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Torturers In The Whitehouse: Why Is This Story Being Ignored?

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posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 04:17 PM
I had hoped what I went through in the new proof war on terror would vindicate president bush. Theres alot of proof .... but Im so slandered by the very people I turned in to do with 911 and the people here that obviously theyre on the same team??????

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 04:43 PM

Originally posted by jerico65
Waterboarding is torture. That's a laugh. If all I had to worry about when captured is waterboarding, I'd sleep well at night.

It's not a laugh, it's the law. And guess what?

All nations that are signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture have agreed they are subject to the explicit prohibition on torture under any condition. This was affirmed by Saadi v. Italy in which the European Court of Human Rights, on February 28, 2008, upheld the absolute nature of the torture ban by ruling that international law permits no exceptions to it. The treaty states "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture." (source)

For you consideration:

In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese military officer, Yukio Asano, for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II. Yukio Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor. The charges of Violation of the Laws and Customs of War against Asano also included "beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward." (source)

In its 2005 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, the U.S. Department of State formally recognized "submersion of the head in water" as torture in its examination of Tunisia's poor human rights record (source)

As it can be read on the State Department's own website and document:

c. Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

The law prohibits such practices; however, according to human rights organizations, security forces tortured detainees to elicit confessions and discourage resistance. Reported abuses included sexual abuse; sleep deprivation; electric shock; submersion of the head in water; beatings with hands, sticks, and police batons; suspension, sometimes manacled, from cell doors and rods resulting in loss of consciousness; and cigarette burns. According to Amnesty International (AI) and Human Rights Watch (HRW), police and prison officials on occasion used sexual assault and threats of sexual assault against prisoners' wives and daughters to extract information, intimidate, and punish.

Also for your consideration:

On September 6, 2006, the U.S. Department of Defense released a revised Army Field Manual entitled Human Intelligence Collector Operations that prohibits the use of waterboarding by U.S. military personnel.[...]
The revised manual applies only to U.S. military personnel, and as such does not apply to the practices of the CIA. Nevertheless Steven G. Bradbury, acting head of the US Department of Justice (DOJ) Office of Legal Counsel, on February 14, 2008 testified:

There has been no determination by the Justice Department that the use of waterboarding, under any circumstances, would be lawful under current law. (source)

In addition, both under the War Crimes Act and international law, violators of the laws of war are criminally liable under the command responsibility, and they could still be prosecuted for war crimes.

Not only it is prohibited by international, but as by domestic law as well.

War Crimes Act of 1996

The War Crimes Act of 1996 was passed with overwhelming majorities by the United States Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

The law defines a war crime to include a "grave breach of the Geneva Conventions", specifically noting that "grave breach" should have the meaning defined in any convention (related to the laws of war) to which the U.S. is a party. The definition of "grave breach" in some of the Geneva Conventions have text that extend additional protections, but all the Conventions share the following text in common: "... committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health."

The law applies if either the victim or the perpetrator is a national of the United States or a member of the U.S. armed forces. The penalty may be life imprisonment or death. The death penalty is only invoked if the conduct resulted in the death of one or more victims.

Now, please jerico65, would you care to enlighten us why waterboarding is not torture? And take into consideration that you would be contradicting US and International law, so please, take your time.

By the way, and to be fair: the Nazis agreed with you

During World War II, Japanese troops, especially the Kempeitai, as well as the Gestapo, the German secret police, used waterboarding as a method of torture. (source, source)

edit: links, etc

[edit on 17-4-2008 by danx]

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 04:56 PM

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Well, we drown our SEALS and bring them back to life.

This has been proven to be a lie.

We also have a history of using many tactics against our own Marines, including waterboarding, as a training exercise in case they are ever held captive.

And I've never met any who went through it who didn't think it to be a reprehensible torture.

What I said about waterboarding being nothing more than a glorified swirlie stands.

As a testament to your own ignorance, perhaps.

Nighthawk: Keep telling yourself the media is right wing.

It is. It's wholly owned by mega-corporations and right-wing military contractors. Look it up. Deny ignorance.

It's especially quaint when you consider every poll conducted of MSM figureheads shows that the vast majority of the people that "make" the news we watch support traditional liberal buzz topics such as abortion, gun control, and maintaining political correctness.

But their bosses, the people who sign their paychecks, are right-wing and can and do influence stories as they see fit.

Explain to me how, if you will, the media can be a right wing stronghold when every media outlet outside of FOX News started very shortly after 9/11 began using non inflamitory terms when discussing the terrorists and stopped showing the images of things like Muslims celebrating in the streets and Americans leaping to their deaths from the towers because they wanted to ensure they weren't offending the Muslim world?

Hmmmm, let's see... Because every news outlet besides Fox, despite being far-right, figured out that not all Muslims are "terrorists", many of the videos of them "dancing in the streets" were staged or edited from stock footage, and that AMericans didn't want their kids watching people commit suicide on national TV during prime-time, and that it might hurt their bottom line?

That sure as hell doesn't fit into your conspiracy theory about the media being in bed with the right wing corporate machine. Obviously someone in the White House or at GE forgot to send out the "We want Americans as angry as can be so they'll toe the line and believe we should be fighting a war in the Middle East" memo to the networks, because FOX seemed to be the only one that even came close to actively proclaiming an "America First" stance in their reporting.

It's called "Good Cop, Bad Cop". Fox plays to the anger, the others tone it down, the average American (apparently, such as yourself) gets confused and gives up trying to find the truth out for themselves. Desensitization to mass-media input leads to unquestioning loyalty from the tired, confused masses. Eventually all the average person cares about anymore is being distracted from how bad things really are.

Just seems like CNN would have reinstated the word "foreign" and CBS would have instructed their reporters to put those little USA flag pins back on if your ideas had any merit.

Most reporters are liberal. That comes with the territory of being trained to seek the truth, because reality has a liberal bias. It's on the money side of the media where the right takes hold.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:02 PM

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by The Nighthawk

Oh, really? Then why isn't every story that comes out of Iraq positive?

Because... There aren't any positive stories?

Why isn't every story about rainbows and sunshine and smiling kids going to school?

Because in Iraq that's not happening.

If it was a "right wing media" that's what you'd see.

No, because good news doesn't sell papers or keep TV viewers tuned in.

You wouldn't never had know anything about Abu Ghrabi since it would have been censored at the start.

We still don't know much about Abu GHRAIB. Such as, what agency or agencies within the intelligence community (or which private contractors) ordered the torturous acts committed there. Those soldiers didn't do that on their own. Someone, by order or by silent consent, made it happen, and the lowest-ranking soldiers took the blame for it.

Waterboarding is torture. That's a laugh. If all I had to worry about when captured is waterboarding, I'd sleep well at night.

People die during waterboarding. Deny ignorance. Look it up for yourself.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:27 PM
reply to post by danx

If the United Nations really had authority over the U.S. government (the largest criminal-organization in North America) they would rule this country, and we would be imprisoned for keeping & observing the U.S. constitution.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:39 PM

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
We still don't know much about Abu GHRAIB.

Yeah, I didn't spell Abu Ghraib right.

Yep, they only report the bad because it sells. Troop deaths, civilian deaths, etc. are always reported. There are "good" things that go on in Iraq, they just don't want to say anything because it might look like things are going well.

Yeah, ever been waterboarded? I have. It sucks. They whole idea is to get information, not to kill the prisoner.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 06:12 PM
reply to post by The Nighthawk

Are you by any chance a Marxist? If you'd rather not answer that question, then feel free not to.

Allow me to explain a bit about myself for you. I'm a far-right conservative. I don't care for the "neo-con" crap, because I see it as a liberalization of the party I once supported. I managed to pass through the public education system and 6 years of college without allowing myself to become either liberalized, marginalized, or disillusioned. When you keep quoting the "Deny Ignorance" mantra to me, it makes me chuckle. I've "denied ignorance" for 31 years. Through recognizing criticisms against the things I believe in and hold dear as being utter B.S., I have denied ignorance. Through recognizing that there are two "New World Orders" attempting to be built, one in which this nation stands at the forefront and one in which this nation assimilates to the world, loses her identity, and falls under an Orwellian regime where the corporations don't run things, but big brother certainly "knows what's best for you", I have denied ignorance. And, through recognizing that there are those who believe everything in life is one huge secret and they long for the feeling of being "in the know" that they embrace any theory or conspiracy, no matter how far flung or ridiculous it might be, just because it fits into their agenda, I have "denied ignorance."

I'm challenging you to "deny ignorance" now. Stop and ask yourself just how it is that one tiny little percieved hole in the "official" story suddenly makes it a massive conspiracy in which the MSM are just corporate puppets... yet a million gaping holes in your theory are utterly ignored or passed over via the convenient "good cop/bad cop" saga.

ps: I didn't realize the SEALS drowning as training had been proven false. I was of the understanding their special ops had to endure that.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 06:36 PM

Originally posted by deltaboy
Our country is not going to a standstill for a bunch of Arab terrorists who wants to be heard.

This is why crap like this continues.

Citizens like this.

Statements like this.

'Those damn Arabs... torture them all you want! GO AMERICA!'

Seriously, stop making America look bad.

America has already disowned our pro-war, racist and redneck population. Yet they continue to speak for us? Pff.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:04 PM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

look the only reason this issue isnt exploding is because people see that the methods worked. thanks to them attacks were stopped. and its just waterbaording seriously we trained our troops during Vietnam by waterboarding them. so stop defending the enemy and start defending the innocent lives that could have been lost if we had not gotten that info on time!!!!

and by the way clinton got impeached because he lied in court.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:27 PM

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Sadly a number of those "Americans" still insist on believing the right-wing noise machine and cheerleading for the Bush Administration. There are some right here on ATS; check out the apologists on this thread right here.

And honestly, it's not even that they don't understand--it's that they don't care. They're so wrapped up in their internal conflict between their fear of brown people, "alien" religions, and "godless Liberal weenies" and their fervent desire to see hind ends kicked and revenge taken (even if they're too chicken to go to war and do it themselves) they'll eat any horse manure this "Administration" feeds them. Deny ignorance? They're ignorant by choice.

hey there again for starters im atheist. so cant really say im religious.
and your wrong its not that we dont care its that we actually care enough to believe the truth not some conspiracy theory with a million errors in it. fear of brown people??? seriously you sank that low??
im hispanic!!
let me tell you what i think. i think the majority of you here are anti-war anti-bush anti everything. you guys blame all the problems on the govt because you dont know who else to blame. you cling to your false conspiracy theories and declare them true. you are the ones not denying ignorance you are the ones accepting it.

right wing media?? do you even watch fox or listen to talk radio?? theyre critical on some of the things bush has done but they acknowledge that he has done more good then anything else.
you guys fail to see the good he has done simply because u choose not too. dont be ignorant do some research and when i say do some research do some unbiased research.!!!

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:41 PM
here are just some the good he has done.

Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.

Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.

Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.

Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.

Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.

Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.

Signed trade promotion authority.

Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.

Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.

Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.

Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.

Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.

Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.

Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.

Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.

Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:51 PM

Originally posted by logictruth14
you cling to your false conspiracy theories and declare them true. you are the ones not denying ignorance you are the ones accepting it.

ATS and it's users don't embrace any theory or story just because it's a 'conspiracy theory'. Sure there's plenty of things that are posted here that don't deserve any of attention or credit, but the ATS users usually do a pretty good and fast job debunking and pointing out the flaws.

With that being sad, there are a lot of good solid research being done and being posted and shared here. But I guess they are all 'conspiracy theories' to you.

But I got some news for you, and this is just one example: the so called Official 9/11 story - which you probably accept unquestionably - is also a conspiracy theory, and one widely contested and unaccepted.

The Official 9/11 Story aka the Bush Administration 9/11 Conspiracy Theory has not been proven. In fact, there's plenty of evidence to contradict it, but apparently for you, since it came out of President Bush's mouth and has been repeated over and over on TV, it must be true and not a 'conspiracy theory'.

right wing media?? do you even watch fox or listen to talk radio?? theyre critical on some of the things bush has done but they acknowledge that he has done more good then anything else.

Seriously? You're trying to prove a point that the right wing media is as critical of Bush as other media, and you pick Fox News?

Wow that really surprised me because I didn't think anyone had the balls to claim that Fox News is unbiased and has been critical of the Bush Administration at this day and age.

The Daily Show did a great piece on Fox News and it's history. Everyone should check it out and see how fair and balanced they are. And by fair and balanced I mean hypocritical and biased.

The Meter is Running (Part 1)
The Meter is Running (Part 2)

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:58 PM

Originally posted by logictruth14
here are just some the good he has done.

Who the hell cares? This thread isn't about Bush and his fake accomplishments... it's about torture and our government condoning it.

You would rather overlook the issue of government sponsored torture and kiss the feet of a satanist who has run this country into the ground? Pfff. Again.

By the way, G.W. hasn't 'done' any of those things. G.W. does what he is told to do to look good. And it really seems to fool people.... some people... ahem.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 08:03 PM

Originally posted by NewWorldOver

Originally posted by deltaboy
Our country is not going to a standstill for a bunch of Arab terrorists who wants to be heard.

This is why crap like this continues.

Seriously, stop making America look bad.

They have to- they have no choice- they are such easy targets for us....

Case in point:

They cannot make movies- they(Arab Leaders) cannot really do much but pump oil and grow heroin. Hell, they can't even make up a decent religion and get anyone to follow it unless they promise lots of pxxxy in the afterlife.

And it must be said that we do not need them to make America look bad... we have this guy:

Personally- I am much happier to be over here than over there! They still use mules in the city center streets!!

At least we get some trickle down luxuries!

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 10:34 PM
reply to post by dk3000

LMAO!!! Dude, you're KILLIN me over here...haha.

To the folks STILL clinging on to how harmless torture is and how awesome it is to gather info...Even humoring you on the ridiculousness of that, IT IS ILLEGAL---Even the head of the CIA admitted that in the senate hearings! Stop trying to excuse these war criminals for violating international law and human rights! They BROKE THE LAW---PERIOD.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 11:17 PM
reply to post by danx

ok you say the official story isnt true. yet you dont offer any evidence that is true. everything you guys try to prove can be disproven it can be explained it just doesnt hold up simply because its false. your chasing a ghost.

and for the right wing media issue. yeah they are critical on some issues but the truth is theyre not hateful. you guys want the media to label him a liar, a criminal, the worst president ever, and if they dont then to you theyre not critical.
the fact is hes a good president better then clinton, certainly hes better then anyone running on the democratic side. thats why republicans will hold office again, because you guys have ruined your image already.

but this is about torture and the fact that waterbaording isnt torture its just a harsh way to get sumone to talk. im glad they waterboarded those criminals and got info that saved the lives of innocent people.

i watch the daily show.sadly its gotten way too political and hateful. theyre not a credible news source so dont try to prove a point by sighting them. its just idiotic.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 11:33 PM

Originally posted by logictruth14
reply to post by danx

but this is about torture and the fact that waterbaording isnt torture its just a harsh way to get sumone to talk. im glad they waterboarded those criminals and got info that saved the lives of innocent people.

Please, before you make any further posts on this subject---Run a search on The Senate hearings over waterboarding and read what THE CIA DIRECTOR HIMSELF says---Waterboarding IS TORTURE, and it is ILLEGAL.

It is a VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW...The head of the CIA himself even acknowledges that.

The only criminals here are the ones who advocated these sickening acts against humanity. They should all be hauled into court and incarcerated for the rest of their slimey existences.

posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 12:45 AM
Just a word , Since when does Al-Qaeda abide by international law. Al-Qaeda is not a nation Al-Qaeda is a movement. Let’s not forget this is a real war, a very different war. We may not like it , but were in it. We need to protect the troops and U.S. citizens. Water boarding is a walk in the park compared to what Al-Qaeda does. They just whip out a sward and a video camera, and that’s for starters. We need whatever information we can get to prevent any attack. If Waterboarding and the other techniques used work ,then use it. Time is of the essence for information , someone’s life depends on it. Could be yours. The CIA directors is most likely telling the media and America what they want to hear. Do think he became director of the CIA by making statements like that though his career. We all stand up and cheer when they find a captured reporter or captured U.S. Solders. How do think they got that information to go in and get them. You can quote all the laws you want , but I know for a fact it has saved lives.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by SJE98]

[edit on 18-4-2008 by SJE98]

posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:20 AM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

it doesnt matter they obviously keep using it because it works theyre the experts not us and if its actually stopped attacks which theyve said it has then they need to keep using the techniques. regardless of what you say your wrong. no matter how many laws are broken theyre morally right to use any technique to get time sensitive info. you cant argue against right and wrong.

posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 05:42 AM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

No wonder they hate us now,all that is doing is getting more to hate us,it's a fact,that when tortured you admit to anything.Besides there torturing
wrong terrorist they should be doing it to themselves.

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