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The Reverse-Conspiracy-Theory

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posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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This is an outstanding thread and I am happy to now be a part of it

Education will provide the light needed to find our way in the universe.




posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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Great Research. How long did it take you to gather all of these facts?

RCT? Interesting concept indeed but it sounds like an idea cooked up in a Company think tank.

Show me the video from the pentagon on 9-11-01, the entire video!

Explain the movements and whereabouts of some of the most important and richest people in America on 9-11-01?

Where did the 1 billion dollars in cash go that disapeared on 9-10-01 from the pentagon?

Where did the gold from the WTC go? There are reports that it was also moved before 9-11-01. (These are unconfirmed reports)

Why is the 9-11 commisson report incomplete?

Why were there plans to invade Afghanistan before 9-11?

Why were there plans to invade Iraq before 9-11?

Why was Enron and other business partners in talks with Taliban officials about a pipeline all the up to August of 2001?

It seems that you enjoy research. Here is one for you to look up. What is the amount of money Enron filed the BR for?

This is the big one. What is the amount of money Enron lost in India with the Powerplant deal?

If indeed you are not a Misdirection Spook Agent, I will think twice about my views if you can answer these questions?

I am going to be pretty hard to convince other wise.

Let us test the piece of metal that D.R. has in his house.

Answer a thousand more questions that I have and maybe you might get my attention.


Eye of Eagle



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE
 





Answer a thousand more questions that I have and maybe you might get my attention


Say for a second that he could even answer one of your questions, i think by doing so on here he wouldnt be around much longer. Also this wouldnt be the most appropriate place to expose the 911 conspiracy personally if i had the answers i would go to the international not the North American Media. Also this thread is not about the 911 conspiracy nor are we saying that the Bush admin is part of the elites or that we want them runnign the planet.

Bottom line is you want answers to your questions, then go start some sort of movement that pressures the govt for disclosure because some anonymous person on the internet is not going to be able to help you.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 10:58 PM
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Great thread!


What if some of the Reverse-Conspiracy-Theory is wrong?

It is very hard to determine who is involved in controlling what from being
just an average citizen. All we have by are these theories that sometimes do not make any sense.

great research!



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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No doubt a conspiracy exists. Most people want to live in comfort with others who are in comfort, too. This is not happening. Something got in the way of that. Maybe it was nature that put it there, though. I'll admit I don't know.

I'll admit that I am not comfortable with it all right now. I don't think many people are. The reason we even have any need to take these theories into consideration is because we don't understand why so many bad things have to happen when it's clear that nobody really wants bad things to happen. Maybe it is literally something we, as humans, have yet to discover in the nature of the way living systems function as a planet-wide entity. Maybe thoughtforms take on living identities of their own and either become agents of positive growth, or they become cancer-esque growths or viruses on the mass conscience, causing species to either flourish or become extinct, like their physical counterparts.

There is no doubt that we live amongst many illusions, but even with a field of blossoming questions, you can only carry a handful at a time. There's still plenty of harvesting to do. The most important thing is to always remember that you don't honestly know. All theories are welcome in a world of unending possibilities.

I doubt if we'll ever truly know why things are the way they are. If we honestly knew, what would be the point of existance?

The dark is the question of the light. It's what makes the light push forward. Evil or good, they both play an equal role in us humans always thinking something is up. Evil drives the good to ask "why?".

So.... in conclusion.... evil corrupt greedy NWO or "Illuminated" humanitarian NWO.... the end result of both would be similar.

I guess whichever one you choose to think into personal being is yours to decide.

What's gunna happen is gunna happen reguardless of what "should" happen if all goes according to the particular plan you subscribe to. Either way, it will be challenging. Either way, we're gunna have to think of some major new ideas to maintain the steady and healthy flow of energy that is required to preserve our species, and part of that is including as much LIFE in that solution as possible. The way things are currently set up, you could say is the "comspiracy" we need to deal with. We collective-UNconsciously created our own conspiracy to trip over, perhaps?

Reguardless, plenty of very obvious problems could be relatively easy to fix and very beneficial to the human race, and they are not being fixed. Enough people are constantly worried about these things to where you cannot say that it is just the collective unconsciousness of the world being forgetful and easily distracted by carnal things. SOMETHING is leading our minds in another direction intentionally. There is enough evidence to show that there are forces working actively against empathy FAR beyond simple human self indulgence. I just couldn't tell you who.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 11:41 PM
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The most important is where do rumors of conspiracy theories come from? Conspiracy theories captivate the mind, and can rile and incense you about 'secret' things for which you have little evidence. Wouldn't you expect most conspiracy theories to remain quite secret.

When things are developed democratically, you put together open forums, and solicit comments from anyone, who is interested. Alternatively, elites have private clubs and parties where they can socialize with other elites. When someone wants to accomplish something, they works their connections to find others, who will likely support them.They talk to them, and develop a plan. Using their elite networks, they can bring in those with the authority to enact what they desire.

I think it would be ridiculous to believe the elite is united in certain beliefs or thoughts. Although, they may at times be insulated from the reality of common experience. Different individuals and factions have different goals, but at times they coalesce. Besides, elites constantly debate and deliberate on plans of actions. For example look at "Foreign Affairs", the official publication of the CFR.



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by HuntaXX

it seems obvious to me that the majority of the media in the western world is controlled by one group and if they are trying to paint the Illuminati as evil then why are they using mass media to manipulate the masses on so many other topics but not these most important ones? its clear they are so arrogant they dont care if our 1% - 5% or whatever number it is of above average intelligence people know the truth so being too subtle about the way they "leak their secrets" would be a slow and inefficient way to try to taint our minds with lies considering how few of us there really are percentage wise and how easily they brainwash the majority of people. what are your thoughts on this?




I agree that the mass-media is godawful and "part of the problem". That would seem to be "a hole in my theory" if you will.

This is why I cant claim there is no global conspiracy happening at all. I can only say for certain that some of the groups and ideologies its been blamed on are not the guilty ones. WHO THEN is responsible for this mess? That would then be the next question and one of the purposes for spending time at this website.

I´d say that WE are responsible to 50% because of our demand for this kind of media...which oscillates between the mundane britney-spears type junk-food news and the extremely negative.

Some of what is posted here at ATS though is not an alternative to mass-media-indoctrination, its a continuation of the brainwash.

The brainwash is basically setting up different polarities against each other, especially stereotype ones at that.

left wing vs. right wing

religion vs. atheism

and a few thousand others.

The Machiavellian act of setting up two stereotypes while being the "third power" is reminiscent of classical illuminati-conspiracy-theory. But who is it thats doing the set-up? I dont know.

I just know who it is not.



You are certainly right about them setting up sides against each other ive seen them do it my entire life. ive also felt my entire life that there were dark forces are work in the world so i still believe there is some conspiracy going on with our world leaders but it never hurts to consider the possibility thats its mostly in our heads. it just goes to show how much more open minded you are than most
i often find the truth lies somewhere in between both extremes



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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Skyfloating, I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but from your first post it seems you are under the impression that conspiracy theorists develop these ideas from reading literature, thus becoming "brainwashed". The brainwashing can happen on either side for those for or against a particular conspiracy theory. I would agree that most people do get their information this way, but not all. Some who may post on here, may find it safer to provide information in a way that appears they are just repeating other's ideas. I'm certain some members on here know on a close personal level, some of the eilte groups (etc) and have first hand information and experiences that may not have been provided to you, that may enlighten you to have a clearer view on some of the matters you mentioned.

[edit on 15-4-2008 by violet]



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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metaldemon2000: are many countries that are either too religiously dominated or some are still having trouble industrializing and they are just not ready. In this case non disclosure seems adequate.



premature disclosure might cause scars in the self-confidence of humanity. Look around here, at how people view "authority/power". Someone with authority shows up and they go into slander-mode, blaming the person for every ill they ever experienced. In this atmosphere its hardly likely that extraterrestrials would show up...if they care about humanity.




azure heart: Call me an eternal optimist, but I think we are trying to move towards a positive future.


There are a lot of positive things, measures and movements happening today, but they are not reported on strongly...neither by msm nor by sites like this. People are still hooked like a drug-addict to disaster and crime, as if the news is supposed to be action-entertainment. Too much harmony and peace and many get bored.

This is why movies containing blood and terror are box-office-hits.





BluByWho:

What would be so bad about a one world currency?

What would be so bad about a set of laws that applied to everyone?

What would be so bad about a set of world leaders responsible for the whole globe?

I dont think we should have a world president or anything like that, as a matter of fact I think the US needs multiple presidents, either 3 or 5.

Why not a world governing body. Bring on the NWO. Everyone wories about slavery and oppression. If you cant figure out how to control .5% of the worlds population, how on gods green earth are you going to control the masses aka the other 5.7 billion people on planet earth.



Nothing wrong with these things at all. Especially with your proposed system of something like a "board of managers" ruling, rather than one person. Or better yet, a representative from each country.

The UN is a pleasant and level-headed attempt at a one-world-government. But they havent been given much power (yet) because people are afraid.





Illahee: Phillipe looks pretty normal vs the writer of the book who has obvious reptilian eyes


Exactly my point. From looking at those pictures I dont get the sense of Phillipe being any more evil than the "illuminati expert".






GhostR1der: I've always been on the fence regarding NWO/illuminati theories etc. Bilderberg group is one thing that I have always wondered about... what DO they actually stand for and what DO they do......


My original question to myself was: Why assume the elite/rulers are any different than us? They probably do some things of benefit to others and some things of benefit only to themselves. Considering they are human, they probably behave just like us, are a reflection of our behaviour on a micro-level.




Ace-Wombat04: I ask that anyone who reads this please keep in mind that this is predicated on the hypothetical scenario in which a secret, global "over-order" does exist.


Yep. "They" may not even exist. And even if "they" do..."they" may not be responsible for the way we make our lives.




zenfish: All right. But apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine,
public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, public
health and safety... What have the Romans ever done for us?



Life of Brian, eh? I think this sums up the point of this thread perfectly.




[edit on 15-4-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:08 AM
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This thread certainly gave me some things to think about.

I can't say that I know what the powers that be objective is. Although, I wonder if there are people in power planning something good, why do they remain silent now?



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:36 AM
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EyeOfEagle: Answer a thousand more questions that I have and maybe you might get my attention.


There are irregularities regarding 9/11. A conspiracy. But that doesnt mean I have to now become and evangelist or assume that everything is a conspiracy. Neither to I have to give into apathy or fear. Level-headed research will bring to light what happened and who´s who...without needing to jump to conclusions.




Equinox: What if some of the Reverse-Conspiracy-Theory is wrong?


It probably is. I just invented the term for this thread. And since I dont know everything, some of my "knowledge" will be completely off track.





indierockalien: SOMETHING is leading our minds in another direction intentionally. There is enough evidence to show that there are forces working actively against empathy FAR beyond simple human self indulgence. I just couldn't tell you who.


Lets say I clean up my own life. If then there´s STILL something wrong with it, I´d start looking at outside influences who corrupt the world.

The "problem" I have is with the hysterical frenzy drummed up by doomssayers. If there indeed is a grand-conspiracy, of what use is fear, hate and hysteria gonna be? NONE. In fact, it would play into the hands of those conspirators.

If "they" exist, they would hate it if Im not in unmoving apathy and fear of them.



violet: Skyfloating, I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but from your first post it seems you are under the impression that conspiracy theorists develop these ideas from reading literature, thus becoming "brainwashed". The brainwashing can happen on either side for those for or against a particular conspiracy theory. I would agree that most people do get their information this way, but not all. Some who may post on here, may find it safer to provide information in a way that appears they are just repeating other's ideas. I'm certain some members on here know on a close personal level, some of the eilte groups (etc) and have first hand information and experiences that may not have been provided to you, that may enlighten you to have a clearer view on some of the matters you mentioned.


Yes, Im under the impression that some conspiracy-literature brainwashes people.

People seek to explain the chaos around them. Many explanations are offered.

But if the FRUIT of those explanations lead someone to express hate towards various groups, who knows how "true" that information is?

Sure there´s corruption out there. But there are also some really, really nice people among the "elites". I know this for a fact because I "went out there" and not only speculated in front of my computer.





crontab: Besides, elites constantly debate and deliberate on plans of actions. For example look at "Foreign Affairs", the official publication of the CFR.


People here will hate me for saying this but: Thats intelligent and constructive reading. People who are concerned with how to make sense of the mess we are in. People trying to define common goals...which is extremely difficult considering all the competing factions and the variety of opinion.



hunta: i often find the truth lies somewhere in between both extremes


Probably.



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:47 AM
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Im always happy to keep an open mind to all possibilities but im completely certain that there is a dark force working against our progression



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by HuntaXX
Im always happy to keep an open mind to all possibilities but im completely certain that there is a dark force working against our progression


But what if this dark force wants you to be afraid and wants you to think that you dont stand a chance against it?

Wouldnt downplaying the importance of this force be exactly what this force does not want?



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:54 AM
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Hmm... I will read the rest of the thread later, but right now I don't want to lose ideas I got while reading the opening post...

With this thread, you have crossed the border of the black-white make-believe world, and stepped into a very, very grey zone of reality. There are so many intents out there, competing over one thing or another, that it's just impossible to put a sticker on them and label them all as Illuminati, or New Agers, or NeoCons or whatever. While most of them just follow the path set out for them by someone else, some are not what they appear to be (on both sides of (un)believeability).

I will try to provide my pros and cons to this little exercise in (il)logic.

* "The Illuminati" are "the enlightened ones" - forces of progress, goodwill and enlightenment.

You've hit the nail on the head with this one. That's exactly what I have found Illuminati "believe". Here is just one example.


"Around the edges of the capstone are written more words repeated in the four "dead" languages of Sanskrit, Babylonian Cuneiform, Egyptian Hieroglyphics and Classical Greek. They translate: "Let These Be Guidestones To An Age Of Reason."

Source

The phrase "Age of Reason", along with accompanying phrase "In Harmony with Nature" can often be found with Illuminati-related monuments and texts.
(The Georgia Guidestones)

It may sound all nice and cozy, until you learn what they are actually talking about (but not even the top ones I've read about truly understand).

Since personal experience is the only real knowledge there is, I can only speak from personal experience. I've said that countless times before, and here is one example:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The following ("speculation", some may call it) is completely based on my personal experience (the link to the actual experience is further down that page):
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now that we've established some "facts" (which are facts only for me personally; others will have to put some effort of their own into seeing the world as it is), we can speculate.

Since this world is one giant Pyramid Scheme ("Pyramid Scheme" on Wikipedia, Economics side of reality), there is a hierachy of power out there. Humanity is just one itsy-bitsy-tiny, almost completely unimportant part of this world, and thus - that scheme.

This much is Illuminati knowledge as well. So, when they speak of "Harmony with Nature", they are actually saying this:

"You are on your level of the pyramid. If you are low, then you can either stay there (by your own will), or you can struggle and climb up the ladder [this is the "competition" part of modern western society]. If you choose to stay down there (and we're going to do our best to keep you down), it is your fault, and yours only. You weren't strong enough, therefore you deserve what you get. It is a natural condition for us to rule over you (since we are stronger than you)."

Of course, they would never say it so openly and in so many words, but that is the nature of "competition" inside Illuminati pyramidal structure as well. They don't forgive their own kind, so why should they forgive anyone else?

Naturally, there are currents and currents within Illuminati movement that join forces to accomplish one goal or another, even occasionally taking moves against each other. But the overall scheme always stays intact. It is The Rule, and anyone who goes against The Rule is dealt with accordingly (well, they try that at least, but sometimes they hit a brick wall themselves).

What's so progressive about all this? "Competition", that's what is. Science is the tool, and competition is the rule of progress. That basically sums it up.


* The opponents of "the illuminati" are the forces of death, bigotry, stupidity, oppression, suppresion.

A very local and reasonable stand.

Illuminati came to real power with science on their side. Religion really had no chance in those times the modern science began to appear. Some claim that scientific path was indicated to Illuminati by "higher powers" as a road to power (and liberation from "religious blindness"). I have no direct knowledge of that, but by my own experiences, I can say that certainly sounds very probable.

Thus, "the forces of stupidity, oppression, etc." are automatically linked to religion, even today, 200 years after. What Illuminati didn't understand then, and still don't understand now (though they have a long, long history behind them to learn from, going back to ancient cults and occults), is that it's all about control.

Religion was once used as a very effective form of control... but, alas, it's server its purpose and fell to science... which became a new religion of "The Age of Reason".

A funny paradox, isn't it? Science as new religion... But it is with those who control. Scientists are seen as merely "inellectual cannon fodder" for advancing this new religion. And just like previous religion, the science will try to take control over people (that has been in the making for quite some time now).

And after the science... well, that's one interesting question. Illuminati do speak of age after the science you know. It's commonly known as "New Age", or "Harmony with Nature", and all those sugar-coated stuff they like to sell to people. In those future times, the science will no longer be the knowledge fit for the masses, but scientific method will be used to control those masses.

Well, that's the plan anyway, but as they say in the military:
"Every plan is a good plan... until you try to put it into practice".


* The "New World Order" will not be a totalitarian surveillance state but a "New Age" of beauty, freedom, diversity, self-determination, peace and prosperity.

Ah, I see I've already discussed that one.
I may have something more to add, though... "Love & Light" (tm), just a selling point, or something more?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

To conlude... I don't believe in Illuminati benevolence, simply because I can see intent behind their actions. If they ever believed in benevolence themselves, those days are long gone.



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:54 AM
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Metaphysical Reasoning

In metaphysical and psychological reasoning it is apparent that evil forces get their "energy" not only from people who support them but also from people who oppose them.

This principle is found in the term "There is no such thing as bad publicity".

Example:

Bush does something bad.

Immediatly there are millions of people in the world who are whipped into a frenzy about his actions...

...thereby feeding him with attention...feeding him with importance...feeding him with significance...feeding him with meaning.

Mass-emotion directed against him might not be hurting him but instead allowing him to maintain power.

This is why I much prefer the more unemotional conspiracy-researcher who coldly and plainly presents the facts.

If we start buying into the idea that they are soooooo verrrrrrrrrrrry powerful and that there is NOTHING we can do to stop them, we´re lost.



[edit on 15-4-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by elendal
 


Excellent post. It shows the thesis-antithesis-synthesis scenario (pyramid) played out once again with religion - science - "new age", imo.

Tell us more.



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
I agree that the mass-media is godawful and "part of the problem". That would seem to be "a hole in my theory" if you will.


Well the control of the mass media is part of the solution for those who indoctrinate mankind trough it's use...


This is why I cant claim there is no global conspiracy happening at all.


Which would be a hopelessly ignorant thing to claim with or without the obvious suppression and control of news trough MM.


I can only say for certain that some of the groups and ideologies its been blamed on are not the guilty ones.


Which is bound to happen in the confusion as those who have most power set about dividing their enemies against each other. In the confusion it's mostly innocent ignorants who die but obviously real enemies can be destroyed as well.


WHO THEN is responsible for this mess?


I suspect it's the people who gain more control over resources ( money if you will ) as we speak? Isn't that surely the class that are either actively destroying the planet or have at least been co-opted into actively aiding whichever smaller groupings are in fact attempting control over this planet?


That would then be the next question and one of the purposes for spending time at this website.


Since we know that there are people who seemingly have the power to control the world media with surprising efficiency, while gaining riches and resources, can we not surmise that what chaos and destruction we do find are generally taking place by design or due to resistance to their goals? Is that not what the interventionist policies largely funded by the west ( in the last few centuries) indicates?


I´d say that WE are responsible to 50% because of our demand for this kind of media...which oscillates between the mundane britney-spears type junk-food news and the extremely negative.


It is in fact well understood, at least in some circles, that most people ,when polled, do not generally like what they see on TV ( irrespective of what they choose to watch) and have complaints about both the quality and the content. The fact that we see anything worthwhile on TV , beside corporate propaganda, is ironically due to the fact that corporations wish to advertise and therefore must give us at least some of the things we want to see. Obviously they do their best to fund programming that does not seriously undermine their consumer ideology but first and foremost they must keep you watching so you may consume before they can consider how best to warp your views to further their ends.


Some of what is posted here at ATS though is not an alternative to mass-media-indoctrination, its a continuation of the brainwash.


This thread is not in my opinion a bad example either...


The brainwash is basically setting up different polarities against each other, especially stereotype ones at that.

left wing vs. right wing
religion vs. atheism
and a few thousand others.


No question about that but it has more in common with the divide and conquer principle than with polarities as i don't believe that polarities exist to start with.


The Machiavellian act of setting up two stereotypes while being the "third power" is reminiscent of classical illuminati-conspiracy-theory. But who is it thats doing the set-up? I dont know.


It's obvious, to me at least, that the principles pre-dates Machiavelli by a few millennium so i don't like to give credit where little is due... I find that normally they seem to work from the even simpler principle of pretending to fight the evil they know the exist in themselves. It's not that hard to stage such a pretense when you know that evil is in fact real and may in fact be a good way to describe the leadership of a hostile faction.


I just know who it is not.



Well i think most people are still with the basic conspiracies ( which are probably closer to the truth) so i don't have much hope for this particular thread or for that matter any reason to think that it has reason to be widely appreciated.


Stellar



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro

Originally posted by andy1033
The illuminati are elitests, so they too, are wrong, in a way too. How can they call people racist, when they only inter marry certain family lines. Thats a racist outlook.

So there is one thing that goes against the outlook you portrayed.


This is exactly what the OP is talking about. You sound like Alex Jones. Its another "reported" evil trait.....the inbreding evil elite. I think the OP makes a valid point......maybe its time to turn the Microscope on those that build these conspiracy theories, what is the agenda in the fear mongering through all this "evil" tagging of certain sub-cultures that we label Elitist, secretive and exclusive.


You are correct, spreading fear to the point of putrid hate(alex jones) cannot be healthy. But, we must keep educated and see the "elite" for what it truly is. We must begin to see the how they operate and weave their lies throughout our everyday life. Once we all can see this, they will have no power. They hide in the dark. The light will expose them. btw.. you need not to worry, without us.. they would crumple and die. (without us thinking the way they want)



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 05:23 AM
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Is the world in a bad condition?

Im going to expand on the opening post by making the bold claim that the world is not in as bad of a condition as the conglomerate mass-media and conspiracy-theorist say it is. (Notice how the conspiracy-theorist and the mass-media agree in this).

Statstically, 99% of the land-mass of earth and 95% of the people are currently at peace, with not even 1% currently using a killing-device.

This is a simple fact completely at odds with what everyone seems to believe.



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


So given the following options, what do you think is the greatest control-tool? (Im looking for a ranking).

* Control of money
* Control of resources/supplies
* Control of media/information


Which of these streams exercise power over the other? Of course they are interdependent, but who would you think has the final say?






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