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# Going Lower than Absolute Zero

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posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 04:42 PM
Alright I have a theory that I have been running in my head for quite some time and I would like some input.

Absolute Zero is the lowest possible temperature that can be obtained according to the science of today. Absolute zero is -459 degrees farenheit. At this temperature all atomic movement stops in all forms of matter.

In space the coldest it ever gets is 3 degrees Kelvin or Three degrees above absolute zero. Here on Earth we have been able to get closer to Absolute Zero and made two new forms of matter by doing so the bose-einstein condensate and the fermatic condensate.

My theory is that if we could cool an item to below absolute zero that we would create anti-matter. You reach the point where all atoms cease to move and go beyond I beleive once you go beyond the atoms start to operate in reverse causing anti-matter.

Just a theory I have been kicking around, any input is greatly appreciated.

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 04:48 PM

My theory is that if we could cool an item to below absolute zero that we would create anti-matter. You reach the point where all atoms cease to move and go beyond I beleive once you go beyond the atoms start to operate in reverse causing anti-matter.

Why would droping below AZ make atoms go in reverse?

I see what you are saying but dont understand why it would happen.

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 04:49 PM
Humm, the amount of energy required to bring something down to absolute zero is huge. I would think that if it would be theoretically possible to take something past absolute it would require enormous amounts of energy. IF your idea of driving matter in "reverse" worked, the anti matter formed should cause a chain reaction with the "containment" media and either

A. Cause a huge, Fusion ? Explosion with untold magnitude.

or

B. cause the "containment" media to loss particles thereby negating the "anti-matter" and returning it to an absolute of above state. Thereby every fraction of a nano second that the "anti-matter" exists it would be brought back to its absolute state by the scrubbing off particles from the surrounding enviroment.

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 04:52 PM
you can't take something below absolute zero, temperature is a measure of the movement of an atom, if an atom stops moving, it's temperature is absolute zero, you can't make something stop moving more then no movement at all lol

actually, absolute zero itself is impossible to get to, because you cant make matter stop moving, if matter stops moving, then it ceases to exist, that's what happens in the singularity of a black hole

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 05:01 PM
Amuk,

Absolute Zero is the point in which all matter stops to move and you are not supposed to be able to go past it. If you did My theory is that the inner workings of an atom would in turn run in reverse.

Robertfenix,

I know there are several question marks on how to do it but I think that one day it will be obtained. I also think that It could be used as a massive bomb of some sort or an untold energy source.

KKing123,

I know the science of today dictates everything that you said to be true but the science of just 50 years ago said there was nothing smaller than the atom.

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 06:01 PM
Sorry, just can't get past the "in reverse" thing ...

reverse entropy? not likely...

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 08:53 PM
they call it ABSOLUTE zero for a reason....
It isn't a boundary like the speed of light or something.

The zero point on the absolute temperature scale; -273.15°C or 0 K; theoretically, the temperature at which molecular motion ceases. As you cool something down, you are taking more and more of its energy away in the form of heat. You can't have a particle with negative energy can you, even though i guess most of the particles energy would be stored in its mass. But I'm definately sure you can't go below absolute zero. They would be able to reach it or go past it if it weren't absolute, but since it is, the closest they've ever come to it is like 1 billionth of a degree away from it.

The temperature limit at which no further cooling of a substance can occur, and at which the motion of the molecules is at a minimum (or, more accurately, at the minimum allowed by Quantum Mechanics). The energy associated with this minimum motion is called "zero point energy" by physicists.

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by quiksilver]

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:09 PM
Perhaps this is a better way to look at the situation:

You have a ball. (atom)
It is rolling. (room temp motion)
It slows down. (freezes and slows down)
It stops. (absolute zero)

Can you stop a ball that has already stopped? No.

Antimatter is actually theorized to be the topological opposite of matter. This means that the structures of matter can un-make the antimatter through a complex mathematical structure (they can combine and unravel).

Why? Photons and Antiphotons are identical, yet still destroy one another. How can 2 things be identical, but destroy each other instead of collide? Think of computer encryption. If you read the encryption you see nothing. If you know the encryption key you can't see anything, unless you apply it to the encryption itself. Thus, once the encryption is matched up with the encryption key, the secret coding is "undone" and only the original message is left.

If matter does come to a halt, it may have a number of effects, but we already know that matter and antimatter will annihilate one another (with only small fragments left behind in most cases).

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:16 PM
Q: (A) I want to ask about this magnetic pole reversal. It's the current theory or understanding of magnetic field of planets in terms of
dynamo mechanism, where there is a liquid metal - iron - which is hot - there are convective currents, and there is self-excitation through
magnetic field. That's the present model. They were able to model this magnetic pole reversal using this kind of magneto-hydro-dynamics. Is
this model essentially correct?
A: Only partly.
Q: (A) What is the main thing that is important, and that is lacking from this model?
A: Crystalline ammonia core.
Q: (A) Everybody thinks that the core is a crystal iron; that's the present thinking. Say it's an ammonia core: is an ammonia core in all
planets with magnetic fields? Is this so?
A: From this perspective, no but from the perspective of organic life, yes.
Q: (A) When we speak about crystalline ammonia, do you mean a new kind of crystalline ammonia that is not yet known on Earth to our
scientists?
A: More or less.
Q: (L) I think we need to find out something about this crystalline ammonia. (A) What would make it go into the very core? (L) I don't
know. We don't know enough about it to even know how to frame a question. I know we thought it was crazy when they were talking about
Jupiter and the ammonia, and then of course all this ammonia shows up on Jupiter. And I remember them saying something about this at the
time, but I don't think we ever followed up on it because I thought it was even to crazy to think about. Maybe we need to find out something
about ammonia, crystalline ammonia. (A) Is there a mini black hole in the center of the Earth?
A: No.
Q: (L) I remember when I was a kid - this is a funny thing - we got this kind of chemistry experiment. You put these chemicals together and
it grew crystals. I think ammonia was part of it. I think you had to use ammonia to grow crystals. (A) Okay, now this crystalline ammonia
core inside the Earth, can we have idea how big it is, what radius?
A: 300 km.
Q: (L) What is surrounding it, what is the next layer? (A) Normally people would say it's an iron crystal. What is the next layer?
A: Correct.
Q: (A) There is this ammonia - crystalline... (L) Surrounded by iron crystal. Is it crystal iron? (A) Probably at this pressure that is here, it
may very well be crystal. (L) Okay, is the iron surrounding the ammonia, is it crystalline?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What's the next layer?
A: Molten iron.
Q: (A) Okay, now we know that some planets have this crystalline ammonia, and some do not. When we consider planets that have this
crystal ammonia inside, how did it get there? Was it a kernel first around which the planet was formed, or first the planet was formed and
then during some processes the ammonia sank and crystallized inside? I would like to know how it got there?
A: It is the natural formation process for ammonia to accrete iron from supernovae.
Q: (L) I read somewhere - about supernovae - that the only reason we have iron is because it's produced in supernovas. That would mean
that our solar system is formed from a supernova, right? In which case what blew up and when? (A) I understand that this crystalline
ammonia core - 300 km radius - must have certain magnetic properties which are important. Because it was mentioned that it was lacking in
dynamo theory or certain very important properties concerning heat convection. So there are these two main things in dynamo theory -
conductivity and electric properties - on the other hand heat convection properties. Why is this ammonia important for the magnetic field
because of what properties?
A: Super conducting.
Q: (A) According to what we know it's very hot inside the earth because of the pressure. Now, is this ammonia also hot, as much as iron?
A: Grows alternately cold and hot.
Q: (A) Is it super conducting even if when it is very hot?
A: No.
Q: (A) When it gets cold, how cold does it get?
A: 55 degrees below absolute zero.
Q: (L) What is absolute zero? (A) That is something you can't get below. That's why it's called absolute zero. It's a new
thermo-dynamics. (L) How often does it alternate?
A: Close to hour long periods.
Q: (L) So when it gets so cold and becomes super conducting, the act of super-conducting is what heats it up? Is that it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well once it heats up, how does it then get cold again?
A: It stops conducting.
Q: (L) What is it conducting? When something is super conducting what does it conduct?
A: Electrons.
Q: (A) The point is, you see, that when something is super conducting it offers no resistance. Which means that the current it flows through
it, is not heating it. Well we learned that it gets hot because it's super conductive, right? Which is somewhat contradictory because when it
is super-conducting there's no reason for it to be hot except it can become hot because there is the hot external shell of iron. So that is very
likely why it would become hot. Because by the very definition of super conductivity you don't become hot when you conduct, see? Well, if
there are big, very big currents, then okay, they can stop super conductivity, then it gets warm.
A: Currents of this nature set the surrounding iron to vibrating which produces heat, not heat produced by the current.
Q: (A) Now, I want to go back to this 55 degree below absolute zero. And here I would like to have a confirmation of this 55 degree below
zero. Because. according to the current knowledge of physics, the absolute zero was set by definition, as the temperature on the scale,
according to the science of thermo-dynamics, which is - so to say - nothing moves so you cannot go below this temperature. If you say 55
degrees below zero it means we have to redo physics and redo thermo-dynamics.

A: You have entered a different realm.
Q: (A) What?
A: Lack of movement as measured by physics is based upon 3rd density conventions.
Q: (A) What causes this appearance of new physics in the center of the planet? We do not see this need for new physics around us. But
somehow there are specific conditions, apparently, in the center of the planet that cause necessity of entering this new physics.
A: Windows.
Q: (L) Let me ask this, if it was possible to measure a temperature of something that was being subjected to a very intense electro-magnetic
field what would it show? (A) Well the question is different, you see, because we asked first about why there is this ammonia crystal inside,
okay? The answer was it was a natural process. But now we see there is this window inside. What is the reason that there is this window
inside? Now you suggest, honey, that the widow inside is because there are - or because who knows what causes what - but there are very
strong electro-magnetic fields. Is the window inside related to the fact that we have to go beyond standard physics? Is it related to the fact
that there are very strong electro-magnetic field inside?
A: Reciprocal function.
Q: (L) What is ammonia composed of? (A) Ammonia? NH3, one nitrogen and three hydrogen atoms, and it kind of rotates, and that's
ammonia. (A) What is nitrogen number? Six? Or seven? Seven is phosphorus, yeah? (L) I don't know, I don't remember, I'm too tired to
remember. (A) You're too tired.
Q: (L) Okay, anything else we can think of we ought to ask before we...is there going to be any kind of terrorist attacks tonight or tomorrow?
A: Not likely.
Q: Are there going to be any further terrorist attacks in the United States?
A: Possible but not probable.

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:21 PM
so your saying you can turn something that is opposite of diamond (im sure its something cheap) and make it below zero and it becomes diamonds????

posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 09:50 PM
I'm just curious. Someone said that "Space" is not at Absolute Zero, but a few degrees warmer. how is it that Space is not at absolute zero? There is nothing to hold the heat so nothing to warm the space. Shouldn't space be at Absolute Zero? Or is there really a little matter in-between everything, like dark matter or something?

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:13 AM

Originally posted by DarkHelmet
I'm just curious. Someone said that "Space" is not at Absolute Zero, but a few degrees warmer. how is it that Space is not at absolute zero? There is nothing to hold the heat so nothing to warm the space. Shouldn't space be at Absolute Zero? Or is there really a little matter in-between everything, like dark matter or something?

Space has an energy state....vacuum energy. And even "Empty" space isn't really empty. Particals routinly pop in and out of existance holding a small bit of energy.

Keep in mind space is a substance, not a void. Think of it as the deep sea and water, cold and empty but still actualy being 'something' and having a temperature.

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:33 AM
Q: (L) What is ammonia composed of? (A) Ammonia? NH3, one nitrogen and three hydrogen atoms, and it kind of rotates, and that's
ammonia. (A) What is nitrogen number? Six? Or seven? Seven is phosphorus, yeah? (L) I don't know, I don't remember, I'm too tired to
remember. (A) You're too tired.

So these Cassiopaeans dont know the nitrogen number? or phosphorus, and were asking the questioner?

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:38 AM
We can make antimatter now.

As for going below absolute zero, well, it's when the material isn't moving at all. You can't be moving slower than 0.

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:42 AM

Originally posted by DarkHelmet
I'm just curious. Someone said that "Space" is not at Absolute Zero, but a few degrees warmer. how is it that Space is not at absolute zero? There is nothing to hold the heat so nothing to warm the space. Shouldn't space be at Absolute Zero? Or is there really a little matter in-between everything, like dark matter or something?

Temprature is a measure of molecular movement. A vacuum has no temperature itself. The reason its 'cold' is because the molecules in your body that are moving radiate that energy out into space, thus lowering your temperature.

Space, however, is not empty. There are particles flying around in it, just very few of them (hydrogen atoms, for example). These molecules do heat a little bit, due to things like satrlight hitting them.

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:50 AM

Originally posted by DarkHelmet
I'm just curious. Someone said that "Space" is not at Absolute Zero, but a few degrees warmer. how is it that Space is not at absolute zero? There is nothing to hold the heat so nothing to warm the space. Shouldn't space be at Absolute Zero? Or is there really a little matter in-between everything, like dark matter or something?

Im pretty sure empty space just doesn't have a temperture. Temperture is a property of matter, and empty space does not fit into the category of matter, therefore it cannot have temperature.

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:50 AM
and different wavelengths of light like radiation have heat, im sure that 3Kelvin was the lowest temperature a certain form of radiation was??

ahh yes...

The strongest radiation of 1-millimeter waves corresponds to the black-body radiation of an absolute temperature of 3 degrees Kelvin. After that, it was learned that this radiation contained enormous amounts of energy and was spreading in all directions in precise uniformity. The finding showed that the Universe in its early days was extremely dense and hot and had cooled down to 3 kelvins as it expanded.

Its that cosmic background radiation.. yea.

[Edited on 26-2-2004 by quiksilver]

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 12:54 AM
so if they've come to within 1 billionth of AZ, how did they do that. That would mean that it's colder than space right? This is a pretty interesting thread.

Muzz

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 01:09 AM
I always thought that beyond Absolute Zero matter would annihilate, cease to exist.

posted on Feb, 26 2004 @ 04:10 AM
First of all, modern quantum statistical mechanics (the theory needed to examine what happens to molecules at low temperature) does NOT predict that molecules will collapse at 0 K.

A molecule at 0K will simply be in its lowest-energy quantum state. In accordance
with the Heisenberg uncertainty priciple, this state will correspond to a distribution
of position and momentum values in general...and will not be perfectly still.

Classicaly speaking ALL MOTION CEASES AT ABSOLUTE ZERO.
Zero point Quantum motion is always there.
and that is what prevents collapse in the hypothetical scenario at absolute zero. For very massive objects, this has to be supplemented with Pauli repulsion.

the third law of thermodynamics prevents us from reaching absolute zero.

The third law of thermodynamics, also known as the Nernst theorem, can be written as BY NO FINITE SERIES OF PROCESSES IS THE ABSOLUTE ZERO ATTAINABLE. No matter how much patience and money you have, you can not execute an infinite series of steps.

How?

Liquid helium has a temperature of around 1.3K or -271.85°C. An apparatus called a "dilution refrigerator" manages to use a rare helium isotope (3He) to reach 0.002 K or -273.148°. Still not cold enough, but getting very close.

It turns out that the heat left over from the Big Bang that created the universe is everywhere, and it keeps the temperature in space from going any lower than 3 degrees Kelvin.

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