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The Reverse-Conspiracy-Theory

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posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 05:34 PM
reply to post by cruzion

People say slavery, but we're all already slaves to the wage, and they already control the money, apparently

Exactly! We are already slaves in a sense. And believe me if the NWO wish to enjoy our current level of technology, which their corporations helped fund or build, they will need society to operate in its current state. How would we be able to produce high technology if we are just run down, backbreaking slaves who do nothing but shovel dirt and drag our knuckles all day while tied to chains. Trust me the NWO has us exactly where they want us, a slave to the dollar and in debt to our eyeballs. Bring on the one world govt, the only hing it will change is the direction society takes and we have only one place to go: up.

posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 07:01 PM

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
I have struck upon this line of logic before in my mental meanderings several times in the past.
Here are some other ones:

-What would be wrong with mankind reverting back to a more agrarian,self sufficient lifestyle.That is what was intended by the grand design anyway,is it not?

Nothing would be wrong with that but i presume you realise the efficiency implications of being truly self sufficient? Do you realise how much energy and expertise goes into being self just in terms of food? Would there be a means to gain access to other resources by selling those you produced and if so how would that end result be much different from the current one?

what would be wrong with people driving less,getting excercise in the outdoors by propelling themselves on a bicycle,instead of being fat,lazy,fast food eating cel-phone talking heads killing each other on the roads?.

While i agree that being physically unfit have serious consequences for one's mental state i wonder how beneficial it would to spend a good part of the day walking or cycling to work and back missing out on at least the opportunity to read a good book, water and care for crops in your back yard or for that matter engage in social actions or organizing? Sure not many people would do it but i believe we can save more of the environment by efficiently managing our time and energy than we can by attempting to do away with quite efficient means of transport.

-what would be wrong with people having enough brains to home school their own children,and not send them to our "bacterial/viral breeding ground" schools?.

That means there will be one less person earning a income which in the modern capitalist economy is for most quite impossible to even consider if work is at all available. Fact is not forty years ago women could still work four our days and in so doing contribute more than enough to run a family but these days it's become all but impossible for most to do without another salary. Obviously this has come about due to the actions of the people we are discussing but it hardly changes the fact that it has happened.

-What would be wrong with people doing more work toward their own survival,instead of going to some store for everything,and forgetting how to feed and maintain their own selves?.

Because after ten-12 hours at the office/in traffic/getting ready for work you have done about as much as you can stomach to arrange for your survival. I wonder why you think Americans especially, who work the longest hours in the western world ( including Japan, South Korea and Taiwan), don't care about survival and don't work very hard at it! Maybe you are not the one who understands what one has to do to thrive in the not so free market economy?

-What would be wrong with people relying less on technologies to get by,and not destroying the ecosystems which they really rely on to survive,in the process of making all that silly junk we don't need?.

People employ technology in many ways and mostly to allow for keeping up with the pace of modern life. It simply mostly allows for higher efficiency and that's why people are not going to consider doing without! As for the destruction of the environment 'we' are not doing it and have consistently voted for environment protection regulations which our various governments fails to enforce them as they were tasked to.

-What would be wrong with allowing a child to learn to think on his/her own,before polluting his/her mind with religious brainwashing,leaving the child with the choice of what BS religion to choose?.They are all in fact just mind control...

Sure but what are you supposed to do with the kid if you can hardly get by one one salary? If he does not gain a formal education and at least learns what his supposed to say to gain credentials what is the chances that he is going to manage anything other than surviving in our service based economies?


Maybe not when all taken together ( a very different society) or if we could pick one but any random number of them is going to make the average citizen of a western country pretty uncompetitive in his local job market. Good luck ....

I am so disappointed at what a bunch of worthless,lost,mis-guided idiots my race has become.

So where do you think our current living standards comes from? Do you think humanity achieved it's current freedoms ,such as they are('nt) , without great cost to many? Do you think idiots would have achieved this? Maybe you need to read up on modern American history so you may notice that not a hundred years ago workers were still shot and killed for protesting 'illegally' and some neighbourhoods firebombed ( by army planes) to suppress 'rioting'. Progress IS happening and if it's not happening fast enough for you take some time out and consider if it's really a lack of mental capacity or 'laziness' or mostly due to the actions of those who wish to keep the power they have gained over the last few centuries.

Lazy,fat,fast food inhaling media whores and junkies,with no real ambition,other than to agrandise themselves,and pretend they are their own little emperors,when in reality they are a bunch of stupid cattle being bred,farmed and raised for slaughter,to feed some corrupt medical system,and have their organs harvested for the profit of the doctors and hospitals,without compensation to the families of those who died.

So the fact that Americans ( who seem to be the model for this lazy/fat/stupid argument) work more hours than everyone else never came up in your 'research'? How is that lazy and what does fat matter when you have a car to get to work? Sure people have become accustomed to pretentious behaviour but what are we supposed to do when we are watched like hawks by dozens of 'managers' who do nothing productive? As for the rest i don't think it's quite that bad even if it's obviously far far worse than most countries who bother to call themselves civilized....

Why fight what is right?,we would be better off without most of what we take for granted.

Oh we never had much choice in the matter and for the best part were dragged kicking and screaming ( if we didn't want to risk getting clubbed to death or at least back to a generally prone position) to where we currently are. Sure many got up and tried to stay up but they forget to mention how many Indians were killed for attempting passive resistance against imperial domination. It's not so easy and frankly human beings are not stupid enough to risk their necks if they can find ways in which to get by; survival is the choice 99% pick as long as the possibility exists at all.

If nothing in this life is free,we should use less,not go into debt to get what we WANT,when we already have what we need in excess....

What do we have in excess these days that we did not work for while enriching bosses of various descriptions? Why would you want to get by with less simply to prove a moot point? Don't you think most people want a simpler life but give up because they just can't find a way?

We are reaping our rewards for being complacent and ignorant,I will sit off to the side and watch the carnage.

Speak for yourself, please, and do feel free to continue to sit out on the very real struggle you don't even seem to be aware of. I suppose i should not get angry as most people do seem unaware of the price previous generations had to pay to achieve even the modest freedoms we enjoy today.


posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 07:11 PM
Funny slavery should come up,there is a type of slavery where the masters pay the slaves just enough to maintain themselves,but not enough to break free...saving them selves the trouble of maintaining their slaves,and at the same time fooling the slaves into thinking they are free,when they are not.
Actually a slightly altered version of the same old same old,for use in modern times....
it is called PEONAGE.
Do You See it?.

posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 10:16 PM

Originally posted by StellarX
Speak for yourself, please, and do feel free to continue to sit out on the very real struggle you don't even seem to be aware of.

It's fascinating how you can construct a good, insightful response to a post....and still feel the need to insult someone at the very end. It's a shame, 'cause I got right to this sentence, and......everything you said before it....bupkas.....

posted on Apr, 16 2008 @ 10:40 PM
reply to post by chiponbothshoulders

Actually a slightly altered version of the same old same old,for use in modern times....

I dont know about you but where i come from anyone how is willing to bite the bullet and pass high school, carefully research career opportunities, and go attend 1 or 2 year college course, which is now pretty much available to anyone through a student loan, can earn 80k + annually easily. But a crazy student loan you say? No problem! All you have to do is hold off on the LCD screen or that souped up ride for a year or two and play your cards right, youll have that loan paid off in no time with an 80 k salary.

There are two problems with this.

- Lots of folks dont feel the need to finish high school or go to colllege.
- Some people try to go for fancy university degrees or take a cookie cutter college program like PSW, Dental Hygene, or business admin, where there are little to no jobs and dont pay very well at that.

Basically anyone who does their homework can live pretty well all for a few years of playing it safe and reading the fine print. The fact is that people go strait for the LCD or they have to buy that brand new home in suburbia after 6 months on the job. Im only 3 years out of school, my debts are paid and im doin fine, im ready to buy a used home in a quiet middle class neighborhood.

Your only a slave with no way ahead if you put yourself there IMHO. If you think owning your home and being able to take trips or perhaps buy an ATV is being suffocated and held back then i would like to see what it is you consider freedom.

Trust me people work half as hard these days then people did 30 or so years ago. Work ethic and ambition has gone down the tubes in the last few decades. Most people want more without having to work as much for it. Ask anyone over 60 how much they used to work and compare it to how much it is they actually owned at the time.

Now sorry if i went a little off course with this but in regards to NWO issues, sure the banks are issuing more free money and creating a debt crisis, and yeah companies are tirelessly trying to get you hooked on their products, when it all boils down to it, it is YOU that makes the decision to borrow that loan or get that line of credit, it is YOU that buys the new entertainment system rather than buy groceries or pay rent, not the NWO. SO if you ask me all of us are equally as capable of destroying their lives as the NWO are. Perhaps the reason why people argue that the NWO is evil is because they are trying to place blame elsewhere rather than admit to their own flaws.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 04:33 AM

Originally posted by MrPenny
It's fascinating how you can construct a good, insightful response to a post....and still feel the need to insult someone at the very end. It's a shame, 'cause I got right to this sentence, and......everything you said before it....bupkas.....

Well i could have insulted him at the start but since he kept his open admission of contempt for the human race to conclude his otherwise reasonable post i decided to save my contempt for his statements , and him, for my conclusion. I have little hope for people who have such contempt for their own race and if this forum allowed me i could easily have employed more words to display my 'displeasure'.

As, almost always, thanks for contributing so much to this discussion.


[edit on 17-4-2008 by StellarX]

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 11:00 AM
Not all the top earners pay a fortune in taxes,if a company makes a million which is due to be taxed, if the tax payer buys another company for 1.1 million technically he has made a loss and so claim back tax ,also has another profitable business,and so does the same thing again and again.
The people are controlled by 3 masters ,1,religion ,2, governments,3,commerce, mind body and soul.
Why do they say (to you) never mix politics with religion? whereas all 3 discuss all things for their own advancement?
Its all about control. if we bought a house 20 years ago for xxx and now its worth YYY are we any richer? if we sell it, other property has risen also so have we made so much of a gain? as far as taxes are concerned on capital gains or inheritance tax ie, death duties,the government thrives.
Controlling people via income, religion and governments means that you always work and do as you are told because every body does the same, and we don,t want to rock the boat do we? Those that opt out of the system we? call hippies,gypsies, bums,vagrants , we are taught to look down on them by who? by those in control who cannot control them ,because they don,t live in the system ,don,t pay lots of taxes, and yet live reasonably well. who are the fools?

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:07 PM
reply to post by stmichael

Those that opt out of the system we? call hippies,gypsies, bums,vagrants , we are taught to look down on them by who? by those in control who cannot control them ,because they don,t live in the system ,don,t pay lots of taxes, and yet live reasonably well. who are the fools?

Bums and vagrants live well? Hippies maybe but even those who live on a commune somewhere still have to pay land taxes. Also hippies still require basic provisions that need to be purchased because in all honesty you would have to be a farmer to be able to live completely off the land and even farmers cant achieve this 100%. Also its a known fact that hippies don't work as hard as farmers. Many hippies from the 60s who still live in communes have either had to get jobs or turn their land into farms to produce income. Gypsies in Europe and Asia is a different story altogether and doesnt apply to this convo and the ones here in North America live as the equivalent of vagrants.

So you are saying that by going to work everyday that we are suckers? Did you know that the average person in the present works probably an eighth as hard as was REQUIRED by someone 200 years ago. Imagine trying to do all the chores and errands and tasks you do today, but without our modern technology. Everything was hand washed with no running water (water had to be collected and/or stored), most things you didnt have you had to build yourself, you had to grow, preserve and store your own food. You had to either walk or take a horse to travel sometimes as much as 50 miles. If you needed to send a message it was handwritten and sometimes took months for a reply. There wasnt anything such as instant meals, fancy foods, hygene related products, chemical cleaners, labour saving devices of any kind. If you wanted clothes and bedding you made them. There was no electricity, no cars. Most people had little access to education. Oh and the average person like 50 - 60 years. Only those who were very rich had access to a good life and lived relitively long. Everyone else worked. Seems the further you look back in time the harder one had to work to survive.

Back before cities when people lived in small tribes hundreds of miles apart from other tribes they still had to work to survive. Everyone had a role or a job to do that ensured survival of the tribe. There were the hunters and gatherers, the ones who stayed beind to raise young and to teach them, the ones who cooked, the ones who made tools and items for survival purposes.

So you see working for a living is not a modern day control issue, it is a part of who we are and a requirement of being alive. Everyone has to do it. All that has changed about it is the setting but the principle remains the same. There are only three types of people who dont work for a living:

- People who are born into rich families or who find a loophole into obtaining a vast fortune ( becoming famous, business idea). These people ALL live within the system as they still have to pay taxes and still generate an income of some sort to ensure they remain in their position.

- People who are disabled physically or mentally ALL live within the system because they are collecting some type of govt pension and still have to pay taxes. Most actually hold jobs that isnt affected by their disability.

- People who choose not to work. You know who i am talking about, the lowlifes, drug addicts, people who make excuses why they cant work even though they are able bodied.They ALL live within the system because of the govt checks they receive through some sort of social assistance program. There are some exceptions as to the reasons why some cant work but for the good majority, id say around 80% there is no excuse. I would hardly consider this as living pretty well though because social assistance hardly even covers rent as it is, let alone food.

So judging by the conditions that i have mentioned in my previous post on this thread, the smarter your choices in life, the better you will live. Slaves to the dollar and society? Sure but a 100k salary sure beats collecting govt welfare or searching dumpsters for food.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:23 PM
Alot of the reason why i think we are so resistant of modern practices and labeling them as evil made by the NWO is because by nature we are resistant to change.

This is how i see it. Basically we are at a turning point in the evolution of society. Not humans, but society. See we were at a slow moving pace for hundreds of years. We had small communities, small cities, small countries and easily managable threats to our existance. The worst anyone had to worry about a couple hundred years ago was an invasion by another country, an outbreak or a local natural disaster of some type. These days we worry about the same things but on a much larger scale because there is more at stake and more of us that can be hurt by it. Rather than having to worry about 50 square miles of land that we call or village, we now have an entire planet to worry about, other cultures to worry about. There is also more foreign interaction than ever before. There are probably 80% more unknown variables these days we must worry about than someone a couple centuries ago had to deal with.

We are basically at the pivitol point now in the transition from a primitive society to being a type-1 civilization. For those of you not familier with the term it means a spacefaring society or for you trekkies, post warp. For more info on civilization types click here.

This transition is apparently becoming difficult and can be related to as a kind of growing pain for society. Globalization is something we HAVE to deal with. If we resist world govt and our eventual disbursement into the universe society is sure to collapse. Just as the universe expands so must our society. If we keep bottling up the advancement of our species it will just eventually explode on us. We must put aside differences and greed and embrace world govt and most importantly space travel if we are sure to survive as a species.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:56 PM
reply to post by metaldemon2000

I pretty much see it not a little like that but exactly like that.

We´re experiencing a few birthpains of global change. Those who resist the change will suffer even more. Those who go with the flow will be able to handle it.

The central question of life is "Is the universe a friendly place?" (Einstein).

Ive chosen early on to say that it is. In general, life strives for an elegant mix of progress and balance and anything getting in the way of these two is sorted out of the evolutionary cycle.

The basic premise of the conspiracy-theorist is that the world is fundamentally an unfriendly place. This seems to be the echo of the old religious "born in sin" and "satan rules the world" type thing and is again echoed by an immature mass-media who tries to prove on a daily basis that life is an unfriendly place.

Is there a global conspiracy by puppetmasters in the background? Maybe. Is it evil? I dont know. But it seems more likely that the evil of the world is simply a reflection of the immature evolutionary level of humankind.

Illuminated Minds have no problems with stepping into the unknown and pioneering beyond where we´ve been.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 02:06 PM
reply to post by Skyfloating

The problem is how we go about getting everyone on board. This process can still take up to a hundred years or more. I try to live accordingly to the times. Currently i am personally trying to reduce the amount of resources i consume. I save on average about 200-300 a month now by reducing my utility and service usage and bying products that offer a higher renewability factor.

I see things like the Pacific waste dump and the Orbital garbage dump as opportunities to rapidly expand our regreening efforts and rapidly expand space exploration technologies and also to create hundreds of thousands of jobs in the many thousands of spin off sectors that would go part and parcel with any of these two ventures.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by metaldemon2000

I dont think its necessary to "get everybody on board". The mere idea contradicts the "new age" in which consensus is not arrived at by "everyone agreeing on the same" but everyone contributing their unique differences to the whole. Instead, all thats necessary is to look at oneself and contribute what one has to contribute. Like you just did with the excellent idea of re-greening the planet while simultaneously pushing space-exploration and the futuristic spin-offs it entails.

I think that rather than getting others on board, this expansion of humankind is unavoidable and wil take place no matter what. The question is if people resist it (=suffering) or contribute to it (=fulfillment).

Well...thats my idea of it anyway. While some poor shmucks are preaching doom until they get hoarse others will look forward to building a fantastic planet.

One of many thousands of examples of progressive-constructive-futurism:

The Venus Project

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:31 PM
reply to post by Skyfloating

I do not wish to "beat around the bush," so i will state it aptly, you are spot on. I am a member (Illuminon) of a Shard of the Illuminati. To fully understand my meaning and context, please read the True Origins of the Illuminati thread, I frequent it often and facilitate Q&A. Seeing your concept I am overjoyed that someone finally saw past smoke screens, and assembled the pieces of reality. Best regards to you for your willingness to defy "alternative mainstream."

- Maban

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:38 PM
reply to post by Maban

I am a member (Illuminon) of a Shard of the Illuminati

I hope you realize that by making such a claim that you are opening up yourself to critisizm on here. Not by me but by other on here. Just thought id let you know.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 07:47 PM
reply to post by Maban

I just returned from browsing through your answers you gave in that thread. Interesting read. Thats a bit closer to how I would imagine "Illuminati" to actually be thinking/talking.

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 08:57 PM
reply to post by Maban

Twas an interesting thread

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 11:34 PM
OK, I'll bite. What is 'Shard of the Illuminati'? What do they do, why do they do it, where are they based, what's their goals, how many members etc...

posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 06:54 PM
reply to post by cruzion

Please read through the thread i referenced previously, I posted many answers to your very questions there. If you find further questions I would be more than pleased to answer them.


posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:14 PM
Thank you for all who are interested in my postings.; I do fully recognize the opposition I am likely to face, I often face such because of the scarring effect of Remnant disinformation campaigns. However, I am of the mind a little (I use this term loosely, because it is subjective to point of view) "truth" in the public eye is better than none at all. I merely try to present things as I have seen them to be. I certainly cannot speak for all Illuminons, nor even a minority. However what I do implicitly state is what has become accepted as "common doctrine" and "cause" amongst the Icelandic Shards, and their respective Shards.

I will note that I am planning on generating a thread for the very purpose of Q&A. I am currently assembling previous posts, and other personal recounts into a cohesive and comprehensive thread post. All in efforts for advocating the open questioning, reasoning, and answers as the "true shape" of the Illuminati as it is today.

In overview, how those whom truly regard themselves as Illuminati are indeed nefarious but rarely share Bavarian Illuminati ties. Those whom do, fall into two categories: Shards, and Remnants. Shards are the result of Adolph Knigge's dedication to true Illuminism. Remnants are those whom represent more archaic, chaotic, and destructive means in an ends to gain power and control; these are mostly descendants from Wisehaupt's Bavarian Illuminati,of those whom survived the raid and continued on. The "Illuminati" movement consists of two opposing entities, both vying for control. Currently the Icelandic Shard and it's respective Shards hold majority control over the others and are working to bring them to reason or disbandment, atop other global activities we see as necessary. Our ultimate goal is to act as a "Global Stabilization Force," to ensure no "radical" changes take place in the long term picture. While most events can be curtailed some "Black Swan" events are virtually impossible to counteract. I look forward to discussing this with as many as those whom will wish to participate in this topics activities.

- Maban

p.s. I will post a URL here once the Q&A thread has been created.

posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 07:03 AM
reply to post by metaldemon2000

The point i was making is that corruption is on all levels, the more taxes taken, the opportunity for more abuse there is,the point about hippies is that they still survive.In the recent past in uk for every 100 pounds you earned 84 percent went in taxes both direct and indirect, you work hard to maintain your standard of living within your limits,whilst those in power irresponsibly throw money around like water.
When we are young we are ignorant,in time our eyes are opened and see what is false,you cannot put an old head on young shoulders.
Is the extra effort to rise to the top worth it at the end of the day,after all its the government,tax office ,irs,that benefit from all your struggling to do your best and be a good citizen. there is only 24 hours in a day ,to work 8 or 10 of those is fine,but many are forced to do more,that is my point.

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