Toltec,

First of all... Me and JTL are different people. Get used to it.

Secondly...

Child abuse in what way? Your making no sense at all.

Toltec,

"This besides being warned at the same time despite James the Lesser did nothing."

There was a particular reason why both of us were being warned.

"What your doing is child abuse"

If your assuming I let my children play violent game's or watch movie's like that, well...Your wrong. My daughter is four year's old, the extant of her computer use is playing game's on barbie.com. God forbid, right?

You should see her collection of disney movies. The very making's of a psychotic murder, right?

You really need to grow up, Toltec. Your starting to lose it. Go seek some therapy counseling before you hurt yourself... I'm serious.

OK James the lesser will give you the benefit of the doubt you a criminal though and through and a sick one to, You belong in Jail and to be quite honest if you lived in my state it would there be by tomorrow.

JamesG that you think giving children access to these types of games is reasonable youíre really no different in relation to your mental status.

Both of you are disgusting and I will not relate to garbage as anything else but garbage.

Toltec,

You really aren't that bright are you? Where have I posted that I think giving children access to this stuff is ok?

What has JTL posted that make's him a criminal? Does it have something to do with the fact that parent's are to blame if children get access to these thing's?

What is it that make's us disgusting? That we play computer/video game's geared toward's our age group?

Toltec, your making about as much sense as a four year old...

JamesG and James the Lesser am though with you from here on in I choose to ignore.

by Scumbags for Scumbags

Toltec,

If that is what you want, then so be it. You honestley haven't been making much sense though. Neither one of us advocate children having access to these thing's, yet you say we do. From where your getting this from, I don't know, as niether one of us has posted anything that give's that impression in any way. We are disgusting to you, for what...I'm not sure. I would hope it has nothing to do with enjoying thing's geared at our age level...that just seems...ridiculous.

I know JamesG, being 22 and playing M+17 games, I must be evil. And however old you are, playing M+17 games, must be evil. I swear, we should just kill as many people as possible and blame it on GTAIII, make toltec happy.

ROFLMAO!!!

Toltec will have a fit when he read's this...

I'm 23

Let the killing comence!!!

First, your kid four? You had a kid at 19? Dang man, not even a chance to party.

Second, I call Toledo, Detroit, Clevland, and Columbus for my shooting spree!

Kid's don't mean the end of life

I still have fun...sometime's

I get all of new england...Especially Rhode Island...Crappy driver's...They just piss me off so much

Video games have always been violent. What do you think you were doing with Space Invaders and Super Mario?

"Video games" or HIDEs (Hyper-Interactive Digital Experiences) are the television of this generation. Just as the television generation grew up and spent their money on digital technology, the digital generation will grow up and spend their money on __________ (no one knows yet). GTA is but a small blip in the evolution, just as Gilligan's Island was, a mindless brain pabulum blip in the evolution of television.

The number one best selling video game ever, The Sims, and the number two game, MYST; are both exceptionally non-violent. Sales of The Sims is currently outpacing the nearest current release by almost two to one. And judging by the pace of subscriptions to the online version, it The Sims Online will be the #1 online game in just a few months.

The more "adults" lament the GTA series and other violent games (get ready for the next Doon), the more attention gets drawn to them. Rap and Hip Hop have pretty much gone mainstream, teenagers can hardly use popular music as their rebellion... so they use the core of their culture, video games.

It will pass. Don't worry. Move on.

Originally posted by Toltec
Specifically I am referring to people who would by a game with the labeled M-17 and allow someone younger to play it.

Ok, then, I'm not worry. You was'nt talking to me.
I don't do that !

Originally posted by James the Lesser

They to blame, not the maker of the game or the game.

All of them have to be blamed. Those peoples who think to do the game, those who are doing the game, those who are promoting the game, those who are selling the game and those who are buying the game for their kids !

The only ones who can't be blamed is the kid, because she/he's a kid, and don't understand all what he/she do/thinks.

We are living in a society who don't care about her childrens and do not protect them from themselves and from the world.

[Edited on 29-12-2002 by ultra_phoenix]

The game maker's are not to blame. The rating's on game's are there for a reson. I'm sorry, but a mature person isn't going to enjoy 'Adventure's in Barney Land'. The people who give children access to thing's that aren't for thier age level are the one's to blame. Not the people who develope thing's for different age group's.

Good point, Mr. President, would you like to play Teletubbis Adventures? No, but a five year old would. Would you like to play GTAIII? Most likely, for it geared and made for a higher age level. Now if you were to buy it and give to your kid, you would be at fault. I am glad to hear you wouldn't.

But reason it has M rating for it is made for M people. A rated R movie is made or R people, not G or PG people. So if you let your PG kid see the R, it your fault, not the movie maker, writers, directors, actors, actresses, yours. If you buy a M game, then let your T or K play it, your fault, not the people who made it for M people. But, most parents would never take responsibilty, just becasue they buy it, give it to the kid, don't teach him right from wrong, then sue game maker when kid goes and shoots/cuts/kills someone. If the kid can't tell real from fake, why give him such a game? My nine year old cousin loves violent stuf, asked him why, because it fake and looks cool. A nine year old can figure out the violence is fake, so doesn't mean age is at fault. A nine year old who's parents made sure he knew it was fake, taught him gun saety, and all that stuff, knows that video games and movies fake. A 15 year old who's parent didn't teach him the same thing, play Slashers from Hell part 14, then slashes his sister because he didn't know it was fake.(that an ex, not real) Who's fault? The game company who a nine year old knew was fake but 15 didn't, or the parents?

If the parents don't care for the kid, and get him a M game when he should be playing a K or T game, can't blame the company who made it. They put M on it, and they mean M, not M unless your kid begs for it. Of course, M isn't always a age, some kids are mature enough to know that it fake, like my cousin, while some adults, like toltec can't figure out it fake.

I could shoot everything in Doom, Quake(awsome), Half Life(even better) and Metal Gear Solid, and no one would be hurt. A seven year old who doesn't know it fake and got the games from parents, might not stop at the game. Of course, I don't get how a kid could. First, need access to a gun, should be in a gun case like mine are. Second, must not know gun saftey, and third must know how to aim and shoot. Shooting a gun is diferent from a game. In the game, space bar, real life, trigger.

James the Lesser and JamesG ( are you twins ? :p ), I'm still thinking that peoples who are doing games where the goals is to do bads things ( killing, murdering, rapping, stealing..etc ) have some mentals problems and should be see a psychiatrist.

So I should see a shrink because I play QIIIA...

Why? There games. The people who make them don't put on it, after beating this game, keep doing it in real life.

Also, Quake, it about killing demon things, last I checked, can't do that in real life. Or half life, you kill aliens, and when they come, soilders sent to kill you and anyone else to clean up the mistake made. Not gonna happen in real life, so don't see how that could make a person do it.

GTAI,II, and III come close, but where a seven year old gonna get a shotgun, learn to drive, learn to steal a car without getting killed, how to run from the cops, get a uzi after running out of shotgun ammo, steal a motor cycle, a fire truck, so forth? Not gonna happen.

Besides, it a business, not real, and it is made to entertain M people. Not to entertain K or T people. Why they have a M rating on it. If it says M, a K or T shouldn't have it. But parents buy them for the kid, so parents to blame for not following the M rating.

And I already seen a shrink, they say we are normal.

Originally posted by JamesG
Toltec,

Actually, your opinion is stupid. It show's no direct knowledge of what an individual is like that actually play's these game's. I play them, I enjoy them, and yet, I'm normal. I'm not a sociopath. I'm not a clepto. I don't rape little boy's like some preist's I could name off now... I've already been in a heated debate before about this someplace else... The other guy lost.

This is as far as I've bothered reading into this thread, and don't imagine reading any further. This post says alot in and of itself, in my opinion.
Toltec did not say anything ridiculous, hateful, off color or not without merit, yet his opinion was labelled as stupid. This coming from someone who regards himself as a decent human. For the most part from what I've read of the other poster's writings I'd agree with his self-assesment, even though on some issues I disagree with his opinion. But the way in which a differing opinion is off-handedly disgarded says alot.

It is not uncommon knowledge that a person's brain is like your computer in that whatever you feed into it stays there. And, it is not hard to understand what you subject yourself to helps program your thoughts and eventually your actions.

If you ever go and watch an action-hero type movie, especially a kick-butt martial arts movie, watch the people as they walk out of the movie, especially teenage boys. You'll notice a bit of a swagger, a cocky attitude as if they have now become a billy-bad-butt. A psych prof had us do that, and it was pretty entertaining!

It is also known that the more acts of violence one observes the more callous to others one becomes.

There seems to be nothing "stupid" about Toltec's post in my humble opnion, but I'm a firm subscriber to the concept of "Garbage in, Garbage out." This is an accepted position by many, both by illiterate salt of the earth farm-types to post graduate degree holding geek-types. Eventually, when the person is at the weakest and enough garbage has been fed, the garbage will come out.

Anyway, How any decent person can play a game that is about violating laws and the basic liberties of other human beings and find enjoyment in it is beyond me. It is as unnatural as becoming a prominent member in an established religion that requires that in taking such position one must become celibate and not marry. Both are bad ideas and can (although doesnt always) lead to bad events.

James the Lesser and TB 795, I was not speaking about DOOM, Quake, Duke Nukem and so on. Killing demons, even if it's very violent and that kids don't have to play with these games,is pretty good, I agree.

I spoke about game where the goal is to do crimes ( rappes, murder, etc...etc.. )

You know, one day, I received a game ( I don't have it anymore, cuz I deleted the disk where the game was ).

The main goal was to set-up an extermination camp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you were white, you had to exterminate a maximum of non-whites. You were black ? No problems, your " guards " were all blacks and you had to exterminate a maximum of non-blacks peoples. You were an asiatic ? Same thing. You had to exterminate non-asiatics peoples, and so on...........

Everything was in this camp. Tortures rooms, " experimentations" rooms, gaz rooms...

Don't you think that peoples who are doing such games have to be all internated in a psychiatric hospital ?

P.S : The so-called friend who gave me this game is not my friend anymore since many years ! When I saw what was this game, I phoned him, asked him what he was thinking, and when I have heard " That's a great game man. Why, you don't like it ? " we weren't friend anymore !!!