The Chemtrail Myth

Originally posted by Cyberbian
Ok so why will a plane make checkerboards in the sky all day. Day after Day. Sometimes a single plane, sometimes several planes, back and forth, forth and back. Turning off the contrails at the end of each line, till they get where they start another line? Back and forth, forth and back?

Way up in the sky, where there are no crops at all.

Why?
How come they turn off the contrails?
How can you turn off a contrail?

They dont turn off anything. The simple reason is that the aircraft moves into drier air parcels meaning there is not enough humidity in the area to make a contrail visible. The air isnt exactly the same temperature and humidity all over, it fluctuates and upper winds can move moisture away.

The grid patterns work in the same way except I believe it has been explained before as planes in holding patterns. They leave grid shapes in the moister air. Zaphod is probably the best person to talk to about this because he is an aircraft engineer and works at airports, which means he has closer contact with air traffic controllers

reply to post by OzWeatherman


So you acknowledge the government admited to spraying populations where citizens live then?

And you know how governments spray their people for "experimental" reasons? Do you agree with this kind of spraying (even if the government says it is safe, eg DDT?). In threads like this one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Interested to know if you give a direct answer here btw.

watchZEITGEISTnow

[edit on 13-5-2008 by watchZEITGEISTnow]

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow


Watch it, watch!!

You just made a statement attributed to Oz, that was either intentionally false (because what you imply he said is not what he posted) or your comprehension of what he wrote is 'clouded' by your intense desire to believe in this 'chemtrail' nonsense.

Please re-read the Weatherman's post...then come back and either stand up for your post, or admit it is incredibly deceptive.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
So you acknowledge the government admited to spraying populations where citizens live then?

And you know how governments spray their people for "experimental" reasons? Do you agree with this kind of spraying (even if the government says it is safe, eg DDT?). In threads like this one:

He never said anything of the kind, and anyone who reads his post can clearly see he hasn't.

There has been a good discussion ongoing in this thread so far, lets not spoil it by misquoting or putting words into peoples mouths that they have not said.

reply to post by neformore


thanks, neforemore...

Not sure it was this thread, or one related....you were correct in your assumption that judging the relative heights of the contrails, when produced by the airplanes, is not accurate as viewed from the ground.

You were just a little off as to the actual separation standards of real jets in flight.

In the high-altitude realm (above 23,000/FL230) the standard, when in Radar coverage, is 5 NM horizontal. It is 2000 feet vertical, unless both airplanes are RVSM certified (RVSM = Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum). Then, it's 1000 feet.

The RVSM pertains to the airplane's pitot-static system, and technological improvements that guarantee more precision, at higher altitudes, than in decades past.

If one airplane is 'in trail', along the same route (airway) and same altitude, then the separation is usually 20 NM. Consider, that at cruise speeds, at altitude, a jet is moving at approzimately 7 miles per minute. 20 NM gives about 3 minutes separation.....but, even if the one 'in trail' increases by 30 knots, it will only 'creep' ahead....that's why ATC will impose speed restrictions....they will ask the one in front to increase speed, if possible, or tell the one 'in trail' to decrease....or, if possible, offer an alternative route, if there's no conflicting traffic.....

See....this is part of the 'chemtrail' myth...a lack of aviation knowledge. I think some people think that every airplane must fly a particular Route at all times. Not the case.

There is the 'Flight Planned' Route, filed with ATC prior to departure....but, given the dynamics involved, one can be re-routed after take-off, given a more direct route to a waypoint downline....can change altitudes, any number of things.

Neforemore, I see you'e in the UK, but you may be interested in a website that tracks flights here in North America, including Canada and Mexico....called 'FlightAware'.....lots of good aviation info there, I have referred some 'chemtrail' believers to it, to no avail. They won't pay attention.

Finally, I've noticed some 'chemtrail' advocates mentioning the U-shaped contrails they've seen. Very simple explanation....holding patterns.

I hope to find a link to a graphic, but I will have to describe in the interim.

A standard holding pattern consists of a 'racetrack' pattern, where the 'INBOUND' leg to the holding fix is defined as two minutes. In small airplanes, the turns are assumed to be 'standard rate'....that is, a 'two-minute' turn....two minutes to complete a 180.

[another edit to add....a standard holding pattern is a two-minute inbound leg, but in the interests of passenger comfort we request, say....'20 mile legs', for instance, and if there are no traffic conflicts, at our altitude, it is usually approved)

The radius of an airplane's turn varies by speed, and angle of bank. At a high altitude, in a holding pattern, the maximum speed is 230 Knots (exceptions are made if the airplane's minimum clean config speed is higher than 230K) The standard commercial jet banks at 25 degrees, with occasional over-shoot to 30 degrees.

This results in a very large "U-Turn"....and, if a conditions are right for a contrail to form, then it will show up.....I have personally seen my own contrail, as I come around again, in the holding pattern. It's fascinating.

Finally, sorry for being long-winded....a commercial jet, whether it be passenger or cargo, must accont for all the weight onboard. To imagine that there are thousands of pounds of 'chemicals' being sprayed without anyone's knowledge is simply ludicrous. Because, it would take thousands of points [edit here....meant to write "pounds"] of some substance, in order to satisfy the claims of the 'chemtrail' enthusiasts.

BTW....there is no equipment to delilver these alleged chemicals, anyway!!

Everyone does know that a pilot pre-flights the airplane before EVERY flight.....right????

WW

[needed to edit for spelling and punct)

[edit on 5/13/0808 by weedwhacker]

[edit on 5/13/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Everyone does know that a pilot pre-flights the airplane before EVERY flight.....right????

WW

Well, the good ones do. Z posted some videos of your flying earlier, and frankly, I'm skeptical you did each preflight

reply to post by _Del_


DEL!!!!!

LOL!

You are referring, aren't you, to the post that Zorgon took down immediately after posting, but since I referred to it before he sent it into the ether, it still exists??!!!

Pretty outrageous, huh?

I think I did tell him about the PIO in the one video, the (obviously) non-American airplane, the A-319 crappy landing.....should have hit the G/A button immediatelly....but, they probably dis-connected the auto-flight anyway, from what I saw.

Only Airbus model I ever flew is the A300. Conventional control, no sidestick....more like a DC-10 than an L-1011.....oops, actually, the DC-10 was a rip-off of the L-1011....so, the A300 was a rip-off of both....

JL was the L-1011 check airman....but he can't chime in...

I'll do it for him, based on what he told me. Lockheed was years ahead, in design. Bill Lear worked with Lockheed to innovate the first 'auto-land' technologies. But, that was the era of the transistor, barely out of the vacuum-tube era. Considered to expensive at the time.

Today, as I can personally attest, auto-landing is very viable; we train in it, and use it sometimes, it is complicated, as to the regulations an airplane requirements, but that's why it's practiced, in a Simulator, so much.

I'm talking about CATIII; CATIIIa, CATIIIb and CATIIIc here...

WW

I actually saw the videos when he posted them. I'm not sure how long they were up. I thought it was good natured and funny, but then again I wasn't the butt of the joke. My perspective might have changed if I had been listed as the PIC.
*ahem* back to contrails...

reply to post by _Del_


Del....*cough*....back to the *cough, cough* "chemtrails".....

Yeah, is a good-natured sort of soul, he's always joshing around, like the little brother I never had......

Still waiting for OZweatherman reply, as he made sure the topic was closed in the last thread, thus avoiding to answer the question on that thread.
That would be this one: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Again I ask, OZweatherman, are you aware of the government testing it's own citizens in chemical tests without their knowledge?

watchZEITGEISTnow

People will always find something to argue about. If chemtrails exist, they exist. If chemtrails don't exist, they don't exist. Either way it doesn't matter, because compared to our food and water (like Santa Clause said....by the way when the Hell am I going to get that pony) they are not killing us off fast enough for me to be too worried about them just yet.
Also, as much as meteorologists irritate me, SOME of what Oz said does make sense just as some of what chemtrail supporters say makes sense. So, until they start pouring acid from the sky, go grow a bleeding garden or something.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Still waiting for OZweatherman reply, as he made sure the topic was closed in the last thread, thus avoiding to answer the question on that thread.
That would be this one: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Again I ask, OZweatherman, are you aware of the government testing it's own citizens in chemical tests without their knowledge?

watchZEITGEISTnow

I am not answering your question until you acknowledge that the thread in question was shut down by the mods for being an exact duplicate (except for the title) of a thread that the Op had created a few weeks prior

Stop blaming me please, its becoming really irritating

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Sorry.

So do you now admit the government has sprayed chemicals on its unsuspecting citizens before?

watchZEITGEISTnow

I've probably missed the boat on this one.

But I assumed the chemtr...yawn...ail issue had been sorted a while back.

The Chemtrail Hoax

It was started and finished by off_the_street (see link).

Just a thought.

Brei.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Sorry.

So do you now admit the government has sprayed chemicals on its unsuspecting citizens before?

watchZEITGEISTnow

ZEITGEIST!!!!!!!

You tried this, once before, on the OzWeatherman!! You lied, you twisted words to imply something HE NEVER SAID!!!! You've been called to task on this same tactic twice now.....

I invite all interested parties to scroll up, check the related posts, and you'll see what I mean.

Lies, and the twisting of othr's words ( or downright putting words in ohter's mouths ) should not ever be abided on thee forae.

Once is a mistake(?)....twice is deliberate....third, well.....that's not for me to decide.

reply to post by weedwhacker


You really have your feathers ruffled (again). I explained why I asked Ozweatherman the question, and I really don't see it as your business to answer for him. So again, I ask Ozweatherman to answer the question he has avoiided answering in over 3 days now.

Thanks.

watchZEITGEISTnow

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow


Yeah, I'm the birdman, with feathers to ruffle.

Did it ever occur to you that Oz is busy? He will respond.....

That's why I followed the Yellow Brick Road!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well I might aswell ask you too then while he gets here: Do you agree the US government has sprayed its citizens with chemicals without consent from them?

read here: www.abovetopsecret.com...'

thanking you.

watchZEITGEISTnow

Ahem! May I chime in again, please? Why on earth would anyone (let alone experts in the fields of meteorology, aeronautics, etc.) agree to covert operations done by the US government?

It’s not fair really to start putting those who do not support the chemtrail conspiracy under the hot spotlight just to be ridiculed (again) while the rest of us are trying to make sense on why some people are witnessing more than contrails being formed in the skies during broad daylight and under the cover of nighttime.

For crying out loud, we still can’t prove if aliens or UFOs exist, even with all those alleged blurry photos and fuzzy videos floating around out there in the internet! Can’t we just accept that contrails are normal and put the chemtrail myth behind the backburner once and for all? I guess not, eh.

reply to post by OzWeatherman

More laboratory evidence shows those sticky clouds are toxic.

www.youtube.com...