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Undercover in Tibet

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posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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do american border contral police also sometimes shoot border tresspassers too?i really dont know,i hope not.i admit that is wrong,that s a shame,those perpetrator should be punished.




posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by beijinghaidian
 


These people were FLEEING the country, not invading. There is a refugee camp just on the other side of the border, Tash Despa tells about SEVERAL dead bodies lieing around.

And, since you don't seem to understand it - this thread is not about the US, it is about the chinese crimes against Tibetans. Got that now ?
'



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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reading your posts is like watch a fantacy show,just one word,you dont know china,you dont know the people living on this land and you dont know chinese thousands of years peace loving culture and philosophy.come to china,experiene the country,communicate with the people,or do you have any friends or family members ever been china recently,ask them how china is.i gauranttee they will tell you a different story.china actually is a much safer country than america,chinese police seldom mess with people .but i know you would never listen,you would never believe.if you like to comment,experience two cultures ,just like what i did ,spent years in the states .seeing is believing.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by beijinghaidian
 


You keep talking about going to China. What about going to Tibet?

Why are they doing that to them? To take them over for profit?



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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it is about the chinese crimes against Tibetans. Got that now ?

do you mean you like to hold the moral high ground here bashing china,and dont like to hear any opposite voice to be raised?how much do you know china?how many do you know this great civilisation and one fifth of the humanity you are insulting now?



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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what did i do to them?you accuseD the wrong person. why did you do those autrocities to native indians,why did you kill them off,why did you steal their land,why did your government invaded other countries just as your will?



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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We in the USA are in a real catch 22 here, America's debt to China is huge and most of China's exports are sold right here.

We are to blame for a modern China, we are responsible, so do you think America will lift one finger to help Tibetans? Do you think America will stop purchasing cheap Chinese goods? Do you think America will boycott the games when America owes China so much debt??



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by beijinghaidian
 


You still don't get it. I don't hold a grudge against the chinese people, i guess most of them are just trying to live their lifes with a minimum amount of trouble, just like anyone else on the planet. The problem is the chinese government and their human right abuses.

And while 1000 years of history is as relevant as my big toe hurting, please take into consideration, that monster mao did a cultural revolution, where the 1000 years of history and everything related to it, have been supressed, forbidden and destroyed, especially in Tibet.




do you mean you like to hold the moral high ground here bashing china,and dont like to hear any opposite voice to be raised?


No, i'm just saying, that if you like to debate the problems you seem to have with other countries, feel free to open a thread and debate them there. There are several ones on ATS just debating the problems of the US, just do a search, post there, give your input, just please, as two moderators already told you, don't try to derail this thread. Thanks.


[edit on 14-4-2008 by Phil J. Fry]

[edit on 14-4-2008 by Phil J. Fry]



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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mao,personally i dont like him either,he died in the year 1976,today's china is not a bit like at thing that time.why couldnt you change your cold war mentality and view china more objectivly.now china is just every other countries,i did a lot of travelling around the world,i do the comparison all the time,i hope you did the same.go with the time dont stay put.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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ok,one more thing i will put and i will go to sleep,i got work to do tomorow,tibet has been part of china centuaries before europeans arrived in americas,the very title of "dalai lama"was given by the then central government,it is not even tibetan language,and the central government for centuaries involved in choosing new dalai lama and panchen lama,in beijing lama temple,there is a gold drawing pot,for several hundred years that item was used by central government and lamas together to choose new dalai lamas.each dalai lama and panchen lama should be approved and blessed by the central government.

tibet in china is not a big minority group,we have eight minority group bigger than tibet in population,china has 1.3billion people ,among them 92% are han chinese.the rest 8% of the country's population is made up by 55 minority groups. tibetan population is the same as the population in haidian district of beijing ,beijing has almost 20 districts.should all the minority people have their independence?

look at the casualties caused by racial wars around the world,how many people are killed because of this kind of conflict every year,still i would say,stirring up racial hatred is to advocate world war,that is the true crime against the whole humanity!!



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by beijinghaidian
 


This is getting a little bit tedious, if you refuse to understand what is being written here *sigh*

You brought up 1000 years of peaceful chinese culture, i told you, that people like mao make your 1000 years of peaceful chinese culture look pretty bad. In no way, i told you, that todays china is still maos china.

And if you would take a look at the video, which this thread is about by the way, you would see, that several Tibetans strongly disagree with your view of chinese politics towards them. They flee the country, because it is a living hell for them and i guess they know what they're talking about, since they actually lived there. The woman with the forced sterilization know what she's talking about, it happened to her. The man with the torture wounds knows what he is talking about, his scars will remind him of it until the end of his life.
And now, please answer directly to these questions - why do you think, the Tibetans risk their life in fleeing towards Nepal, when everything is so great for them in occupied Tibet ? Do you think the personal accounts displayed in the video is western propaganda and media lies ?

And just for the sake of it,in the last 30 years i've been around very much, probably more then most people, i just refuse to travel into police states.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by beijinghaidian
 


The majority of Chinese people's opinions really don't matter when discussing Tibet, any more than they really matter when discussing Sputh Korea or Australia. Tibet is a matter of Tibetan opinion.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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i told you, that todays china is still maos china.

huh,i m in china i know what was like and what is like.you've never been here so you dont have to tell me,thanks.even i spent years in the states i would not say i will tell you what the states is like,of cause you know your country better than i do.

this remark proved what i thought,you're stuck in the past ,man,wake up and come out.ask those who have been to china before and you will know how ignorant your remarks sound to them,but anyway it proves one thing that i m wasting time debating with people whose minds stuck in the past , refuse to learn other cultures and accept new things.how sad,even you regard china is a devil,people say better the devil you know,right?i suggest you learn sth about china first,after all that is a country many believed will be the next superpower due to the fast ecomonic development and great changes happening here.so,do yourself a favor,do some study,ask some people who've been here before,and then think about the statement you just made "that todays china is still maos china. "



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by beijinghaidian
 


That's 2 warns bh, now, will you stick to the topic, or do we have to continue this dance? Leave the propaganda at the door.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Here's one of my threads:

Your media is a lie

Visit the links and make some connections, and you will see what I mean. Apparently, the Western media will try do anything to rub # in China's face.

What makes you think that these people are not just actors?

What make you think that the shooting on the trail is actually in China? by the way when did they shoot these videos and that video?

So all you guys are saying is that these Tibetans never commited any acts of violence or terrorism that deserves to be cracked down?

I think Westerners are being brainwashed more by their media than the Chinese are being brainwashed by Communist propaganda. Western governments only hate the Chinese because they can no longer control China. What other reasons are there? Lack of religious tolerance? We HAVE religious tolerance. Lack of freedom? What type? Speech? In reality do Americans have more freedom of speech? You're not afraid to speak against the police? The government? Fear the results?

NOT EVERYONE thinks the way YOU do. NOT EVERYONE has the time to think the way YOU do. NOT EVERYONE gives a crap about the way YOU THINK. China has its own ideals, and it will not get pushed around by pitiful revolts such as this. If Tibet went free, Taiwan will be going too.

Maybe Western ideologies has failed China after witnessing all the imperialism. Western ideologies are what is suppressing the rest of the world.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


What are you saying? Are you saying that China has no right to control its own land? Maybe your oppinions are the least helpful.

China CANNOT deny what it did. That's that. With the internet, you cannot stop that.

Did you forget that it was the British who invaded Tibet first? They broke Tibet away from China and made it autonomous. Tibet was PART OF China LONG before 1949.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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Seen all 5 of the vids. Great work and so very sorry for the suffering of the Tibetan people. Torture is being done by many many governments in this world and sorry to say but some are worse than others. China is no exception. I wonder what would happen if Taiwan fell completely to the Chinese what would happen to the people then.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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I don't post a lot. But these videos were very eye-opening. I knew things were bad, but this is asinine. Nobody deserves treatment like his. America may have it's faults, but major human rights violations are far from them. Heck, our prisoners get more channels than I do.
Though I must admit, I feel a lot of sadness for "beijinghaidian." He has been brainwashed through and through. What happens when China decides to "save" another country? Do they come here?



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by beijinghaidian
that was shot by a romanian mountaineer,althout the quality of the picutre is not very good,but i would say that probablly true footage.that is a border area and for long time different counties do daily border patrol around that area,and that is also a important passage way to china by many infiltraters in the history,border tresspassing is also forbidden around that area.in 1962,there was a war between china and india,and till now ,two countries troops are still hostile towards each other.that is a heavely guarded border area.if some tresspassers were found the soldiers probablly will shoot,same thing happens in other side of the border too in the history.but i still say shooting people is bad,even they kind of ilegally cross borders,but human life is worth more than anything esle,i m very glad to learn that the army commander of that aera was severely punished.hopefully that kind of tragedy wont happen again.


in the second video China admits to the shooting and claims it was under self defense...

so... yeah... i dont buy what you are saying...



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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What I saw in that video made me angry beyond belief. I do not care what country anyone is from I only see other fellow humans being oppressed beyond belief. Whether it is Tibetans being tortured and oppressed or Arabs stuck in the same fate by our own out of control US administration.

And how can anyone say go to tibet and see it for yourself. As it was shown in the video in most cases where there are foreigners Chinese police dress as civilians to monitor the Tibetans. And on top of that people are arrested for venting their frustrations to foreigners. Or how about the man that his wife is being threatend with arrest if her husband does not return to tibet.

There is too much that I could mention but i think people forget the principle of occam's razor. "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." At the heart of this issue you have people risking their lives to escape tibet. Put yourself in their shoes. What would make you leave your family behind to travel through harsh conditions. If you are free and prosperous you would not do this. Why would you risk death and never seeing your family again if you are living in prosperous conditions?

And in regards to that poster Beijing. Yes my forefathers have made mistakes but we own up to it. And we do not censor our mistakes either. In America we can say anything we want about the government and not be arrested for it. And if anyone in the government or law enforcement steps on our rights we have the ability to fight back. We also do not dictate how many children a person can have or force them to be sterilized because the ability to have children is a simple unquestionable right. I can also drive through citys and states here without explaining to anyone why I am doing so. In no way is America the best country in the world because everyone has flaws. But I do know that I have many rights here. And I also took offense to having your security forces in my country and other western countries getting physical with our civillians over the olympic torch. If I were in one of those crowds and saw one of my fellow citizens pushed around by chinese security I would have pushed back. And those protestors were right to try and extinguish the flame. What sense is there having an olympic games when it is being held at the end of a gun barrell and all participating western countries must agree to being censored.



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