Is the catholic church bankrupt?

i read a post in another forum making that claim.

does anyone have any information that could credit or discredit that claim? i know that they are having a problem with paying the settlements for the abuse cases but i never would have thought that they are close to bankrupt.

Did you not know the world is bankrupt. The capitalism system has failed.

We are all bankrupt.

umm.... sure, but i was asking specifically about the church because someone mentioned that they are going to be minting gold coins? i was just wondering if anyone heard about this

reply to post by miriam0566


I think andy1033 was meaning that more literally than you seem to be taking it. I read it as the money is there, it just doesn't buy as much. So you can have money, but if it doesn't cover your costs of living, then you are bankrupt. Your personal bank has ruptured because you can't provide the cost of living. (Or running a business.)

The CC may be tight on money right now. It's like any other large investor, and in hard times, it too loses money by the bucketful. If it is tied to closely to the American Dollar right now, it may be having sever financial stigmata. Not "life threatening" but a mess to clean up.

I really don't see much of a conspiracy to this, no more than any other big business being secretive about their finances. The part of the CC that handles finances is not anything but a business. Though I suppose keeping secret a fact that could effect many millions of people, provided things got so bad that they couldn't support their ministry, could be seen as almost political in nature.

Anyway, an interesting thread. Good job.

I don't think that the Church as a whole is insolvent, but there may very well be certain dioceses that are in bankruptcy.

Eric

the church? bankrupt? you're kidding, right?

only way the catholic church is bankrupt, is morally.

Originally posted by andy1033
Did you not know the world is bankrupt. The capitalism system has failed.

A large portion of the world is NOT capitalistic.

Your post should have read - The world is bankrupt because capitalism, socialism, communism, and every other -ism has, or will soon, fail economically.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
the church? bankrupt? you're kidding, right?

only way the catholic church is bankrupt, is morally.

I believe the OP was looking for specificity. Do you have anything to back up your claims? Some financial study by an independent body?

Eric

yea actually, thats kind of what im looking for. the guy at the other forum basically said something heresay with no reference about the church being bankrupt, then another replied with heresay that it isnt bankrupt and that they are talking about mint gold coins and putting it into the markets. i googled it and didnt really find anything except a few articles about dioses(sp?) going bankrupt and how the pope has to solve the churches "money issues"

i figured someone here might know something about it

Originally posted by andy1033
Did you not know the world is bankrupt. The capitalism system has failed.

We are all bankrupt.

Somebody get this man a drink, proffering insight like that he deserves it!

reply to post by miriam0566


THey don't need money for abuse cases... The judges will be forced by governments to free them. The Vatican is a vital tool in the world where religion and politics are neccessary counterparts, thus it will never be brought down in anyway.

They have money, almost every Western government and rich individuals donate to the Vatican. It's been happening throughout the most of history; have they ever been bankrupt and destroyed? Never, they just lost a significant amount of importance due to the emergence of realist ideas.


They're so rich they DON"T even accept donations. They refuse to accept donations from all sexual contraption manufacturers or every organization that might endanger their reputation. They're NOT desperate enough.

[edit on 4/17/2008 by die_another_day]

reply to post by die_another_day


thats a good point actually

I would say the Vatican is not bankrupt at all, however dioceses across the country have come on hard times. In Boston, we have had to close 6 dioceses. The Church has paid out about 2 billion dollars for the sex abuse, mostly over the last 6 years.

And to the poster that said the Church is, "morally" bankrupt-also not true. Individual people are morally bankrupt, not the Church. I am getting used to the constant bashing of all faiths and demoninations on this board though. Keep it up, shows your moral health.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by Comsence2075]

I have t start this post with a very large IMO to reduce the amount of flack that will come my way.
The Catholic Church is at least one of not THE riches organizations in the world with cash assets and property.
The only reason they are crying poor for the abuse claims is if they pay up it will bee seen as admitting guilt.
Look at Michael Jackson. If h didn’t pay up and fought his innocence would still be believed but since he paid the whole world has him labeled as guilty whther is is or not.

reply to post by VIKINGANT


And where did this opinion come from? What studies have you read on the RCC's finances?

I keep reading peoples claims or opinions on the incalculable wealth of the Church without ever seeing anything to back that up.

BTW, there have been countless admissions of guilt by the Church. No one is denying this shameful part of the Church's history.

Eric

[edit on 18-4-2008 by EricD]

I don't think the pope cries at night for his assets. He could just sell a couple of the Michelangelos in the Sistene Chapel...

How much is the Vatican and the Pope worth and are they bankrupt?

The Vatican, in a thousand of our lifetimes, will never go bankrupt even if they keep paying out half a billion in child abuse lawsuits every 10 years.

According to TIME magazine:

Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion.

www.time.com...

Vatican Bank Top 10 Money Laundering Destination

According to one global source, the Vatican is the main destination for over $55 billion in illegal Italian money laundering and the number 8 destination worldwide for laundered money, ranked well ahead of such offshore havens as the Bahamas, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein.

www.vaticanbankclaims.com...

This brings us to John Paul's best selling 1994 book, Crossing the Threshold of Hope (Knopf). The aggressively marketed book was released in 21 languages in 35 countries, with first printings of an estimated 20 million copies, and is expected to bring the Vatican profits of between $100 million and $200 million (which will not diminish the Vatican's perpetual craving for public funding from tax sources).

www.encyclopedia.com...

2006 Vatican budget closes with surplus:

The international Council of Cardinals for the Study of the Organizational and Economic Problems of the Holy See met July 2 at the Vatican. A July 3 statement on the cardinals' meeting said the 2006 donations to Peter's Pence totaled almost $102 million, an increase of more than $42.4 million over 2005

Needless to say OP, I don't think the Catholic church will ever go broke, but they are sticking their hand out, as usual, crying poor, as they have done for hundreds of years...as far as going bankrupt? I laugh just thinking that people might actually think that...but thanks for the thread, anyone who googles about 15 combinations of searches like "Vatican riches" "Vatican in bankruptcy" etc...can pull up the facts

reply to post by LateApexer313


I appreciate your attempts at finding actual data as opposed to going on intuition or preconceived notions.

Do you have any information on what the expenses of the Vatican are?

Eric

Just to give you some insight as to how sadist the vatican can be, they signed a Concordat with Germany in 1933 making Roman Catholicism the only recognized religion in that country.




Catholic clergy and Nazi officials, including Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right), give the Nazi salute. Germany, date uncertain.



Adolf Hitler converses with the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, at a New Year's reception in Berlin. (January 1, 1935)



Catholic clergy and Nazi officials, including Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right), give the Nazi salute.

I think you get the point now.

Not only did the vatican know about Hitler and his holocaust, they actually supported him. Total contradiction to what they believe and preach isnt it.

Source

Peace

CR

reply to post by Conspiracy Realist



The enduring canard of the Vatican's complicity in the holocaust is complete BS. There are only two reasons that I can see that someone would promulgate these lies.

1) They are virulently anti-Catholic and don't care to research the claims made.
2) They are happy to lie to advance their cause.

Why not pick up a book by an actual scholar who has no dog in the fight and do some research?

Dr. David Dalin, a Rabbi, is a Professor of history and a respected and lauded author. His book 'The Myth of Hitler's Pope' will put an end to anyone's concerns if they are intellectually honest enough to look into the matter.

There is plenty to criticize the Church over. Supporting the holocaust or not acting on behalf of those that were persecuted isn't one. This is just a scurrilous lie.

Eric