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f-22 raptor vs f-35 lightning 2

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posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:41 AM
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f-22 raptor vs f-35 lightning 2




what if the current buyers of the f-35 went to war with the u.s. which aircraft would have total airial power over the skys,oceans and continents ??
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:41 AM
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leave it up to you guyzz


(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:53 AM
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And this is in breaking news.... why!?

It's called the aircraft forum.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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im think that the overall superiority of the f-35 will over come the f-22 raptor. the two have next to same stealth capabilities (made by same company lockheed martin) the f-35 also has far better striking capability and multi-role preformaces they 2 very good aircraft.

STATS.

f-22 max. speed: mach 2+ (1,325+mph/2,132+kmph)

f-35 max. speed: mach 1.6 (1,200mph/1,931kmph)

compared to a super hornet with a max speed of mach. 1.8 the f-35 isnt to fast but have in mined that this is with afterburner on(afterburner chews up alot of fuel) and with this on you can only keep at these speeds for 10mins or so but with the f-22 you can easily reach mach 1.2 without afterburner on the piolot justs simpily switches it to supercruieser witch is keeps it at high speeds without chewing up fuel like other planes(the only plane is the eurofighter typhoon wich also has supercruise but doesnt have much stealth or manuverable abilities like the f-35 and f-22)

but what the f-22 has in speed it has it in indurance having a flight range (3,219km/1,738nmi) with f-35 having a range of 2,593km/1400nm only on internal fuel but with external more. they both can arm decent missles and bombs and state of the art radar,stealth and weapons.



BUT.........

all this dusnt matter if you dont have the money to purchase these aircraft. the price of a f-22 reaching an exsecive $120,000,000(american dollar) but that dosnt include the high maintanace of the f-22 more $$.

f-35 lightnings coming at a price of jst over 45million but the down side pitching in for paying for the joint strike fighter program $40 billion dollars but compared to the 62 billion dollar f-22 program its nothing.

(f-22)so at a price of over 120 million a piece you could buy nearly 3 f-35 linghtnings???


SO THE QUESTION YOU SHOULD BE ASKING YOUR SELF IS WHO WOULD BE THE VICTOR THREE F-35,S OR A SINGLE F-22 RAPTOR.........

MAKE A CHOICE???????



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:07 AM
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This should be in the aircraft forum, not the breaking news forum.


But anyway. The F-22 and F-35 are designed for diferant roles, you can't exactly compare them. If the F-22 and F-35 HAD to verse each other, then the F-22 would obliterate it..... And the F-22 costs substancially more than 60 millions dollars, as does the F-35 - they both cost MORE than 100 million a pop. I beleive the F-35 is less than 10% cheaper than the F-22.

[edit on 17/4/2008 by C0bzz]



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:14 AM
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The F35 is no air superiority aircraft. Except for its stealth it doesnt really have any real advantages vs say a eurofighter.

The F22 would have a field day vs F35's. Infact i think EF models by the time the F35 is out will be quite capable of handling the F35.

However as a medium strike fighter the F35 is most likely the best of its class.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by tomcat ha
The F35 is no air superiority aircraft.


This is true enough, however that does not exclude it from being used and superbly performing in such a role.


Originally posted by tomcat ha
Except for its stealth it doesnt really have any real advantages vs say a eurofighter.


Please take more time to study the two aircraft, as they stand now, before making such comments. Besides it's highly advantageously LO characteristics (which I find amusing when so easily disregarded) the F-35 has many subsystems which are either not found on the Typhoon or are less capable (currently). The integration of these different subsystems into it's LO airframe are what sets the F-35 apart. In this case the sum it greater then the parts and why 5th Gen fighters outclass anything that precedes them. You also need to look at effectiveness, and not just specifications which are only a slight indication of it. The F-35 is and will be a superb aircraft whether used for ground or air missions, and in my humble opinion superior the Typhoon in both roles.


Originally posted by tomcat ha
The F22 would have a field day vs F35's.


The F-22 is the superior aircraft, just on capabilities alone. Then when you consider that the pilots in the F-22 are optimized for Air Dominance missions while those of the F-35 will spread their training over many roles it become even more clear who will prevail, most of the time. The F-35, when it enters service, will present the greats peer threat to the Raptor. As such, it will be much more capable of defeating the F-22 even thought the latter would win most engagements. For comparisons look at F-16 V. F-15 engagements. The Eagle wins most of the timefrom having an inherent advantage and superior trained pilots for that role


Originally posted by tomcat ha
Infact i think EF models by the time the F35 is out will be quite capable of handling the F35.


That is your prerogative, we know what the initial US F-35 Block will have when reaching IOC in 2011-2012, we do not know what upgrades the Typhoon might receive, if at all, until then. Nor do we know what different Operators of the Typhoon may choose to field etc... Even though there is natural uncertainty and an inherent unknown I still disagree with your view. I personally feel pretty confident that the F-35, as it stands now, along with its weapons packages will still be superior to the Typhoon. Even if the gap may not be as great as it currently is the F-35 by virtue of its inherent advantages should win, again, most engagements.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by WestPoint23]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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By 2012 the Typhoon tranche 3 will have CEASER , at least as a purchase option - meaning full mode AESA , working onto the back end of CAPTOR which depending on who you want to believe can allready track F22 at meaningful ranges.

second , again depending on who you want to believe , the F35 will not be able to shoot anything other than AIM-9 till 2016 at the very earliest and given the slips in the programme highly likely longer.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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Stealth is excellent if you are in a situation where you have awacs and you can the deny the other side from having Awacs. So that you can point your most stealthy part of the airframe directly at the enemy.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:16 AM
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Just to point out that the root reason fro starting this thread isn't allowed in the aviation forums.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sure these types of questions have there place but not framed or asked the way that this OP has done. If you would be willing to have the title of the thread change and the idea of this post then I'm sure that it would be great to continue to discuss.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:28 AM
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I am just trying to work out which potential clients of the F35 are in range of the US!

If it did happen then we could assume the tiff would be against a more "advanced" nation who would be able to use their assets in a more productive way than (say) Iraq!

If push came to shove, I am sure some nations have the technical know-how and capability to develop systems to counter stealth. Whether stealth can be countered is a bit of a mute point, as we have two schools of thought:

Those who say stealth = invisibility
Those who think stealth can be defeated both doctrinally and technically.

The oft quoted example of stealth not working was in GW1 when the Royal Navy ships were merrily tracking “invisible” US stealth fighters. We can only guess at the capabilities of new radar systems appearing, so let’s not get too infatuated invulnerability. Over-confidence can be a terrible mistake.

Regards



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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I have to agree with the statement that the F-22 would take the F-35.

Plain and simple the F-22 was designed to dominate the skies. It's an air superiority fighter with an inherent multi-role capability.

F-35's were designed to be a cheaper alternative. More of an all around kind of jet.

F-22 absolutely no doubt about it.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
By 2012 the Typhoon tranche 3 will have CEASER , at least as a purchase option - meaning full mode AESA , working onto the back end of CAPTOR which depending on who you want to believe can allready track F22 at meaningful ranges.


Unsubstantiated. According to most sources the eurofighter has never come up against the F-22, in any exercise, ever. That added to the fact that the F-15s with AESA can't track the F-22 in a 4 against 1 dogfight makes the claim more dubious.


Originally Posted by Harlequinsecond , again depending on who you want to believe , the F35 will not be able to shoot anything other than AIM-9 till 2016 at the very earliest and given the slips in the programme highly likely longer.


Uhm, AIM-120D? I thought it could carry four of them.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by BlackWidow23

Originally posted by Harlequin
By 2012 the Typhoon tranche 3 will have CEASER , at least as a purchase option - meaning full mode AESA , working onto the back end of CAPTOR which depending on who you want to believe can allready track F22 at meaningful ranges.


Unsubstantiated. According to most sources the eurofighter has never come up against the F-22, in any exercise, ever. That added to the fact that the F-15s with AESA can't track the F-22 in a 4 against 1 dogfight makes the claim more dubious.


The golden eagle has never flown aganst the raptor - computer games not withstanding. there are only 18 of them anyway (as of now)


Originally posted by BlackWidow23

Originally Posted by Harlequinsecond , again depending on who you want to believe , the F35 will not be able to shoot anything other than AIM-9 till 2016 at the very earliest and given the slips in the programme highly likely longer.


Uhm, AIM-120D? I thought it could carry four of them.


it might be able to `carry them` but shooting them is something else - but thats down to wether you want to believe a `source working with the programme` or not; 2016 is the date given as the eariest it can shoot them properly.

[edit on 20/4/08 by Harlequin]



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 05:56 AM
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Weapons integration takes a long time and new aircraft initially enter service with the most basic of capabilities, this was the bugbear in the UK when the Jaguar GR.3 was retired leaving a gap until the Typhoon can assume all its roles (just happening now, nearly 2 years later). The RAF has already said that the F-35 wont be cleared with ALL the weapons they intend it to carry (such as ALARM and Stormshadow amongst others) until 2022, so the AIM 120 being a publicised weapons option for the F-35 doesn't guarantee it will enter service with that ability. Indeed, with the introduction of the F-35A the USAF will, for a time, be in the same boat as the RAF has been with the new type actually being LESS capable overall than the F-16 it replaces. This is unavoidable.

The F-35 will be so new into service in 2012 (if it makes it at all by then) that to put it up against a Typhoon would actually be unfair, let alone an F-22. It would easily lose either contest if the operator of the other plane had anything about them. As it matured it would be a closer fight and the A2A optimised versions of the F-35 (A & C) might well end up superior to the Typhoon at least in some aspects, but it will need to mature first.



posted on Apr, 20 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
By 2012 the Typhoon tranche 3 will have CEASER , at least as a purchase option - meaning full mode AESA...


Yes, if things go according to plan Batch 3 will be offered with an optional AESA included or an option to retrofit existing pervious blocks. How many partner countries decided to order this variant or in how many numbers etc… remains to be seen.


Originally posted by Harlequin
working onto the back end of CAPTOR which depending on who you want to believe can allready track F22 at meaningful ranges.


The F-22 and Typhoon have never flown together, much less done anything of the sort. A few unverified statements from journalists here and there, with vague details and "anonymous" sources are not even worth mentioning. The F-22 has faced, conventional F-15s, F-16s, F/A-18E/Fs (AESA) and AEGIS ships and still it has not been effectively targeted or tracked before it usually eliminated the OPFOR.


Originally posted by Harlequin
second , again depending on who you want to believe , the F35 will not be able to shoot anything other than AIM-9 till 2016 at the very earliest...


This is pointless, it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand or the OPs question neither does the Typhoon bit, so lets end it here.

I will say however, as I have many times, for the US military the IOC Block 0 F-35s will enter with both the AIM-120 and AIM-9 (among other weapons). These weapons will be qualified during SSD and therefore be ready when it enters service. For international partners, I do not know what the case is. If this one anonymous "source" who has not been verified is to be believed then he must be talking about foreign serving F-35s, which the 2016 date makes perfect sense for. It is neither logical nor conceivable that the F-35 would enter US military service and not be able to fire any aerial missiles for five years, that's jut not going to happen. However yes it is true that the early F-35 Blocks will enter with just the basic weapons/system and software package. And like all systems, will be upgraded and enhanced over the years in later Blocks, but it will enter with air-to-air missiles.

All the systems in purple will be integrated and qualified during SSD and be ready for IOC. All the other systems will be added on in later upgrades and Blocks. This is from a 2007 PDF, the latest such update I can find.




Originally posted by Harlequin
and given the slips in the programme highly likely longer.


What are you talking about? The F-35 program is ahead of schedule and on track, a quick read on the latest information regarding the program will confirm such. It's fine to have an opinion on such things but don't try to pass them as fact at the end of a statement like that. Such drivel adds nothing to the discussion.


Originally posted by paraphi
If push came to shove, I am sure some nations have the technical know-how and capability to develop systems to counter stealth.


There are no shortage or reports, theories and speculation on how to develop systems to reduce the effectiveness of being low observable, not "counter", don't confuse the two. In any case, such systems and plans have weaknesses of their own and, as far as I am aware, there is no fully operational and integrated "anti-stealth" (for lack of a better name) system/s in use anywhere in the world. Such systems have not been fully developed and integrated and they surely have not been combat tested or validated via trial fire, LO systems have with decades of successful combat operations.


Originally posted by paraphi
Whether stealth can be countered is a bit of a mute point, as we have two schools of thought:

Those who say stealth = invisibility
Those who think stealth can be defeated both doctrinally and technically.


That is not correct, I guarantee you will not find anyone worth talking to or in the industry that would have such a simplistic and binary view of the topic. As they say the Devil is in the details, such a statement could not be truer in this sense. When talking about such a situation you must fully qualify and put into proper context the claims. If you do not then you can manipulate the statement to get any answer you wish to.

Stealth is not "invisibility", anyone with brains will not admit such, hence the proper term "Low Observability", not invisible or no observability.

Also, yes, low observabilty can be negated technically and doctrinically, and inversely no, but in either cases at very specific situations. It would be much more productive to discus likely tactics and sittuaiton to arrive at the most probable outcome and result which would be forthcoming in a real world event.


Originally posted by paraphi
We can only guess at the capabilities of new radar systems appearing, so let’s not get too infatuated invulnerability.


Guessing it not required nor helpful, indications to date are. Both current and past, both real world and exercise results overall indicate that LO still has a place in the battlefield. Feel free to dispel this "invulnerability" notion, I'll gladly help you with it.


Originally posted by paraphi
The oft quoted example of stealth not working was in GW1 when the Royal Navy ships were merrily tracking “invisible” US stealth fighters.


Neither I nor anyone else have time for unqualified and vague urban legends and tales, perhaps it might put doubt and impression upon some but personally it does not mean much for me.


Originally posted by paraphi
Over-confidence can be a terrible mistake.


And ignorance can be fatal.


Originally posted by Harlequin
The golden eagle has never flown aganst the raptor


During Operation Northern Edge (held in Alaska) F-15Cs with AESA may or may not have played the Aggressor role against the F-22 led Blue Force, in any case they did fly with the Raptor force. But still, AESA equipped F/A-18E/Fs backed by Red E-2, E-3 and AEGIS ships went up against the F-22, I have pointed out in multiple occasion how that turned out.


Originally posted by Harlequin
...computer games not withstanding.


What does that even mean? I suggest you don't make such jokes, or even worse attempt to pass such a statement as a relevant analysis of modern war simulations and exercises. If and when you do you'll end up looking less the impressive to those who know what really goes on in such events.


Originally posted by Harlequin
there are only 18 of them anyway (as of now)


This is true, in terms of operational F-15s. Current plans call for the entire F-15E force and roughly an additional ~178 F-15Cs to be upgraded with versions of the F-15 AESA radar set. Such upgrades are already underway…

Link


Originally posted by Waynos
so the AIM 120 being a publicised weapons option for the F-35 doesn't guarantee it will enter service with that ability.


For the US military yes it does, as I said, currently the above illustrated weapons package will be integrated and qualified during SSD and be ready for IOC in US service.


Originally posted by Waynos
The F-35 will be so new into service in 2012 (if it makes it at all by then) that to put it up against a Typhoon would actually be unfair, let alone an F-22.


Slight correction, the F-35 is schedule to enter IOC in 2011 and no foreign buyers are stated to receive any version until at the very earliest 2014-2015. Just to put the OPs inquiry into persective.


Originally posted by tomcat ha
Stealth is excellent if you are in a situation where you have awacs and you can the deny the other side from having Awacs.


Naturally it helps but it is by no means that significant, as I have mentioned the OPFOR flying against eh F-22 has had everything you can imagine, including AWACS and double digit SAM systems etc… it did not make that much of a difference. AWACS cannot detect and track the F-22 at useful ranges to reduce its situational awareness advantage. The Raptor can detect the AWACS first due to its huge RCS and electronic signature. As such it will always have a lead in situational awareness and position itself and it’s systems to dictate the terms of engagement.


[edit on 20-4-2008 by WestPoint23]



posted on Apr, 21 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Im very doubtfull that the awacs will not be able to dectect a F22 which has not has its front pointed towards the awacs at usefull ranges. The F22 will then notice this ofcourse and take counter measures but once seen you know what to look for.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by many1
 


f-22 raptor of cause 4 raptors can take down 14 mig 29's and about 25 flankers and rafales with a help from somethings else maybe even a dron just something with extra missiles plus how couldyou not forget thrust vectoring allowing raptors to get the first shot but they both have aeser radars so apart from both bein stealth aeser radars could knock out each others radar. but f-22 is faster annd mor mouneverable and because of thrust vectoring cna do special flight moves like the cobra www.youtube.com... heres a link watch this video hen go to the link for part 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 mosly about raptor but gut 3 parts with lightning in. since im anonymous refer to me as anon guy anyone who has a reply



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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We don't do...

"Versus" threads.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thread closed.



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