol was allowed and the women wore mini-skirts, get the picture? Iran's recent history is but a small blemish on a very long history. If you seriously believe that the USA could invade and subdue the Iranian spirit without consequence then you must be either very young, very naive or you're just being sarcastic. Do some research. Try a reverse translation Google search (change an English term to Farsi then search in Farsi then paste the URL of a Farsi page into Google.com and click "Translate this page into English"); perhaps you will learn something about the Iranian mindset and society.

Very few people would doubt that the USA could invade Iran and win the initial military battle. Likewise, very few people believe that the USA would not lose the long term battle to capture the hearts and minds of the Iranian people. An invasion is not like a territorial dispute: invasion is long term and expensive politically and economically as well as costly in time and life. Jkrog08, if you're really so sure of your abilities then you should put your self on the line and join-up for one of the current battles. Once there, you will soon change your mind (I here that in Afghanistan, they skin people alive (by peeling back from incisions made behind the ears) for fun and interrogate captives by slicing, bit-by-bit, fingers and toes from tip to base (that's right, they don't cut off each finger in one go, they chop as one would a cucumber). When you're there, learn to hum your favorite nursery rhyme because it will save your sanity while you're being butchered.

My apologies to more sensible posters, sorry for this rant.

[edit on 18/4/08 by Rapacity]

Originally posted by jkrog08
Why dont YOU deny ignorence(once again the word is being used like "holy"text,and overused)

I do every day, and I'm doing it now, because "Deny ignorance is what this site is all about.

If you comprehended what I said then you would know that I am not saying the US won WWII,BUT WITHOUT us Europe would be speaking Russian or German.

Thats funny, because you actually wrote this;

Originally posted by jkrog08
Are you serious?We let Russia take Moscow........if not for us Britain would have fallen,than Germany would have easily defeated Russia.Not only did we win in that theater..but also in the Pacific (BY OURSELVES)

Heads up. Deep breath. Now read the following very very carefully.

1. The Russians never lost Moscow. Its their capital. The Germans got to within about 40 miles of it.

2. The Germans were never going to invade Britain after the Battle of Britain, which was before the US entered the war.

3. The US had nothing to do with the Russian defense, and subsequent counterattack whatsoever, apart from - as I said - supplying some lend-lease equipment.

You talk about all the Russians great technology..................

I talked about the Russians using alot of their own equipment. I didn't say it was great. I said they outnumbered the Germans.

HOLD UP-Are you aware that Germany was close to making a Atomic weapon,that could be delivered via v-2's

The V2 was not capable of carrying a nuclear device. It did not have the payload capacity. (There is a reason that specially fitted B-29's dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and thats because they were very big, because nuclear technology at the end of WW2 was very primitive)

The Nazis's were working on longer range missiles at Peenemunde, amongst other things but as their heavy water and nuclear programme was 4/5 years behind the allied one its doubtful there was never a direct competition between the two programmes.

or long range bombers(in production)not to mention the fighter jets they were working on that would blow away even the US at the time.

I'm very aware of the Nazi jet programme. The ME-262 was almost untouchable at speed, but it tended to snake when the guns were fired. Its achillies heal was that it was a pig to fly at low level. Typhoons and Mustangs would shoot them down as they landed. They were hard to maintain (the engines had a working life of 10 hours flying time) and they often caught fire on landing because of unused fuel, and a tendency for the undercarriage to collapse.

It is because of US bombings that the Germans never got the chance to bring any of these WAR WINNING technologies to reality,if the US didnt bomb them,they would have completed them and won the war-no doubt-ask any historian,better yet Ill ask my History Professor for you.

You ask him I'm sure he'll tell you about the RAF's 1000 bomber night time raids on the Ruhr valley and the US daytime ones, and probably give you extra homework assignments to bring you up to speed on the difference between what you think you know and real history. Lets hope he denies some ignorance, huh?



[edit on 18/0408/08 by neformore]

[edit on 18/0408/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by Rapacity

Are U President Mahmmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, by any chance? Because you certainly seem to be spouting off the same type of manure. I am sorry but I had to ask the question. A little common sense for you - a lock is only as good as it is a deterrent and functionally depends almost entirely upon the integrity and strength of the structure onto which it is attached i.e If the door is crap or a window is open the lock is useless. How does this statement apply here? Well, an F-22 is only as good as its pilot, if the pilot is crap the F-22 is useless. Need I talk about "friendly fire" from USAF???

Now here is an even trickier concept for you to grasp: the Iranian people (Persians) are very clever. They are akin to the Germanic people's of Europe - very resourceful, inventive, aggressive and determined. Iran (before the Islamic Revolution) was a democratic nation where alcohol was allowed and the women wore mini-skirts, get the picture? Iran's recent history is but a small blemish on a very long history. If you seriously believe that the USA could invade and subdue the Iranian spirit without consequence then you must be either very young, very naive or you're just being sarcastic. Do some research. Try a reverse translation Google search (change an English term to Farsi then search in Farsi then paste the URL of a Farsi page into Google.com and click "Translate this page into English"); perhaps you will learn something about the Iranian mindset and society.

Very few people would doubt that the USA could invade Iran and win the initial military battle. Likewise, very few people believe that the USA would not lose the long term battle to capture the hearts and minds of the Iranian people. An invasion is not like a territorial dispute: invasion is long term and expensive politically and economically as well as costly in time and life. Jkrog08, if you're really so sure of your abilities then you should put your self on the line and join-up for one of the current battles. Once there, you will soon change your mind (I here that in Afghanistan, they skin people alive (by peeling back from incisions made behind the ears) for fun and interrogate captives by slicing, bit-by-bit, fingers and toes from tip to base (that's right, they don't cut off each finger in one go, they chop as one would a cucumber). When you're there, learn to hum your favorite nursery rhyme because it will save your sanity while you're being butchered.

[edit on 18/4/08 by Rapacity]

Totally acurate, I don't think the U.S. or anyone can change their hearts and minds. If their is a war it won't be about passing out mini skirts and tequila, it's about humbling a violent oppressive nation that seems intent on exterminating the jewish people of Israel, not saying Israel hasn't done it's share to egg them on, but after 2500 years of moving from foster home to foster home the Israelites want to return home and have their own nation once again.If they are so intent on pushing their religion around and forcing it and it's laws on it's own people then, they could use some humbling just like the persian empire did.

Your kinda biting your own words when you say how strong their spirit is that their hearts and minds can't be captured. Well you said it once used to be a flourishing democracy where women had freedom and religious law like no alcohol was not the federal law. Yet they allowed fascist Islam to enslave them and minorities religions are persecuted. They are very weak indeed. But if there is a war I don't think the U.S. could give a piss about policing them, it would be about crushing their rising threat of Nuclear and military power. Honestly, they are not responcible enough to be playing with that kind of power when they can't even seperate church and state. I'm not necessarily speaking just to you Rapacity but when you defend these people it's like defending Nazi Germany. It's sick.

The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is an American fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It is primarily an air superiority fighter, but has multiple capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence roles. The United States Air Force considers the F-22 a critical component of the U.S. strike force.[1]

Faced with a protracted development period, the aircraft was variously designated F-22 and F/A-22 during the three years before formally entering US Air Force service in December 2005, as the F-22A. Lockheed Martin Aeronautics is the prime contractor and is responsible for the majority of the airframe, weapon systems and final assembly of the F-22. Program partner Boeing Integrated Defense Systems provides the wings, aft fuselage, avionics integration, and all of the pilot and maintenance training systems.

The F-22 is claimed by several sources to be the world’s most effective air superiority fighter. The US Air Force claims that the F-22 cannot be matched by any known or projected fighter aircraft.[1] Chief of the Australian Defence Force, then-Air Marshal Angus Houston, said in 2004 that the "F-22 will be the most outstanding fighter plane ever built."[5]




Stealth drones, GPS-guided smart munitions that hit precisely where aimed; anti-tank bombs that guide themselves; space-relayed data links that allow individual squad leaders to know exactly where American and opposition forces are during battle - the US military rolled out all this advanced technology, and more, in its conquest of Iraq.

The American military is the strongest the world has known, both in absolute terms and relative to other nations; stronger than the Wehrmacht in 1940, stronger than the legions at the height of Roman power. The extent of American military superiority has become almost impossible to overstate. The US sent five of its nine supercarrier battle groups to the region for the Iraq assault. A 10th Nimitz-class supercarrier is under construction. No other nation possesses so much as one supercarrier, let alone nine battle groups ringed by cruisers and guarded by nuclear submarines.

Russia has one modern aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, but it has about half the tonnage of an American supercarrier. The former Soviet navy did preliminary work on a supercarrier, but abandoned the project in 1992. Britain and France have a few small aircraft carriers. China decided against building one last year.

Any attempt to build a fleet that threatens the Pentagon's would be pointless, after all, because if another nation fielded a threatening vessel, American attack submarines would simply sink it in the first five minutes of any conflict. (The new Seawolf-class nuclear-powered submarine is essentially the futuristic supersub of The Hunt for Red October made real.) Knowing this, all other nations have conceded the seas to the US.



For years to come, no other nation is likely to rival American might. Which means the global arms race is over, with the US the undisputed heavyweight champion.


Gregg Easterbrook notes the overwhelming superiority of US military hardware, while Christian Lowe notes the overwhelming superiority of US military command and control.

One consequence of this overwhelming US superiority in conventional warfare is that other countries seem to have stopped competing:


The runaway advantage has been called by some excessive, yet it yields a positive benefit. Annual global military spending, stated in current dollars, peaked in 1985, at $1.3 trillion, and has been declining since, to $840 billion in 2002. That’s a drop of almost half a trillion dollars in the amount the world spent each year on arms. Other nations accept that the arms race is over.

For a link just Google "US military superiority"

reply to post by neformore


Ok.............TYPO on Moscow.I know it was Berlin..we let Russia take.

Second......(this is to who ever said the f-22 is only as good as its pilot)WRONG...........the f-22 has advanced computer targeting systems and guidence for flight.....let alone RADAR (not capitalizing that for importance,just thats the acronym(sp?))and targeting systems that can detect and kill enemies MILES before they KNOW WE ARE THERE.Do some research on the f-22.............Pilots are almost obsolete.

Third...............Rapacity...........Are you serious?Are you that much of a coward to tell someone else to go to war and get skinned alive?Does that make you feel good?Are you a socialpath?WHY DONT YOU FIGHT AND GET SKINNED ALIVE?Is that all you can come with is a SICK AND TWISTED RESPONSE?????I cant say anything further than WHATS WRONG WITH YOU DUDE?Your lucky the US is a GOOD country or we would TURN IRAQ,IRAN,AFGHANISTAN INTO GLASS.


Fourth...........(Back to "neformore") Um..WHY DONT YOU DO SOME RESEARCH?????????????????????????

Yes the British did bombings.............NOT TO THE EXTENT OF THE US...........AND WHEN THEY DID HIT R AND D FACILITIES IT WAS DUE TO U.S. INTELLIGENCE.

Correct,Germany did INITALLY not want to invade Britain,they thought they would join them.........After it was apparent they would not Hitler ordered Britain to be invaded.How much longer do you think Britain would have lasted w/o U.S. interfearence?It wouldnt mater about Britains "Great" Navy,v-1's and v-2's were destroying Britain,let alone the fact that a couple months more of bombings Britain would have to have surrendered.Lets also keep in mind that the US also was doing a "lend-lease" with Britain,thus enabling them to fight on against the NAZI's.

reply to post by Sheeper


Hello Sheeper, I wasn't trying to defend the Iranians I was attempting to point out that the Iranian people shouldn't be considered primitive. Regarding my statement that the long term battle would require the winning of hearts and minds I concede that their hearts and minds can be won but it is a lot harder to win them without an understanding of what those hearts and minds are and even harder when the captor is not Iranian (or for that matter, Persian). I didn't (and haven't) contradict(ed) myself.

I couldn't say whether they are fascists without seeing Iran firsthand. I knew many Iranian people a few years ago and will observe that some had a supremacist ideology but mostly that related to their beliefs not their personalities (probably the case with Jkrog08). An ex girlfriend (Iranian) explained to me (this is not my personal opinion or attitude) that the Koran (or interpretation of it) dictated that Muslims must not do business with Jews; and that Jews were equated with a particular animal. She herself was a fantastic woman but some of her beliefs were "unusual." BTW I'm neither Muslim nor Cristian. And hold no hostility to any particular group of any particular belief system (maybe sometimes to individuals within them...). At the time I knew Iranian people and learned about their culture and ideology they were mostly moderate albeit p***ed that their attempt to build n.power-plants (with Russian help) were being sabotaged (I could tell you an interesting story about this).

We could easily just bomb them back to the stone age with out ever setting foot on their turf. They ain't all that, I say it's just posturing.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by Yosimitie Sam]

reply to post by Rapacity


Do you know me.......what gives you the right to say "as probably the case with JKrog"?

Talk to me directly....like a man.............dont make a passing statement,you really dont know me...because of ONE stance I take you assume to know me?WOW

reply to post by jkrog08


Jkrog08, nope, I'm not a sociopath. As for "...your lucky the US is a GOOD country or we would TURN IRAQ,IRAN,AFGHANISTAN INTO GLASS" I don't think the occupants and soldiers (their families) stationed in those countries consider the US to be a GOOD country. Did you know that the US threatened to invade Holland (within the last 10 years) because Holland detained US war criminals? Not such a gracious nation really, is it?

All nations have their problems. All nations do as many foolish deeds as they do gracious deeds. All nations have citizens that do them injustice and citizens who bring them favour from the rest of the world. In reality, what a nation does most often has bearing on its leaders not its people. Jkrog08, you shouldn't confuse yourself with the actions and the might of your nation, I'm sure neither would like to be confused with you. And, I am sure glad you are not the president of the USA (or any other nation for that matter).

Also, Jkrog08, try not to change the base in your arguments: "The American military is the strongest the world has known, both in absolute terms and relative to other nations; stronger than the Wehrmacht in 1940, stronger than the legions at the height of Roman power. The extent of American military superiority has become almost impossible to overstate" Rome didn't have an air force (because it didn't have modern mechanics), 1940 was 68 years ago, and it is always possible to overstate a country's capabilities (take Iran for instance). The text you "quoted" contains a lot of rhetoric designed to drive you toward a particular action. It would seem to be the text of an American White Supremacist group or cult. I'd be wary and start looking for alternative sources of "facts." Try the CIA World Facts website (but don't take it as gospel corroborate information with multiple, non-mutual and independent sources).

[edit on 18/4/08 by Rapacity]

[edit on 18/4/08 by Rapacity]

Is Iran the strongest nation in the world? I think people are taking Mr "There are no gays in Iran" too seriously. He is bluffing and for many different reasons. Domestically, Ahmadinejad is probably telling his people, and most importantly his opponents, that his government is strong and any foreign or domestic threats will be defeated. Internationally, he is just adding another "we shall destroy you if you attack" line for Israel. He might be also trying to sway any Shia in Iraq but I think the Iraqis are starting to get a good hold of their country now. Honestly, who knows, but I and probably most of the planet know that Iran is not the most powerful nation.

But the Iran vs US debate is so fun on this thread so I want to be in on it too.

The US has obvious advantages. Comparing the Iranian forces to the US forces is laughable. US airpower alone is well equipped, well organized, numerically superior, and most importantly experienced in battle. The US forces have already fought against chinese/russian equipped enemies in mountainous terrain and have won easily. The Iranian military has no chance in an overt war.

The objectives of a war with Iran is much more difficult and probably impossible to obtain depending what the objectives are.

A surgical strike, all-out air attack, or whatever it will take to send Iran back to the stone-age is easy.

Taking Iran's oil, regime change, nation building are just about impossible.

Then there is the terrorist factor. Iran has a well financed, well equipped, well-trained, terrorist complex with around 30 years of operational experience. Then again the US has the CIA, a well financed, well equipped, well-trained, terrorist complex with around 60 years of operational experience. Anything can happen.

With all the high tensions, it must be a surprise that a shooting war has not already started. I won't give the code-pink type peace activists credit though.We Americans and the Iranians have many thing in common...

Rulers that say funny things......check
Rulers that like rattling swords.....check
Rulers that scare most of the world......check
Rulers that believe in some sort of imminent messianic apocalypse....check
Rulers that really don't care about individual rights.....check
Governments that fight using uncontrollable militia and merc groups....check
Governments that fund petty dictators....check
A small segment of the economy benefiting from tension increased oil prices....check
A citizenry suffering from high fuel prices and inflation....check
Allies that benefit from high oil prices caused by tensions (Russia and Saudi Arabia)......check

You know I can go on with this. I guess the reason why a war hasn't been fought yet is because the great leaders of both the US and Iran are willing to discuss their common ground, working through diplomatic channels towards the ultimate goal of a peaceful existence that will ensure the prosperity of both sides.

reply to post by neformore


I don't know if I can take the word of a Liverpool fan.....

But at least rest assured you will never walk alone.

Too bad Fulham will be regulated.

Anyway good post and Russia did benefit greatly from the lend lease act. While it wasn't the primary means for them to win the war, it did give them enough breathing room to hold them until their own industry recovered from the Nazi attacks.