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Originally posted by swami don
Everything else, conspiracy or counter-conspiracy, is just part of a Cosmic Game of amusement in which we all play.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
Originally posted by marg6043
perhaps due to something that has been bothering you for a while.
Imagine having a grandmother who´s been traumatized beyond belief by the holocaust (so much so that she was afraid to reveal herself even 60 years after the war was over)...
...and then having some smart-ass kidiot appear saying "the holocaust never happened. Its all Illuminati-propaganda". This happens almost every day here.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by observer28
Imagine I round up your family in the garden and shoot all of them down.
Later on I grin in your face and say "It never happened". But since I cant prove it never happened but very well prove that it did, I start watering it down. I say to you:
"Well, how many family of your family members were shot? I dont think it was ten, it was only eight."
"Why are you trying to push this information in my face? Why are you so eager for me to accept the official version of things? Only 8 family members were killed, not 10."
Originally posted by observer28
I doubt that were six million jews killed. Why? Because I've read convincing evidence? Mmm, perhaps, that is part of it. MY reason for doubting is because it is shoved in my face and if I DARE question it to the wrong authority figures then I'll have my ass tossed in jail, fined, harassed, etc.
If there is nothing to hide regarding the holocaust situation, why are the authorities being so forceful and insistent that we believe their version of the story? My personal experience tells me that something is fishy with the official line (as it is with many major events) and my very first clue is the fact that the authorities do not treat questions from the public with any sort of respect. Rather, the authorities send in their enforcers to ensure you comply or keep your thoughts to yourself. Don't forget about the homosexuals, gypsies and other groups targeted due to their "inferior" nature from the Nazi perspective. Why the focus on the jews and not the others?
So, I think that a holocaust happened however, I think it is HIGHLY exaggerated and very suspect. I should be free to express this opinion, but I'm not. Oh sure, I'm free to express this opinion, until I'm "caught" and punished for noncompliance.
Originally posted by observer28
Ok. You simply have attempted to rebuttal my statement with an emotionally charge analogy that has little to do with the situation, in an attempt to garner a empathetic response. How is your "what if" scenario any different than the dozens of "what if" scenarios given by the extremists who insist everyone else think as they do?
I see your point but I'm not biting on the whole holocaust thing man. It happened, sure, but WHY that number and ONLY that number when an actual count has never really be proven? You trying to tell me it was EXACTLY 6 million jews and to hell with everyone else? Why the focus the jews and not the other groups? Why is it that it is punishable to even ask these questions in some countries? Explain why the stories of this "witness" don't match the stories of that witness over here? I'm referring to the ones that went on and on about the soap, lamp shades whereas another said that never happened. Some witnesses even changed their stories for whatever reason. Many people have many valid questions about various events in history. The response from the authority figures is always negative and/or disrespectful; often forceful. If things are in the clear and things are as they appear, why not just clear up the questions and move on? And don't tell me it would take too much time and/or resources. Having historically accurate texts is important enough to warrant it.
Point is, YOU weren't there, I was not there. There are conflicting stories and numbers.
There are authority figures insisting that the public believe this ONE version of events whilst punishing and frowning upon those that don't adhere to said version. It is proven that the authority figures lie to the populace about MANY things. Why should I believe them about this? Or 9/11, or the Oklahoma City event? From my perspective, it seems that there is very little, if anything, that is public knowledge that is not meant to be public knowledge or simple propaganda.
Of course, you don't have the answers to these questions, nor do I and nor does your relative because your relative is not representative of the ENTIRE event. Only what went on in her immediate area/experience. But to force me, under duress, to accept the official version of events is enough for me to question the whole damn thing and the motives behind it.
My intent is to point out that things aren't as they seem and most especially usually aren't as depicted by the authorities. Surely, you agree I should be allowed to seek answers without having to be concerned about being turned in or punished in some way.
Please tell me why you folks keep saying your opinion followed by "I'm not free to expess my opinion". Ive seen this oddity many times.
"This and this and this is my opinion and Im not free to express it". A bit contradictory, no?
[edit on 21-4-2008 by Skyfloating]
Originally posted by swami don
As for the Holocaust, who cares
The theme of this thread is that some conspiracy-theorists are more detrimental to the world than the elite.
[edit on 21-4-2008 by Skyfloating]
Originally posted by swami don
It would be difficult to achieve any degree of heightened consciousness and not at least begin to realize the existence of conspiracies governing action in this world; as events all to often clearly appear to have been staged by one or more groups intended to change the course of human history to their own advantage.
If one wants to accept a good vs. evil dichotomy then it's necessary to define those terms and this is the challenge to most people who insist upon viewing things through their own rose colored lenses. Nothing is as it seems to the Initiated.
The moderator did this using personal examples to quantify his own experience in order to support and/or justify his own theory in a manner which appeared exceedingly weak and faulty to me.
All of us are on an evolutionary path, and all of us are works in progress, happening in a time frame which most cannot even begin to imagine. But the issue is not human development in an illusionary existence but Soul development in a largely unseen, and unrealized but very real, Spiritual Realm.
It seems foolish to assume that histories conspirators have altruistic goals in mind when in every case of which I'm aware they appear to be motivated more by the false Gods of money, sex and power; and obscene abuses of the same.
I too have often contemplated the matter under discussion and have struggled greatly with the obvious contradictions; as well as, the question, Machiavellian in nature, of whether or not the end justifies the means. I personally have come to believe that it does not.
This journey despite appearances is not headed toward the way station of "illumination" but rather toward the ultimate Goal of "Enlightenment." However, for one to be truly upon this Path it is necessary to learn the difference between these two, as well as, the difference between Good and Evil. All is not as it appears.
Until this lesson occurs it's assured that at some point the Initiate can (and will) all to easily be seduced to the Dark Side by the power inherently gained from Spiritual advancement; while at the time (and all the time) believing, and strenuously insisting, that the intent of his actions is for the good.
This is one of the most serious Trials placed before any Seeker/Initiate who achieves (and aspires toward) the higher levels; and I suspect that many involved in the Occult (hidden teachings) fail this test, and thus, can advance no higher thereafter; although in many cases retaining the dark powers already given.
Conversely, those who satisfactorily pass this test move ever closer to the Light; and with increased Enlightenment comes to realize not only the true nature of things, but also their place in the scheme of Existence, of which one part is not to interfere with human development.
This is not to suggest non-participation, nor neither to disallow a Shepard's role, but rather to realize that all things equal out over time: for there to be darkness there must also be light; where Evil exists there must also be Good, and in equal proportions (even if not readily perceived).
The important thing is that in the end, and at the finish line, there is neither good nor evil. Most importantly is that meanwhile, we all live, and die, by Grace of the Gods for reasons difficult to comprehend (but not impossible). Everything else, conspiracy or counter-conspiracy, is just part of a Cosmic Game of amusement in which we all play.
Originally posted by observer28
I completely disagree with that premise and you should know better than that. Name ONE event that was caused by some extremist conspiracy dude bent on proving his case to the world.
Originally posted by observer28
Note: said event must be proven to NOT have any sort of government involvement.
Originally posted by observer28
Tell me how concerned you'll be about these "detrimental" conspiracy theories when you are sitting in a prison camp, should things get that far. I understand you're just trying to start a conversation here, but come on.
* The "New World Order" will not be a totalitarian surveillance state but a "New Age" of beauty, freedom, diversity, self-determination, peace and prosperity.
3. "The occult involves satanic rituals, child rape, cannabilism, zombification and other forms of evil perversion. There is an evil occult theocracy ruling the world".
This lie is perpetuated by fundamentalist and evangelical christians who have lost touch to reality.
Anyone who actually studies "the occult" like I did, soon finds out that "occultism" is a mix of hermeticism, esotericism and applied spirituality.
It involves: Meditation, Concentration, Visualization, Yogic Discipline and psychological processes to invoke states of peace, compassion and appreciation towards humanity. Dont believe it? Join an occult society such as the O.T.O. As a all-talk/no-walk religious-zealout you´ll soon get bored by all the peace-inducing stuff practiced.
Originally posted by Alkhemist
I completely agree, and this is the one topic I have the most difficult time with. As someone who is doing her part to awaken others as much as possible to the fact that we're all on this planet together, I don't see the harm in having some sort of centralized government -- HOWEVER, I would hope it would work far differently than the mess we currently have. Such a government would also have to be accountable to the people 100%. I'm unsure why this hasn't been done....
Of course, I realize the current "powers that be" are not the ones for this job. They've thoroughly proven that. But if we had something like the U.N. (rebuilt and restructured, of course), wouldn't that make relations between countries more amicable? (Or maybe I'm an idealist....)
As a fellow student of "the occult," I can vouch for this. There are very few, if any, actual movie-style "Satanists" in the occult community. It may surprise some here to discover that most Satanists have rather high ethical standards, albeit a bit selfish by nature. People like Richard Ramirez, Charles Manson, et al., were not Satanists, despite their claims, but rather schizophrenics with homicidal tendencies.
I'm beginning to believe that the "Us Against Them" stance, no matter whose "side" one is on, may be the root of the problem.
Originally posted by Skyfloating
There is a sort of disinformation campaign waged by fundamentalist-christians to paint peaceful and decent meditators as blood-and-guts zombies though.
Really strange, that.