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Al Qaida European Recruiting Threatens US Security(new info)

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posted on Feb, 25 2004 @ 12:53 PM
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Based on reported qoutes from British MI-5 and French counter intelligence officials Debkafile is claiming huge numbers of native european recruits by al Qa'ida.

The members have joined in a recruitment drive known to al Qa'ida as "the white recruitment drive" or the "coffee shop conscription"

The numbers alledgedly existing are; France - 35,000 to 45,000 Germany - 25,000 to 30,000 England - 10,000
According to Debka report these recruits are participating in military training in groups of 30-40 under the guise of attending holiday camps.

Taking these numbers with a grain of salt lets say only 10% of the total 70,000 to 85,000 recruits exist, that still equals 7000 to 8500 recruits of possible European descent - that is a huge number!

If this report has even a shred of truth to it, the normal security apparatus will be severely taxed in trying to prevent terror attacks both in Europe and the U.S.

Debka report

[edit on 9-6-2004 by Phoenix]




posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 04:57 PM
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youre missing the point , take a step back look at the big picture and realise that the war on terror is............
a piece of # to make you grateful for the police state creeping up on you



posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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Germany - 25,000 to 30,000

..native citizens who spontaniously travel to the far east to join a terror camp? Uhm, you actually believe this terror-fear-bollocks you are spreading?

That's even more than the number of foreign people which are under suspicion.

Talking about stuff from Debka...man you are blind if you don't see that the source there has no journalistic background and is just propaganda.



posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Shoo - actually the article stated they are being recruited and trained in Europe. My opinion of the numbers was clearly defined to be taken with a grain of salt, what interesed me was the possible numbers if this was only 10% true - hell 1% is still a signifigant 700 - 850 of a virtually undetectable force.
Also in all the countries mentioned there is a sizable immigrant population from the mideast to draw from. This is a plausible scenario especially with the reports in todays news about all the missing blank passports.

And yes Debka is propaganda to those that are of anti-Israeli, pro-palastinian persuasion.


[Edited on 27-2-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by XFactor
youre missing the point , take a step back look at the big picture and realise that the war on terror is............
a piece of # to make you grateful for the police state creeping up on you


No I'm not missing the point, I just don't believe the terrorism was a plot cooked up by our own government like you do, but neither do I believe that the patriot act was the right way to fight an external threat - goes against my grain to violate rights of the innocent to catch the guilty.



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
And yes Debka is propaganda to those that are of anti-Israeli, pro-palastinian persuasion.

[Edited on 27-2-2004 by Phoenix]


Bullsh-it! I am not anti-israel and everybody should realise that Debka is as worse as the pages of the palestinian morons. If you consider Debka a valueable source you just admit yourself to ignorance - and we try to deny it here, don't we?

And about the first thing, even 1% is unrealistic. I could also state that 250 million Americans are paedophils, post it on my website. I guess you would take it with a grain of salt and at least conclude that 25 millione Americans are paedophils.
After I tell you that number might be too much it's just 2,5 million left.

You get my sarcasm? that Debka analysis has no scientific background and any further speculation on it is a waste of time.

Oh, and if you don't trust my statistic about paedophils in America I conclude you are one yourself.


[Edited on 28-2-2004 by shoo]



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 06:46 AM
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Lets look at this logically.

While many Europeans are anti American, they are also very anti arab and Muslim. The new laws in France are just one example. Europeans as a general population are very irritated and angry about all the foreign blood swarming thier homelands. Anti outsider sentiments are high, nationalism brewing.

The idea of Europeans actually joinging a religous nut group with suicide terror missions on thier minds are BS. While they may hate America, dying for Islam is not something they would do.

So, yes, this # is bogus. Most Europeans hate Islam as much as they hate the US.



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 07:14 AM
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But he forgot the 10,000 to 5,000 Americans



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Lets look at this logically.

While many Europeans are anti American, they are also very anti arab and Muslim. The new laws in France are just one example. Europeans as a general population are very irritated and angry about all the foreign blood swarming thier homelands. Anti outsider sentiments are high, nationalism brewing.

The idea of Europeans actually joinging a religous nut group with suicide terror missions on thier minds are BS. While they may hate America, dying for Islam is not something they would do.

So, yes, this # is bogus. Most Europeans hate Islam as much as they hate the US.


the new french laws arent specifically anti-islam, they forbid the wearing of any overtly religious items in schools. this includes large crosses, skull caps etc.

however, you are right that there has been a considerable rise in racial intollerence in europe over the last few years. the media's sensationalist reporting of asylum seekers has led people to believe that they are being swamped by foreigners. this is of course not the case. but this is not solely a european problem, the far right is also rising (again) in america and attitudes towards mexican/caribbean immigrants growing harsher.

anti-islam sentiment has also been increasing in europe - again mostly due to the way the media reports the muslim world. this islamophobia encourages muslims to become more vocal in their support for their religion which can eventully manifest itself in anti-western sentiment. this is the core european support of al qaida.

the statistics mentioned are probably without substance, but my point is that if anti-americanism is rising in europe, then it is the fault of the west. teaching people to hate is never a solution.



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by shoo

Originally posted by Phoenix
And yes Debka is propaganda to those that are of anti-Israeli, pro-palastinian persuasion.

[Edited on 27-2-2004 by Phoenix]


Bullsh-it! I am not anti-israel and everybody should realise that Debka is as worse as the pages of the palestinian morons. If you consider Debka a valueable source you just admit yourself to ignorance - and we try to deny it here, don't we?

And about the first thing, even 1% is unrealistic. I could also state that 250 million Americans are paedophils, post it on my website. I guess you would take it with a grain of salt and at least conclude that 25 millione Americans are paedophils.
After I tell you that number might be too much it's just 2,5 million left.

You get my sarcasm? that Debka analysis has no scientific background and any further speculation on it is a waste of time.

Oh, and if you don't trust my statistic about paedophils in America I conclude you are one yourself.


[Edited on 28-2-2004 by shoo]


Shoo, I don't understand what your getting in such a lather about here.

If you go back and read my original post you will see the words - Claiming, Alledgedly, the statement "grain of salt",
Possible, and the statement "If" Shred of truth".
These are not exactly "exact" terms of description and I used them on purpose - I never stated the story as "hard" fact, very few can be can be here at ATS.

As to Debkas credibility - they have been right on some of their storys in the past, but yeah just like many sites quoted on ATS one has to think about the "possible" after filtering the BS, I could spend all my time here on the board pointing out the incredulous sourcing of storys on all the forums - but thats not adding to the discussion is it?

Because european recruitment would pose an especially difficult problem for the security services I think the subject is worth discussion and I will endeavor to find multiple sourcing as time passes. Even if one does not like the sourcing the subject matter it is still worth hashing out in discussion - not dirision. I hope no offence is taken just trying to keep open discussion of the subject going for those that have differing opinions - Again as soon as I come across any other source denying or supporting this subject I will update this post.


[Edited on 28-2-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Lets look at this logically.

While many Europeans are anti American, they are also very anti arab and Muslim. The new laws in France are just one example. Europeans as a general population are very irritated and angry about all the foreign blood swarming thier homelands. Anti outsider sentiments are high, nationalism brewing.

The idea of Europeans actually joinging a religous nut group with suicide terror missions on thier minds are BS. While they may hate America, dying for Islam is not something they would do.

So, yes, this # is bogus. Most Europeans hate Islam as much as they hate the US.


100% wrong observation. You probably never lived in Europe(not saying you need to) but your conclusion is totally wrong.

First of the Europeans who hate the USA are a very small minority.
A huge amount of Europeans dislikes the way the US government acts - but not the whole government, especially 3 people. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Powell still isn't disliked.

Hate against the Islam? Sorry, but that may be true for some racistic morons but not for the average citizen. In addition to this I am not angry about foreigners in my country.
Ever saw how beauty turkish, greek or girls with arabian origin can be? Why should I be angry? Most of them are working their ass of here.

Your note about France just shows that the bit you know you interpret wrong. What was racistic in France? - remember, even in Turkey the pupils aren't allowed to wear religious signs on their head and in modern states where state and church is divided religion has no place in school.
And why shouldn't we ask foreigners to stick to OUR rules if I need to wear long trousers when visiting a Moschee in Saudi-Arabia? - skip your double-standards!


@Phoenix

Don't get me wrong, it's nothing personal but I am very tired of threads about "reports". We have so many reports from everywhere and nearly all have no notes where they have the info from or whatever. Debka always keeps it low profile on their sources as well, nothing exact, just "xxx government" or so. You just "eat" information instead of trying to see what's behind and thats what happens on this board in 90% of all threads, so sorry that I am getting angry here
but it is like that.

Anyway, I fully agree that if there are certain numbers of terrorists with European origin ready to hit the USA it will be very very hard to identify and track them. And furthermore, some of them might not be motivated by religious motives which will lead to another behaviour than the usual "Allah Akbar-terrorist"



posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 09:49 PM
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Updating and bumping because new info is now available on this subject.

"9 June 2004 - Al Qaeda Videos of British Suicide Bombers!

The Al Qaeda videos are out once again, and they are full of surprises. The young jihadi is masked, and clad all in black, in the manner in which we have come to expect jihadis to dress, complete with machine gun in hand.

But he wears sunglasses, and speaks in a British accent.

This is just one of many of the new recruits in Al Qaeda's Great White Army, which, if you believe the Al Qaeda reports, is now marching into battle against the "Crusading Forces".

North East Intelligence Network

"Discussion Board on this DLS topic German police and military intelligence estimate that they have about 3.45 million Moslems in the country, and that about three percent of those support al Qaedas objectives (Islam becoming the only religion on the planet). These Islamic radicals do not support violence, but would give aid to al Qaeda terrorists. More worrisome, the Germans believe that about 3,000 of their Moslem residents would commit terrorist acts to further the al Qaeda cause. The Germans also noted that there were 24 active Islamist groups in the country, with about 31,000 members altogether."

Strategy Page

This cadre of recruits in Europe could easily infiltrate the States for terrorist operations without atracting much attention to themselves.

If Al Qaida has sleeper cells in the states as the government suspects then it would make sense to use these recruits for attacks as they would pass most security nets with little trouble.




posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 10:09 PM
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There's been a few scattered reports of British and American men fighting with varied groups in Afghanistan and Iraq, and a recent one of two British attempted suicide bombers in Israel (only one succeeded, the other ran away).

This is a small handful of angry, disillusioned and impressionable young Muslim men. The kind of men that exist in all races and cultures; I feel a little sorry for them more than anything else. It's certainly not a huge contingent or mass immigration of forces or whatever they want to claim.

I recall the Germans used a similar propaganda ploy in WW2 saying they had a squadron of "British division" Nazis fighting for them when it was more or less a handful recruited with little choice from POW camps and a few nutters, used mainly for photo shoots and propaganda films. This is more than likely a similar ploy except the ones they have are obviously willing.


[edit on 9-6-2004 by kegs]



posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 10:25 PM
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Actually Kegs the Germans had large contingents of French, Belgians and many other european nationals fighting for them even as members of the SS, in fact most of the SS contigent fighting at the chancellory were of foreign origin, maybe the Brit claim was propaganda but the rest were not.

I've come across quite a bit of info from blog sites about this european recruiting effort on behalf of Al Qaida but the new links are the most solid sources to crop up in a while, there is a huge middle eastern population in europe that is available to draw from also - they could get visas easier than people residing in arab countries - I see the possibilities of this being done and cannot discount it as you have.



posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 10:44 PM
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You make an interesting case Phoneix, but I see a difference between those who are of European nationality that go about talking a good fight, like the follows of Abu Hamza in the U.K, and those actually prepared to go over and fight. The large numbers you talk of may be based on some who came from the Middle East to Europe in the first place and are not of European nationality, who came to Europe for the purposes of spreading dissent amoungst, and to recruit, European Muslims who are then talked into fighting.
In that case you may have a point, but if that is their plan then I don't see them getting the numbers they are counting on.



posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
No I'm not missing the point, I just don't believe the terrorism was a plot cooked up by our own government


www.washingtontimes.com...
The Bush administration issued a spate of terror alerts in recent days to mute criticism that its national security team sat on intelligence warnings in the weeks before the September 11 attacks. The warnings, including yesterday's uncorroborated FBI report that terrorists might target the Statue of Liberty, quieted some of the lawmakers who said President Bush failed to act on clues of the September 11 attacks, although Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle yesterday reiterated his demand for an independent investigation. The latest alerts were issued "as a result of all the controversy that took place last week," said Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer, referring to reports that the president received a CIA briefing in August about terror threats, including plans by Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network to hijack U.S. commercial airliners.
Above link was removed for some strange reason. I wonder why?!?

Terrorism alerts based more on political need than fact.
www.capitolhillblue.com...

Terror alerts manufactured?
FBI agents say White House scripting 'hysterics' for political effect.
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Britain accused on terror lab claim - Story of find in Afghan cave 'was made up' to justify sending marines.
observer.guardian.co.uk...

Nah, our truthful government would never make fake terror alerts. No never. I am a zombie, I believe everthing our government tells me. Yes, leader, yes.........


Does anyone read the news of what is going on around you or do u post from under a rock?



posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 08:49 AM
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NeedTruth, you have completely ignored the subject of this post but I do feel compelled to answer your ignorance.

Almost daily the NWS puts out tornado warnings based on radar observed rotation in the clouds, only a small percentage of these warning result in a tornado on the ground - an even smaller percentage result in death. Yet you do not accuse the NWS of terrorising the population!, People consider these warnings timely and appropiate.

Almost daily there are threats in intercepted communique's, warning are issued because threats are on the "radar", only a small percentage of these warnings result in an actual attack - an even smaller percentage result in mass casualties. Many people consider these warnings timely and appropiate.
Yet you accuse the government of terrorising the population!, whats the difference? its your political agenda - thats the difference! - I don't want people motivated by an "agenda" having anything to do with my safety - take your propaganda and shove-it.

Now if you have anything to add to the dicussion that IS TOPICAL, I would be glad to calmly discuss it.

Phoenix



posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Almost daily the NWS puts out tornado warnings based on radar observed rotation in the clouds, only a small percentage of these warning result in a tornado on the ground - an even smaller percentage result in death. Yet you do not accuse the NWS of terrorising the population!, People consider these warnings timely and appropiate.
Phoenix


Yea but the point you fail to see is these warnings are posted using known cloud patterns from previous tornados NOT FABRICATED news flashes to envoke terror.

Geez, the administration admits they were fabricated and you still deny the FACTS.


When you wake up from your zombie state and have anything to add to the dicussion that IS TOPICAL, I would be glad to calmly discuss it.


dom

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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As someone from the UK I'm well aware of a growing anti-UK/US sentiment amongst a small proportion of the UK population. These people are mostly of Asian descent and live in areas where there is already a high level of antagonism between the white and Asian communities. But there are some very unlikely people who are also joining extremist branches of Islam. It's not a scare story, it's actually happening.

What annoys me is that we've played into the hands of these hate-mongers by attacking Iraq in the first place. All we've achieved is helping Al-Quada in it's most successful recruitment drive to date. Blair should never have gone to war alongside the US, it was a stupid idiotic thing to do. And now the whole of the population of the UK are going to end up paying for it. Sooner or later one of these sleeper cells will slip through the net. If it wasn't for MI5 and MI6 we'd already have seen significant terrorist attacks in this country.

Also, further imposing a police state in the UK will only further antagonise minorities within the country. It's about time the government stopped acting like fascists and tried harder to solve some of the problems at the root of this situation.



posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
The Germans also noted that there were 24 active Islamist groups in the country, with about 31,000 members altogether.


That needs further explaination.

There is a number of approx. 35.000 muslims organized in student groups, here in Germany but there is NO terror threat coming from them.
The estimated number of Al-Quaeda sympathisants here in Germany is 200.

Take this for granted - from monday to wednesday I was on a 3 day seminar dealing with the terrorist threat to Germany. All information was based on newest and partly confidential BND and VS information and our consultant had a long time experience in this field.

Anyway we shouldn't underestimate the problem just because the media is overestimating it
The threat is real and extremists need close monitoring. What looks like a problem is in fact quite handy - muslims organized in legal groups here in Germany which make them "visible" to the secret services instead of working strictly underground.



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