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reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 02:12 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist

www.spitfirelist.com...
It’s a good thing we didn’t lose World War II. If we had, all our public officials would be named Shultz, Weinberger and Kissinger, and everybody would be driving German and Japanese cars.”—Popular joke that made the rounds in the early 1980’s.

<1>
Under Cover – My Four Years in the Nazi Underworld of America
by John Roy Carlson, 1943
spitfirelist.com...

Review by Dave Emory www.spitfirelist.com...
Posing as a sympathizer and activist on behalf of the Nazi cause, Carlson gained access to the inner sanctum of the traitors—great and small—who sought to replace the Stars and Stripes with the Swastika. In Under Cover, the author chronicles the operations and ideological tenets of a large (and frequently overlapping) group of organizations that operated on behalf of the Third Reich (and also Imperial Japan). As Carlson illustrates in the book, the “small fry” domestic fascists are often cats’ paws for larger, more prominent political and economic figures. Many of the organizations were actually directed and financed by the Deutsches Ausland Institut—the foreign section of the Nazi party of Germany.


On the Nazi Origins of Islamic Fascism
February 19, 2008: FTR #622: More on the Nazi Origins of Islamic Fascism wfmu.org...
February 13, 2007: FTR #583- Update on Islamic Fascism wfmu.org...

June 26, 2007: FTR #600: The Axis Revisited: Changing the Past and Controlling the Present | wfmu.org...

December 26, 2006: FTR #456 (rerun): Compendium on Nazi & Fascist Connections to 9/11 wfmu.org...

wfmu.org...


[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 02:31 PM by counterterrorist
Martin Bormann, Nazi in Exile by Paul Manning
www.spitfirelist.com...
Book Description by Dave Emory
www.spitfirelist.com...
Controlling German big business and, through investments, much of the rest of the world’s economy, the organization was the repository for the stolen wealth of Europe, estimated by British intelligence to have totaled more than $180 billion by the end of 1943 (not including the money taken from Greece and the former Soviet Union, nor that taken after 1943.

With its economic, political and espionage capabilities, the Bormann group embodies the triumph of the forces of National Socialism in the postwar period. Whereas the United States was the dominant element within the international cartel system prior to, and during, World War II, the Bormann group is the primary entity in the postwar global corporate economy.



[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 02:46 PM by counterterrorist
The Nazis Go Underground by Curt Reiss
www.spitfirelist.com...
Commentary by Dave Emory:
www.spitfirelist.com...
The Third Reich’s elaborate plans for postwar underground survival and continuity were predicated on the certainty that the multinational corporate community would preserve the Nazi infrastructure as a bulwark against communism during the (then) imminent Cold War.



[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 03:03 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist


All Honorable Men by James Stewart Martin
part 1: spitfirelist.com... part II spitfirelist.com...
Book description by Dave Emory
www.spitfirelist.com...
John Stewart Martin said: “The eco[geo]political masters of Germany boosted Hitler and his program into the driver’s seat at a time when the tide in the political fight between the Nazis and the supporters of the Weimar Republic was swinging against the Nazis. All of the men who mattered in banking and industrial circles could quickly agree on one program and throw their financial weight behind it.”


Martin said there were just 100 men in Germany to accomplish that described in the above paragraph.

It looks like his prediction has come true for us, today: 2012 wars & mass starvation & genocide & prison camps.
In 1943 --
John Stewart Martin said: “If the United States should run into serious economic difficulties, however, most of the conditions for a re-enactment of the German drama would already exist on the American stage. The slight differences within the camp of the fraternity then may be the only real barrier to the kind of integration of the financial and industrial community behind a single repressive program, like that which the financiers and industrialists of Germany executed through Hitler.”







[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 03:09 PM by counterterrorist
Cairo to Damascus by John Roy Carlson, 1951
Part I spitfirelist.com... Part II spitfirelist.com...
Book Description by Dave Emory
www.spitfirelist.com...
With alarm, Carlson wrote that, if the situation were not corrected, the Third Reich alumni in the “Holy Land” would precipitate a catastrophe of epic proportions. In the post-911 era, his words are haunting.






[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]



reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 03:36 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist


Armies of Spies by Joseph Gollomb, 1939 (1.7 MB)
spitfirelist.com...
Book Description by Dave Emory www.spitfirelist.com...
Joe Gollomb says:
“Corresponding to the company unit, say in infantry, saboteur-spies work in groupings which the French have named after the word for nest, nid. The average nid consists—again to use other terms the French have developed—of about one hundred moutons, eighty dupeurs, and twenty baladeurs, all working under an agent fixe. Moutons specialize in industrial sabotage. Dupeurs confine themselves to military and semimilitary information and work. Baladeurs, or ‘strollers,’ are freelancers, who go wherever their superior equipment prompts them to go. Unknown to any of the nid are trafiquants, spies sent from Berlin to watch their own spies, to see that there is efficiency and no graft or double agent trafficking with the enemy.”


CT: Note that The Nazis Go Underground also describes the German use of “cells” with two people in each cell …one being anonymous, and the other infiltrated into government. Also note that the U.S. mainstream newspapers start talking about intelligence “cells” after wtc/911. Now that we see that Bank-of-England/Fed interlocking directorate and private shareholders financed Hitler along with Harriman & Rockefeller through puppets (operatives/walk-ins/cut-outs/like Dulles, Casey, Bush, Clinton and the Royal Family while at the same time co-founding Saudi Arabia and co-founding bin Laden and all the petroleum/drug/banking laundering operations AND financing ALL the current terrorism and terrorists (“terrorism is State-financed and financed by entities like Halliburton, and Brown & Root) … and we KNOW who is jacking up gas prices and food prices … what are we gonna do about it? …call ghost-busters?

I never even knew about 2012 before coming on this site three weeks ago, and now I’m posting videos showing the inside electronic steel gates inside U.S. “holding camps”. Thanks to all you ATS folks. That’s why I proposed a newspaper and news service so the work of us 135,000 ATS folks can penetrate to 230 million folks in the U.S., 60 million in Britain, and the other 4-6 billion. www.abovetopsecret.com...' -- & a news service




[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 04:12 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist


Germany Plots with the Kremlin by T.H. Tetens, 1953
Part I spitfirelist.com... Part II spitfirelist.com...
Book Description by Dave Emory
www.spitfirelist.com...
While describing what Tetans is talking about in 1953, Dave quotes Dorothy Thompson writing in The New York Herald Tribune on May 31, 1940!
“The Germans count upon political power following economic power, and not vice versa. Territorial changes do not concern them, because there will be no ‘France’ or ‘England,’ except as language groups. Little immediate concern is felt regarding political organizations . . . . No nation will have the control of its own financial or economic system or of its customs.


CT: hmmm. here's the url's on Iran's proposed Oil Bourse toppling the U.S. dollar.
www.dissidentvoice.org...
here's another really good article
www.iran-daily.com... talking about pro-western Saudi’s making a new currency for oil.
And didn’t Esoteric Agency video www.abovetopsecret.com...' talk about Bush had signed an agreement with Canada and Mexico and the U.S. to make a new currency. C’mon folks … we already know the Bush’s helped finance Hitler before, during and after WWII. I think I will call ghost-busters, after all.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'


[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 07:17 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by KilgoreTrout


My response to KilgoreTrout (1-of-5)
I'm afraid your very brilliant observation expressed in a few words has illicited a rather lengthy response from me, which may or may not address your issue, but will probably address my issues ... hopefully, it will be of use to both of us.

KilgoreTrout wrote in regard to Manning’s book on Martin Bormann:
Many of the activities and even verbatim quotes that are attributed to Martin Bormann are in fact those of Heinrich Himmler, or are on record as being so. Particularly those regarding the Maison Rouge meeting in Strasbourg, everything else correlates, but where it says Bormann it was in fact Himmler.


That’s a fascinating observation you’ve made. It appears now not only that we have conflicting records, but that this promises to be a fruitful discussion … as we both have to figure this one out, together. I’m going to rely on you as an expert in this …and when you and I have learned all we can, then, perhaps it will possible to appeal to a higher authority to help shed light. As for record keeping, by the end of this investigation, it may be that you will become a recognized authority on these conflicting records. However, please read the whole book and weigh what you learn in the book that’s new and impresses you, in order to put everything in context.

Here’s more info on Manning. It might do well to read the whole description rather than just the excerpted part. You’ll notice in the excerpt that Manning was allowed access to OSS Secret Files. As Dulles as I recall was a senior official in OSS (as well as later head of CIA, and also a traitor and triple agent representing as an attorney Schroder bank and the Bank-of-England/Fed private shareholders in their war against the people of America, Germany, Russia, Japan, Italy, France and more …and, Dulles was a Bill Donovan protégé …it may be that Manning in the preface is thanking Dulles for allowing him access to the OSS files. That might be like thanking George H.W. Bush for his hospitality, were you to be allowed access to CIA records under his control. Again, it’s essential to cross-reference against The Secret War Against The Jews by Loftus, just use the index. Please let me know when you have finished reading the book, if you do or do not agree with Manning’s investigation of Bormann, Odessa, Nazi flight capital, and so on. Again, I’m not an expert, I’m a writer and editor, and simply tabulate what I learn from the research of other experts …such as yourself. You perhaps have a photographic memory, and so does Dave Emory, who as I recall from 20 years ago commented on the reference to Dulles as well. As for the conflicting info, I hope you keep a highlighted record of specific references. As for ‘the record’, accounts of what’s happening or who says what – as you know -- particularly when published, may or may not reflect what’s really going on. I’m not an expert on Himmler. Maybe I better do a little research on him and see what I come up with.

Please read the info in this post.
www.spitfirelist.com...
From Dave Emory’s description:
The seminal work on the Bormann Organization was done by the late Paul Manning, who published a book which sourced captured Third Reich documents, the files of the OSS (America’s World War II civilian intelligence agency and predecessor of the CIA), FBI files and British Intelligence sources. Most importantly, Manning accesses Treasury Department files from “Operation Safehaven” (the code-name for the US intelligence operation designed to interdict the Bormann flight capital program). Supplementing the documentation was the field research that Paul Manning conducted using the journalistic contacts developed as a war correspondent.


Well, if Bormann was in control of post-war Nazi activities, I’ll have to see what Himmler’s roles were, if any, on the assassination attempts on Hitler, and the purging of the Nazi party by Hitler (maybe you know about that and can tell me … or, maybe I can respond to that at the end of this post).

Also, please take a look at this, if you’d be so kind to read the whole reference, not just the excerpt quoted below as an external source:
FTR-145 spitfirelist.com... Paul's Correspondence with Other Journalists 3/21/99
According to Dave Emory’s reading of Manning:
Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile (Hardcover, Lyle Stuart 1981.) Anticipating the defeat of the Third Reich, Reichsleiter Martin Bormann set up 750 corporations in neutral countries, primed as vehicles to receive the liquid wealth of Germany. This capital flight was effectively realized. An organizational genius and the real power behind Hitler, Bormann successfully fled Europe for South America and administered a "Reich in Exile" in the years since the war. With the SS as an enforcement arm, former Gestapo chief General Heinrich Mueller as security director, the 750 corporations as a base of economic power and the willing silence and cooperation of the Western Allies, Bormann guided his Organization to a position of consummate power.

From the same source:
Program highlights include: interest in the rites to Manning's book as a possible motion picture or theatrical production; CBS news' partial sponsorship of Manning's research on the Bormann story; the role of the Bormann Organization in the so-called "Economic Miracle;" the post-war recovery of the West German economy; acknowledgement by Simon Weisenthal's top investigator that General Heinrich Mueller commanded the best intelligence organization in the world from his position as director of security for the Organization; Heinrich Mueller's role in setting up Mohammer Khadafy's secret service; Mueller's skillful discreditation of author Ladislas Farago (author of Aftermath); Manning's devastating rebuttal of criticism directed at his book by an L.A. Times reviewer and his unsuccessful attempts to obtain an interview with Bormann himself, despite sustained communication with both Mueller and Bormann.



reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 07:18 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist


My response to KilgoreTrout (2-of-5)

///Sources the following) info include: Mullin's Secrets of the Federal Reserve -- and, www.fdrs.org...
Loftus Secret War Against The Jews///

Here’s reference to an interview with Peter Manning, the author’s son.
FTR-125 Interview with Peter Manning 12/98
spitfirelist.com...
Let me excerpt a bit of the description, which is a summary of the college broadcast:
Mr. Emory believes that the Bormann Organization will prove to be the decisive element in human affairs world wide. In the interview, Peter Manning echoes Mr. Emory’s analysis of the political and historical importance of the Bormann Organization. Peter endorses Emory’s stated view that the Third Reich is as real in the late 1990’s as it was during World War II, that it will prove triumphant (barring decisive intervention) and that whenever one sees a major German corporation, one sees the Third Reich. Of particular interest is Peter’s moving account of the troubles his father and the family experienced as a result of his father’s work on the book. In addition to surveillance and harassment, the family experienced economic hardship as a result of the deliberate eclipsing of the book by elements hostile to its message. Jerry Manning, Peter’s brother, was murdered and Paul Manning believed the killing was in retaliation for the publishing of the book. The head of Lyle Stuart had his legs broken the week the book was released and Paul believed that also was punitive action by the Bormann group.


As you know, researching all this takes a lifetime, and when two people are involved, two lifetimes. Let’s see where this takes us …however, I’d like you to consider reading the whole book, and also getting The Secret War Against The Jews by Loftus , and utilizing the extensive index.
Now, let me take a moment and research Himmler and see if I have anything applicable. Here’s a quote out of my book (it appears in my book I reference as source material Curt Riess’ The Nazis Go Underground and Sayers & Kahn The Great Conspiracy, The Secret War Against Soviet Russia – I recall six or so years ago not remembering which book I learned that from …sorry), which doesn’t appear helpful at all
www.americanciviliancounter-terroristmanual.4t.com
Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Ernst Kalterbrunner met around a conference table. Ernst Kalterbrunner was Chief of Sicherheitdienst Security Service Special Operations Division of SS. Hitler, Himmler, and Kalterbrunner discussed options ...agreed poison gas should be used ... the fastest and best way to kill large numbers of people.

This doesn’t appear to be helpful either from the same source:
Reinhard continued his story. “Dec. 1943, I reached the same conclusion as Bormann, Schacht, Skorzeny, and Himmler. Germany was losing the war. There was nothing we could do to stop it. We discussed coming defeat. I told close friends, I considered the war was lost. We began thinking of the future, to think ahead, plan for the coming catastrophe. There would be a place for Germany ...in a Europe re-arming for defense, against Communism.


Nor, is this helpful, “I” refers to Gehlen speaking in the historical novel:
After Admiral Wilhelm Canaris was purged, SS absorbed his Abwehr intelligence service. I became Nazi Germany’s top intelligence officer.


Nor this from the same source (but soon I’ll have here all I know about Himmler)”
June 1943, Gestapo Chief Heinrich Himmler, and Major General of SS Police Katzmann, issued orders to dig up and burn corpses of civilians and war prisoners tortured to death or machine-gunned near Lvov.

Here, same source, I’m quoting myself again
Leaders of the postwar underground Nazi Officers Corps were officers, and non-commissioned officers of SS regiments, picked to be the inner guard of German Military Supreme Command. Since June 1934, with the purge in the Nazi Party of those officers loyal to Roehm, ordinary Nazi Party members were excluded from joining SS. SS was only for fanatical Nazi Party members. Chief of Schutzstaffel Protective Echelon and Plenipotentiary General of Third Reich Heinrich Himmler reorganized SS into a Nazi military elite. The uniform of the SS was re-cut, to look like Kaiser cavalry elite guard, the Death’s Head Hussars. Senior SS officers were recruited from General Staff ruling families ...so, German industrialists, financiers, military men and Junkers ...became SS officers.


This passage from my book (same source) appears based on Eustace Mullins Secrets of the Federal Reserve, so I think you may have that to read as well as The Secret War Against the Jews, and the Manning book on Bormann … to help answer your question:
Allen became a director of J. Henry Schroder Co. Allen would become Wartime Chief of Office of Strategic Services intelligence operations, in Bern Switzerland … Nazi Baron Kurt von Schroder acted as the conduit for IT&T money funneled to Heinrich Himmler’s SS organization in 1944, while World War II was in progress, and United States was at war with Germany.


So, let me ask you a question you can perhaps help me to understand. Since Manning basically revealed the existence of Odessa (the smuggling of Nazi & SS & German military personnel and war booty) out of post-war Europe to safehavens … the question being...

…was there a conflict between Himmler and Bormann as to who should be running the post-war Nazi effort in South America, the U.S. (under Gehlen’s province) and the rest of the world?

[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 07:20 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist


My response to KilgoreTrout (3-of-5)
///Sources for the following) info include: Mullin's Secrets of the Federal Reserve www.fdrs.org... <> Loftus Secret War Against The Jews [/url] ///

AHA! I found the answer to my own question, in my own book (I’m using a search & find function on “Himmler” same source:
Jan. 24 1943, in Casablanca Roosevelt and Churchill demand Germany surrender and Europe be de-Nazified. General Staff ruling families split in two factions …one led by Heinrich Himmler …the other, by Martin Bormann.
Heinrich Himmler was Chief of Schutzstaffel SS, the core of the Nazi party ...the ‘Black Shirts’, that became Hitler’s bodyguard in the late 1920’s. Schutzstaffel SS was the most powerful Nazi political institution. Himmler was loyal to Hitler.
July 20 1944, a military coup on Hitler’s life failed. Hitler was wounded, but not killed. In retaliation, SS Leader Heinrich Himmler seized control, arrested seven thousand troops, executing 5,000. Himmler and his SS became the remaining organ of the Nazi Party.


There you go, we’re back to your original observation, and quotes by jockeying sources, one says “Himmler said it” the other says “Bormann said it”.
Now, was Himmler or Bormann supported by the Duke of Windsor, the Queen’s relative in Britain … by both of them, and, by both the Duke and Queen. What we may come down to is conflicting intelligences services and conflicting disinformation campaigns … would I expect less? …would you?

My book, again: Deputy Fuehrer and Head of the Nazi Party Martin Bormann was Hitler’s close friend …and held superior rank to Himmler. Bormann was Hitler’s link to the industrial and financial cartels running the Nazi economy. Bormann was a close friend to Hermann Schmitz. Hermann Schmitz was Chief Executive of I.G. Farben. I. G. Farben was Nazi Germany’s wealthiest industrial power.

My book, again:
Himmler’s agent contacting western representatives, Karl Langbehn, felt uneasy belonging to Himmler’s strong wing in the Nazi party that wanted to propose Himmler’s version of a Christian West plan peace settlement with Britain. For sympathy and help in Switzerland, Langbehn went to Gero. Langbehn’s approaches to Gaevernitz interested SD Amt VI International Affairs Chief Walter Schellenberg, who recruited informers from finance and industry. Schellenberg carefully watched Langbehn’s attempts to ‘turn’ Gero von Gaevernitz. And, so did Dulles. Gero intended to profit from the war as best he could. Allen Dulles knew Gero Gaevernitz was a triple agent, working for British and German interests, as well as for the United States’ Wild Bill Donovan. When World War II began, Gero worked with U.S. Military Attache in Bern, Brigadier General Barnwell Legge.
Brigadier General Legge sent a letter to Allen Dulles. ‘Gaevernitz has rendered most valuable service, by gaining contact with prominent German industrialists and business men who visited Switzerland. German Counsel at Geneva is Dr. Wolfgang Krauel. Dr. Krauel has a list of former Canaris men in Switzerland ...including Hans-Bernd Gisevius, Max von Engelbrechten, and Graf Auersperg von der Muhle. Canaris sent these men to Switzerland to make contact with the Americans. Canaris ordered them to report to Gero von Gaevernitz. Canaris is worried about the fall of the Reich. He wants them to work together on the Christian West Plan to unite the U.S. and Nazi Germany together against Soviet Russia.

Years later, an intimate of Canaris cabled congratulations to Allen Dulles on his new job as CIA director. ‘I have known since 1942, how highly Canaris esteemed you. Even at that time, Canaris ordered me to align myself with you ...as soon as possible. I am in touch with one of your most capable co-workers, through a very clever banker. I was able to obtain from your staff, without any difficulty, information very important for us. I would prefer to say nothing more about this now,’ the cable said.

I need to paraphrase myself (same source):
SD Amt VI International Affairs Chief Schellenberg carefully watched attempts to turn Gero. Which faction of the Nazis was Gaevernitz loyal to? …to Canaris? …to Himmler? …was he loyal to the British? …which faction? …to the U.S.? …which ruling families? Dulles didn’t care. Neither did Gaevernitz. Gaevernitz, like Dulles, wanted to promote their own financial portfolios above all political considerations -- the point of war, in the first place. Gero sized up Hermann Schmitz. “Things are going well. Transmare (corp) gave Gero a cover and commercial references. <> Allen Dulles interacted w/ Hans-Bernd Gisevius. There are several peace initiatives coming at me ... to present to the U.S. ... from opposing Nazi groups …some from Abwehr activists …some from pessimistic SS officers, he said. Hans-Bernd Gisevius agreed. Hans was Sonderfuehrer in the SS ...a reactionary, tied financially to the Lutheran Synod, instrumental in recruiting a powerful faction of the Nazi Party in 1931-1933. Gisevius was a Gestapo lawyer, when Admiral Canaris appointed him Zurich Vice-Consul. Canaris made Hans, his representative to Madam Halina Szymanska, a Polish intelligence ‘cut-out’. Canaris’ military intelligence used Szymanska to leak information to Van Den Heuvel, and the American Special Intelligence Service.


[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 07:23 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist

My response to KilgoreTrout (4-of-5)

///Sources for following info include: Mullin's Secrets of the Federal Reserve www.fdrs.org...<>Loftus Secret War Against The Jews www.samizdat.com... ///

The following is my writing, from own historical novel www.americanciviliancounter-terroristmanual.4t.com, which I own copyright to, I am quoting and/or paraphrasing me and giving me permission to (to help end this 5-part reply).

I'll quote me from my book (see above) & credit the (above) sources.

Dulles met often with Hans in Hans’ drawing room at 23 Herrengasse. Dulles represented himself ...as President Roosevelt’s personal representative. Hans agreed, he’d keep Dulles informed on plots against Hitler’s life. Dulles said, the U.S. and Germany would benefit when he briefed Washington on Canaris’ version of the Christian West concept Hans had already explained to Dulles. Gisevius said, he'd let security expert Rudolph Diels know, that Rudolph would fill-in Hjalmar Schacht. Schacht will fill in Admiral Canaris.


Now, I'll paraphrase me:
Dulles, Prince Max von Hohenlohe agreed. Within SS, SD managed subversion. SD’s Amt VI International Affairs Chief, Walter Schellenberg, was an SS foreign minister. In 1942, SD Chief Walter Schellenberg told Himmler, he would put out feelers to launch Himmler’s version of the Christian West plan to unite the U.S. and Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union. Schellenberg needed cut-out agents, walk-ins. Schellenberg contacted Abram Stevens Hewitt in Stockholm, who contacted Theodore Morde, a Reader’s Digest correspondent in Ankara … in discussions, Prince Max Egon zu Hohenlohe-Langenburg’s name emerged. Allen Dulles used the code name, ‘Mr. Bull’. Prince Max Egon Hohenlohe used the code name, ‘Mr. Pauls’.

Prince Max was a jet-setter, a ruling family member for the Sudatenland. Prince Max was an arms salesman for the Schkode arms works. Schellenberg got him the job. Prince Max married into the Hapsburg dynasty, traveled on a Lichtenstein passport. When SD Commander Reinhard Heidrich was assassinated in May 1942, SD Chief Schellenberg emerged in a position of greater power. Schellenberg was Max Hohenlohe’s handler.

Quote me & reference my book &reference above sources & paraphrase me:
Early 1943, Dulles and Hohenlohe spoke frequently. In addition to representing Schroder’s American banking interests, Allen Dulles and John Foster Dulles represented Insgilde Bank of Stockholm, owned by the Wallenbergs.


In 1940, Marcus Wallenberg came to New York, to safeguard American-held certificates of Robert Bosch Co.
Allen Dulles told Marcus, you need to publicize your contacts and my contacts with resistance groups that tried to remove Hitler from power in the putsch of July 20. That it might be well to get this out in the open.

Allen Dulles said, Robert Bosch’s nephew is a director inside I. G. Farben leadership. Robert Bosch Co. was used by Karl Goerdeler, one of the plotters against Hitler, as a cover for activities while organizing German coup attempts against Hitler.

Cite myself, my book, sources at top of page:
In Bern, Allen Dulles did legal work for J. Henry Schroder bank …was close to Thomas McKittrick, one of his clients. McKittrick was President of Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland ...founded by Nazi interests, under the guidance of Hjalmar Schacht who co-founded BIS to dissolve war reparations Germany owed from World War I. Now, at the close of World War II, BIS was a clearinghouse to launder Third Reich booty into legitimate front businesses around the world.


Will paraphrase me for rest of page:
Washington and London distrusted various Christian West plans, that various Nazi factions presented through Allen Dulles. Dulles spoke of coup d’états …planned against Hitler by Nazis who weren’t racists like Hitler was …Nazis against genocide …Nazis who wanted to collaborate with British and Americans to hold the Eastern Front against Soviet Union communists. Dulles’ ruling family backers and major Fed shareholders in New York and Washington told him, it wasn’t likely that a large enough group of Nazi insurgents existed ... to take power from Hitler.

Schellenberg sent Max Hohenlohe with a series of peace proposals to see British Ambassador Sir Samuel Hoare and American Embassy Counselor William Walton Butterworth, a friend of George Keenan since Princeton …and with Vatican sympathizers …and with Fritz Klein, a friend of both Dulles brothers.
<>
Feb. 1943, American negotiators in Lisbon were stationed with George Keenan, Colonel Solborg, and Allen Dulles. Exactly what was agreed upon …was classified. What leaked out? ...was Dulles was angry with old fashioned politicians and prejudiced Jews …Dulles wanted Jews sent to Africa …Dulles wanted German bishops in American to argue for Germany’s cause …Dulles praised American Catholics, who forced Jewish-American newspapers to stop criticizing General Franco’s dictatorship in Spain …Dulles wanted a peace that ‘avoided the excesses of Versailles’, and let Germany retain some of its conquered territories in Austria and Czechoslovakia …Dulles wanted Washington to stop thinking in terms of winners and losers, victors and vanquished …to start thinking in terms of world order, and to start making progress in stopping the Soviet Union from ruling the world.

Slowly, Hohenlohe became a spokesman for SS elements within the German government …wanting to get rid of ‘extremist’ Nazis.

Allen Dulles argued, the importance of Prussia, and an inwardly-unbalanced and inferiority-complex ridden Prussian militarism must be reduced. A Federal Greater Germany retaining Austrian and Czechoslovakian territories will form a cordon sanitaire against Bolshevism and pan-Slavism, stop the eastward enlargement of Poland, and preserve a strong Hungary.

Dulles said, Federal Greater Germany will be like the U.S., with a Danube confederation to insure orderly progress in central and eastern Europe against the Soviet Union.

Summer 1943, in Santender Spain Abwehr Officer F. Eustis von Einem said he sat in on meeting where Wild Bill Donovan agreed to Canaris’ Christian West version terms.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]

[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]



reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 07:31 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by counterterrorist

My response to KilgoreTrout (5-of-5)

Now, let me see if I can locate the source material for the above passage.
Again, it might be Eustace Mullins’ Secrets of the Federal Reserve; -- or—Loftus’ The Secret War Against the Jews; -- or – doubtfully (I can’t remember 20 years back) – Riess’ The Nazis Go Underground. Most likely, I combined all the information in order to write the historical novel – which I’m in the process of abridging the unabridged version into an abridged version and which I should have been doing the last 3-4 days, but instead have been on ATS almost around the clock.

I do think Mr. & Mrs. God have a hand in all this … because, I believe some of this info may or may not dovetail with what you already know of Himmler …I know very little of Bormann. I’ve not had a chance to read Manning’s book. What I did do, was listen to experts on the subject discuss it, such as Dave Emory, at great length on radio broadcasts from college stations.

I'm fairly sure some of the sources for this info are from:

Mullin's Secrets of the Federal Reserve
www.fdrs.org...

Loftus Secret War Against The Jews reviewed by Deane Rink, writer, producer, and project director ... has worked for PBS, National Geographic, the American Museum of Natural History, Hearst Entertainment, and Carl Sagan.
www.samizdat.com...
One of its authors, John Loftus, was a former prosecutor with the U.S. Justice Department's Nazi-hunting unit, and was granted access to classified CIA and NATO archives. He probably developed the big picture, his central thesis, from his prodecutorial days, and went about filling it in and updating it by interviewing a bevy of old spooks, retired spies from the CIA, MI6, KGB, Mossad, and the French and German intelligence agencies, among others. Small, independently-verifiable, portions of this larger story have already appeared on CBS News's 60 Minutes and ABC's Prime Time, but this is the first place of which I am aware where a consistent narrative carries through from the discovery of Middle Eastern oil deposits and the rise of Nazism in the 1920s and 1930s to the Intifada and the Persian Gulf War in the 1980s and 1990s. If a mere ten per cent of what this book alleges is true, Twentieth Century history as written by the victors is a shameful distortion, and my hunch is that a lot more than ten per cent of this book is accurate.


[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 19-4-2008 @ 08:25 PM by counterterrorist
reply to post by Makoto


Hi. I've only been onsite for about three weeks. And I've only seen two occurances. The reason I see them, is because so many ATS people refute them, that they often appear in places that measure traffic, like www.abovetopsecret.com... for example, in the "Most active recent topics" column, or the "Top flagged recent topics (past 7 days), or even where my post will be another dasy (since the 7th day is up tomorrow) www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm sorry you logged off 5 minutes ago, I was so busy editing and editing and fixing the links on a long reply that kept me from seeing this until about the exact moment you logged off. If you come back on before midnight, take a look where I suggested, and see if you can see any signs or evidence of holocaust denial.

Detect such attitudes, since holocaust denial is originally an intelligence agency form of propaganda used to distract people from knowing so much genocide went on, and is currently going on ... detecting such attitudes is like being on the alert for a mosquito or fly or rattlesnake or thug at night time in the early A.M. walking through a big city ...what I'm trying to say is that over time, the most subtle manuervering of a holocaust denier is like someone blowing a trumpet in your ear.

That's why the Nazi war criminals were found, because people sniffed them out.



[edit on 19-4-2008 by counterterrorist]


reply posted on 20-4-2008 @ 03:04 AM by KilgoreTrout
Originally posted by counterterrorist

I'm afraid your very brilliant observation expressed in a few words has illicited a rather lengthy response from me, which may or may not address your issue, but will probably address my issues ... hopefully, it will be of use to both of us.



I am sorry that I was so brief, I was quite taken aback, I have read another three accounts of the same meeting and in both cases it was Himmler's who was organising and controlling the meeting, as well as using the words attributed to Bormann. I found that very strange, I need to check those sources (Hugh Thomas, SS1: The unlikely death of Heinrich Himmler, Charles Whiting, Hitler's Secret War and Martin Allen, Warlord (about Himmler's peace negotiations with the allies).

This thread may interest you

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm a bit pressed for time but I will reply to your response to me in full, I think we can clarify some points. I do think it is worthwhile to strip away any 'excess baggage'.

As I can recall the sources cited the US Intelligence copy of the 'Red House Report' and that the British copy of the report was still classified. It could though be the other way round. Which is what I really need to check. I do not think that Bormann was responsible for channelling out the Nazi money, it does not fit any of the evidence on Bormann. That is not to say that I do not think it is possible that he survived the war, there is no conclusive evidence either way. I will reply to your post point by point. I am no expert, my view is by no means conclusive, I am just quite well read on the subject. I think it is important to consider the British side of things, which I will try and expand upon. Plus the workings of the SS and Nazi party.

I will try to post a response in full later today...(propably no earlier that 9pm GMT).
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