US Air Force gets first exposure to Sukhoi-30s

My point was that by the time the SU-30 was introduced, the F-15 had already been around for over a decade.

But I am curious too, to see how the JSF and F-22 hold up against other next generation aircraft. And to see if they have the long life and staying power of the F-14 and F-15.

From the info I've read, the SU-30 couldn't hold the jock-strap of the Raptor. The JSF, in it's many variations, will be interesting.

Originally posted by Laxpla
Isnt that the most advanced Russian plane? Or am I wrong?

The Su-30MKI is essentially an Su-37 renamed with better western and indian aveonics systems.It is currently the most advamced plane in service all over the world.It is also the only plane currently in service to have 3D TVC.India currently have around 65 of them.

To know more visit : vayu-sena.tripod.com...

But these were not used in the air exercises.The more low tech Su-30K's were used.They got no TVC or canard foreplanes.

Interesting Stuff:

Su-30MK Beats F-15C 'Every Time'
vayu-sena.tripod.com...

Thank you for reposting that link Stealth Spy.....news articles such as you have linked and presented help to keep those F-22's pumping out and far from being canceled.



seekerof

the F-22 is the most advanced fighter in the world.

I next generation MIG fighter looks to be at least on par with the F22, both are currently not seeing production numbers..... so the claim is purely hypothetical and bravado. Until both see combat and major production....

If America has the best research and technical developments of any country... why does it depend so much on using ADVANCED facilities and research areas not available in America? Automotive engineering and Aerospace are both branches of mechanical and industrial engineering / manufacturing, yet why do American automotive companies who regularly produce military weapons (GM) lag so far behind their European / Japanese counterparts in technology, quality, and design....... The same firms that research aerodynamics for jets also work on research for cars. Finally if Americans are the best at aerodynamics and manufacturing, why doesn't these firms put their money and compete directly against the firms in Formula 1 racing? Much of the same that applies in Formula1 applies to War machines.... the competition, strategy, mental games...... It is quite easy to throw out numbers and specs and ratings, to make a claim that you are the best. Now how about proving it. Let me make a clear example, The Ford F150, who changed their tow rating numbers a few times to match that of Nissan's Titan.... Yet in all real world acceleration, towing, and worse yet dyno/hp measurement the Ford failed to match the Nissan. It is easy to make claims, now prove it with scientific results or real world performance results.

What I know does not concern me (in case of the F22). What I don't know about the next generation MIG is what will kill me. Russains aren't known for their bravado or bragging rights. Look who took the assault of the Germans in WWII and look who came out victorious. Other battles were merely scirmishes compared to the Russain and German battles.

[edit on 20-6-2004 by dacman]

Does somebody have a bad case of "haterism" *cough*dacman*cough*
I will recommend that you take 2 doses of -reality check- twice a day.


[edit on 22-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

I'm not hating. I'm asking for proof and testing evidence before proclaiming that the F22 is the be all end all of all fighters. That buddy is what you call reality and how real decisions are made in this world, whether you like it or not..... But as you aren't going to work in the real world, a lifetime of military service will do you well, best of luck..... Be sure to get yourself is great shape, boot camp is actually the easiest part of military service.

Don't wry im prepared and we don't know all of the F-22's weapons just about half but not all so thats what you should fear.

Thanks for new info on su-30. If all Su-30 are going to get improvents like SU-37 then I guess IAF will be one of the best Air force in world. I know lot (most ) depends on pilot skills. IAF pilots can not outperform USAFpilots , but atleast they can be next to them.

It will be good if Su-30 can get stealth like F-22

I'm sure this has been discussed before and should be in another thread.... But how much training and skills as a pilot do you have to have up to a point to becoming equally effective in war situations.

Granted Ace pilots can pull off dog fight maneuvers that most other pilots can't, but that isn't needed to be effective..... Your firing missles.... On top of that pilots have engineers working with them to plot out flight plans to keep low key on radar. Its not all in the pilot.

Let me make an example, at the beginning of the Vietnam war, the VC's with inferior equipment and training were still effective at a 1:1 kill/loss ratio which is disasterous for the US Airforce. Of course the Airforce saw and corrected this, but its not like the VCs had money and technology to have great jets.

I simply would like to get an idea of how much skills do you need to have to be equally effective in battle before missles run empty.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by dacman]

More news articles :

IAF flies high on Uncle Sam's accolades
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
...USAF was rudely jolted out of its complacency during the first-ever joint air combat exercise with India, "Cope India-04", held in Gwalior in February.The Indian pilots, flying Sukhoi-30s and other jets, simply outgunned the top-gun American pilots on their F-15Cs during the exercise, recording most of the "kills" in direct air combat. The exercise broke new ground by pitting top-notch Rus...


Days of thunder: IAF topguns fly past
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
USAF officials showered high praise on the Indian service following the Gwalior exercises, crediting it with excellent skills and equipment. "The Gwalior Cope Thunder was an eye-opener for them but we also learnt a lot and hope to see and learn even more at Alaska," the IAF official said. The IAF threw its top-of-the-line fighter planes, including Sukhois and Mirages, at the USAF in Gwalio...


IAF flies from Ambala to Alaska
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
The Indian Air Force, fresh from fraternal praise from the US Air Force after a friendly shooting match in bilateral air exercises in Gwalior in February this year, will cross uncharted waters and new frontiers over the next few days. A large contingent of some 200 Indian pilots, airmen and assorted crew took off from Ambala, Haryana on Tuesday morning on six Jaguar strike aircraft, two IL-76s transport air craft and two IL-78 tankers. .......

In respose to Posters Dacman and Westpoint. I have explained to Westpoint why we seem to lag behind the Soviet Union in aircraft developement. The Soviet Union at a prior point in time lavished billion s of Rubles on its military indiustrial complex. The US at the same time has always been tied up budject constraits. It is very obivious that due to lack of proper funding it could never keep up with the Soviets aviation industry. This is one of the reasons why we continually take an existing airframe and upgrade its operational life expectency. Our defence indusry is only driven when the funding is available.
Upon the collaspe of the former Soviet Union there aircraft industry became stagnant and if it was not the need for foreign currency I believe it would have dwindle to a ghost of its former self. The Russian government realized that export of military hardware was an expident way in obtaining the must needed capital. They allowed the aviation industry to surive and develope aircraft that could outperform the West.
It is a proven fact that the US military industrial complex is governed by politicans. These individuals decide what the military needs and how they will spend the money allocate to them. I doubt the Polit Burea did that.

Do people really think that dog fighting realy matters nowa days?

Its all about situational awareness, missles, laser beams, radar, electronic jamming or stealthing of the enemies radar systems.

Imagine and Aircraf that could sit still in the air spin around and shoot in every direction at once. That would be a heck of a fighter?

Not really if you can shoot it down from 1000 miles away with a laser beam in less than 5 seconds.
Pilot skill and aircraft agility mean nota.

[edit on 28-6-2004 by Xeven]

Well the only real way to test the Raptor and the SU-30 is in combat. While the SU-30 and its pilots might be the best plane on the market with advanced sensors and excellent pilot training, it does not have the edge that the US has in stealth and computers. The Raptor would simply appear out of now where at long range, fire its missile, dissapear, and then the missile would kill the Sukhoi. If the planes try to dump radar emissions everywhere trying to find the Raptor, it would simply identify the source from its passive radar linked to the radars of other raptors and dump all the info into an AMRAAM. It could also hack into the enemy plane and mess with it just long enough to give the raptor a decisive advantage.

Can you please return to the topic

Anyone noticed my new avatar

Flycatch what year are you living in cuz unless your blind the soviet union isn't there anymore and we take existing frames and upgrade them yeah that's what your supposed to do and what about the Raptor And F-35 and F-26 you forget about these and why do you think the USSR fell cuz regan made them broke they could not keep up with our military spending.

Come on man. Thats just makes you look stupid WestPoint. It does hurt me to say this but some Russian aircraft are very good. The Su-30 is a very good aircraft. It has proven itself againts the F-15 and shown that it is a powerful fighter. This does not mean that the F-15 is a bad aircraft. It is just an older design. And you are correct in saying that the F/A-22 and F-35 will be some of the best aircraft in the world but that does not mean other countries can produce good aircraft also.