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Author Puts Controversial View on Jesus

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posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 09:49 AM
Gospel of Thomas:

"If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you."

Just thought about throwing this in there. If this is true, and God is within and all around us, that means we are the same as God.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 10:51 AM
reply to post by TheBandit795

And that is my believes also and has been through all my life.

Sad that you tell that to a fundamentalist Christian and they will tell you back that you need Jesus for salvation.

Then another quote gets forgotten in the pursue of servitude and blind absolute worshiping.

The bible also tells that Jesus died for all our sin.

So why people are still waiting to be save again? even to the point to bring the modern day version believe of a supposed rapture, because that interpretation do not support religious control and dependency.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by marg6043]

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 12:33 PM
reply to post by Snoopy64

I believe the reasons behind this is spiritual. The nuts really seem to come out of the woodwork when it comes to religious conspiracies and it does seem Christianity in particular is twisted every which way. As I've said before, attacking the 'Historical Jesus' is the easiest way to trivialize Christianity. If the founder never existed, there is no reason to believe.

reply to post by biggie smalls

That is true. Technically 'Jesus' never existed. 'Jesus' is the Anglicized version of the name. But it seems to me that is a semantics game. We can take it as a 'translation.' We wouldn't say Mary never existed because technically her name was Miriam in Hebrew. The line from Shakespeare about roses and names come to mind.

reply to post by Karlhungis

hehehe Karl! We were just talking about this in another thread but got our butts jumped for explaining it. Yes, Jesus was associating himself with the OT name of God I Am. This was to show He was 'from everlasting to everlasting' and was greater than the founder Abraham to show the Jews that Abraham wasn't their 'head' but that Jesus was. Yes, it does seem like it goes around the bush to make a point but it comes down to textual exegesis.

Back to what I was saying before: We talked about this in another thread and even shared some of our pre-Christian experiences with reading the Bible. Before our conversion the Bible was 'just words' but after receiving the Holy Spirit the pages really do become open. Unbelievers may scoff at that but that is precisely what the Bible says will happen: The books will be opened to a deeper understanding. Everyone can understand John 3:16. Then, once we take the leap it's a spiritual awakening.

reply to post by niteboy82

LMAO @ Your new avatar! You are too much, Shoe Boy!

What gets to me personally is the CONSTANT rewriting and repackaging of history when it comes to religion. Although Jesus/Christianity is not the only victim (I've seen it happen with dozens of religions), Christianity does seem to be the one under the most scrutiny. And I will be one of those who admit to getting 'angry' about it. Simply because I really hate anyone who intentionally tries to mislead. Not all scholars do this but some of the books I read attacking various religions are so downright false with information taken on a whim that lying is the only word that comes to mind. But my abhorrence of such a thing is not limited to Christianity or religion- I get irritated at anyone on any topic who puts forth false or dubious information. One of my pet peeves.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 02:37 PM
Lol @ history . More like mythstery .. How is this even news?

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 03:20 PM

You are probably right. How can something be news when the distortion of religions and religious figures have been occurring for millineums?? This is nothing more than another attempt. What if this was a thread about a UFO sighting or breaking information on JFK?? Would you still claim this is not news because UFO sightings have been occurring for centuries or the JFK assasination occurred last century?? Probably not.

HAHAHA. He said mythstery. Get some new material if you are going to troll.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 03:24 PM
reply to post by Snoopy64

I also didn't start a thread when i found out the last star wars movie wasn't exactly going to match the book .
Sorry i fail to see "the news" in this . Too bad your last post made so many assumptions ...
Do you feel like you know me?
You must .. But you dont...

Conspiracy-desire-will-agenda --- what ever you want to call it --- YES. Christianity-Islam-Buddhism-Hinduism-Taosim-Judaism-Deism. Religion-Spirituality-Theism in general. Militant Fundamental Atheists want it ALL gone. They want to bend EVERYONE to their way of thinking and theirs alone all while shoving their beliefs down our throats. MFA's want THEIR world view impossed on the world and use different tactics to further their AGENDA.

Ha i found your agenda here.. I guess i see why you would post this now . Everyone is out to get you ..

[edit on 14-4-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 03:49 PM

Originally posted by niteboy82
I never understand the anger some people have on subjects like this.

If people are being brought to Yeshua, and that is what Christians are so hip on, why would they be angered at the possibility of bringing more people into the fold? I don't see that as the foundation for the destruction of faith, I see it as a stabilizer to bring more people to faith.

Agreed, but one of the major problems IMO is that each sect only wants people brought into their fold.

Chrisianity has become so split into different groups and factions, all concerned only with themselves, that it has become something of an internal strugle within the religion to "convert" new members.

It's no longer about religion, it's about the politics of religion as each faction moves farther apart from the others in an attempt to further their own agenda's.

[edit on 14/4/2008 by budski]

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 03:53 PM

Star Wars has no conspiracy angle relating to ATS topics and forums. A news article relating to a religious conspiracy is relevant.

"Everyone is out to get you." Me?? Hardly. My "agenda" in this thread --- if you even want to call it that --- is to be an advocate of theists and spiritualists --- ALL theists and spiritualists --- and their right to believe as they wish without reprisal by FMA's. People's religion-faith-spirituality is their business and no one else's. Critical investigation of religious history --- A.O.K. Critical propaganda and spin doctoring --- unacceptable.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Snoopy64

And that makes sense to you. In order for me to read the bible, I would need someone to explain every line to me like you just did. Then I am not reading the bible, I am being taught someone elses interpretation of the bible. I feel as if I have biblical-dyslexia (I should trademark that).

Thank you for the explanation. It makes sense, but it just seems like the most non-sensical way of saying it.

No, it is sort of a play on words. You would arrive at the same conclusion, with a little study, or if someone pointed you in the right direction.

Exodus 3:13-14 (King James Version)

13And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

So, basically God is telling Moses "Hey, when they ask you who sent you, tell them 'I AM' sent you".

Now, look as Jesus' words, and the Sanhedrin's reactions.

Mark 14:61-64 (King James Version)
61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

63Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?

64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

The Sanhedrin recognized that when he said "I am", he was claiming the same name as the name that Moses was to say had sent him. In other words, with those two words, he claimed to be God incarnate. THAT'S what they sentenced him to death for. Not because he claimed to be (and indeed, IS) the messiah, but that he claimed to be GOD HIMSELF. There was another jewish guy a few years after Jesus who claimed to be the messiah, but they didn't put HIM to death. So, you see, it wasn't the claim to be the messiah that they put him to death for, it was for him saying that he was (and indeed, IS) God in human flesh.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 04:50 PM
reply to post by sir_chancealot

You know I always regarded that quote differently but that is just my interpretation.

Jesus was as his father been human he accepted that he was a son of his God, just like any men he saw just as equal, sons of the God that he followed.

Jesus never claimed in the bible that he was divine himself, that claim came from others.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 05:41 PM
reply to post by Snoopy64

Hey sorry for being an ass.. Look at your posts tho . There hard to read (visually) and seems like your pushing an agenda . That (As an atheist/agnostic)
Seems absurd to me . Its not my place tho to comment since i have nothing to offer thats constructive. Once again . Sorry about belittling your work/interest .

[edit on 14-4-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 05:54 PM
|---NOT AN ASS---|

You do not come across as an ass. You come across as validly opinionated and that is welcome in any thread of mine Brother.
Keep it up. If we all agreed and spoke with sugar-coated words this world would be a boring place to be.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 06:00 PM
reply to post by Snoopy64

Cool . I come across very anti-religion . But in all reality its not the case. I just don't agree with the way it's used at times. I guess that gets to me . And i say stupid stuff / rial you guys up. Childish i know . But ain't we all at times

Thanks for the kind reply . I'll try and use more tact with my replies lol

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 06:06 PM

We can agree on that. I am not religious or a fan of religion but I do respect the right of others to be religious. That is as long as they are not looney tunes and infringe upon my right to be spiritual.

Do not look at your style as riling but look on your style as provoking thought. Cheers.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 10:28 PM
The theories of Quantum Consciousness seem to fall pretty close to this view of the truth of reality.

This is my view...
Thoughts are complex combinations of single ideas. Single ideas represent material particles. Particles are points of space where two or more waves of energy collide and create a new barrier. We assimilate these frequency barriers as evolution.
Einstein said that space/time is unique to each individual particle point of energy, each point representing one single idea. I am one single idea, I have many ideas that make me up, but I am one resonating point in space. We all live in the same multi-verse not the same universe, my universe is mine alone. Therefore, the ultimate meaning and shaping of my universe within the greater multi-verse is unique to me only.

posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 10:49 PM

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Gospel of Thomas:

"If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you."

Just thought about throwing this in there. If this is true, and God is within and all around us, that means we are the same as God.

This will be confusing but I will try to explain what I saw

I meditated on this very issue = Kingdom of God is within me.

I saw inside myself but what I saw was in me was also outside of me. What I saw from the inside was slightly different on the outside but it was the same.

Within me, I was made up of four people. One man, one woman. Each had a dual counterpart so equal four parts of myself. Because each part made up who I was/I am.

Now on the outside, there were four beasts sitting around me. One was a lion, one was an eagle, one was an ox and the other was a hawk. Each part of myself had a corresponding 'beast'.

From the outside, I could see I was sitting in the centre of them but when I looked, I was looking through the eyes of the male me. The female me was invisible because the male was sitting there.. maybe the male me is God?

I am still trying to work it out especially as I was shown something went wrong with the Kingdom of God inside of me. I saw that one of my male selves was missing, one had killed the other, so when I look inside of me, I saw that there was a ghost there.

now this is even stranger, in the meditation God asked me to return the ghost "unto him", so I did.

When I returned the ghost to God, his Ghost, I then saw the four parts of me were complete and the four beasts were where they should be.

Now the ghost has gone and the beasts are all there. Once the Kingdom was completed or restored, I now see that I am a vessel for the Holy Spirit.

And now, that is all I am. Strange but there is something to this. Just wish I could figure it out.


posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 12:07 AM
Lets not forget this part as well.

Psalm 82:

6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7: But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8: Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

The ancient isrealites accepted other "gods" existence, (ie. Demons) They just didn't give him absolute power like their own God, and when Jesus stated, "I am in the Father, and Father in me". He claimed to the jewish priests to be equal to their own absolute "God". Hence why they wanted to seize him.

posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 04:17 AM
reply to post by RedmoonMWC

That would require an apostrophe, to announce the possessive. In this case, it's without, indicating plurality. This speaks volumes, to me at least, of what we are to become when we leave this plane for the next. I'm glad that some are giving this the credit it deserves, as it's one of the less-noticed verses of the entire bible, and I can't begin to wonder why....


posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:24 PM
There is actually a fourth Jesus... the most important one of all...

The 4th Jesus is the one that humans use to sell books & peddle organized religion.

posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:41 PM
reply to post by labrador11

You got that one right, to think that in American the 4th jesus is the most popular and very profitable.

[edit on 15-4-2008 by marg6043]

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