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posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by ImJaded
 


Im Jaded,

I have been musing on your post for a few days while condidering how to respond without hanging out to much laundry...so to speak.

I dont know if I would term it low self esteem per se. I suspect that many women are in fact..very competitive. It is just that this is done in a female oriented manner..not a male manner of competition. For females this means sex/sexuality as a means of power or control. To many women this can be done without alot of physical risk as is done by foolish men. It is also a avenue in which many women assume ..albet incorrectly ...that they have huge lots or acerage of control over men...they can easily default through without risk and without alot of work.


As to hanging out the laundry part..let me say that I enjoy the female form as much as any man out here. I simply enjoy it in a private setting...not a pubic spectacle. I dont enjoy drunken women...either in public or private. Nor do I like being around drunken men. They too are disgusting to me. Sorry ..but I have babysitted to many ...who cannot handle their drink. I am not looking for a career in this. Those days are long over.

I can apprreciate a womans skills in this arena...however I like women who have an abundance of other skills than merely taking off their clothes. I know to many women for whom taking off their clothes is their main skill in life and many of these women think this is the core ingredient/skill to gain access to male skills and talents for which they have no ambition to learn. Control the man and you... by default ...can have it easier and with less risk. This is a standard dogma among many women out here...and it works well among men who cannot think further than sports and the swimsuit edition. It is not difficult to find women like this who can come over and take off thier clothes..they are all over the place.
This is mainly the fault of ignorant males..not the females.

While I can appreciate a woman who can take off her clothes at the correct time and place....I require much more in the skills and abilities line up from a woman in whom I intend to invest alot of time and my hard earned moneys. Moneys often earned at great risk.
I am not intrested in women who are what I call high maintenance or women whom use sex and sexuality to attempt to substitute their thinking and values for mine with nothing of good or decent offer in return. I know exactly how to handle this type.

Well Im Jaded ..that is about as much laundry as I care to hang out in public. It will have to suffice. Hope you understand the point.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 25-4-2008 by orangetom1999]




posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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Thanks for the Input, orangetom...

Someone who brought up the idea, that the men of this country are being Feminized... i can totaly see that.


This is evident, the other day i was hanging out with some guys, and one of them asked me if we could stop by the Dorms, so he could show this other Guy his shoe collection...

Yes that is right, not only does this GUY have a Shoe collection, ANOTHER GUY wants to see it...

No wonder the girls have given up on men...


The Boys of this country are being Sisiyfied... I grew up in many diffrent places, and no where is more f-d up then right here in NorCal... Forget the obvois like the California school system banning the words "Mom" and "Dad"... but other things, like discurageing our boys from defending themselfs... its just not a good thing.

SO our schools are turning our Boys into whimps, not having the Balls to stand up for ones self, or for anything they belive in.

People are become wild animals, its disgusting... some of the things i have seen... most people have no common decency anymore... people just piss/crap everywhere, Screw anything that moves, and steals everything they can pick up... All while putting whatever new drug into thier systems...

A sane Man can lose his mind in these dreaded times.



Everything on the TV is sexual... I think 70%+ of ads have a sexual theme to them... even mundane things like Car commericals... "When you turn your car on... does it return the favor..." Just maddness... This is why i don't watch TV that much, outside of a Laker Game, or Football... or just at friends houses...


All i want to find is a Woman... is that this hard... I AM MAN... hold on let me open a _..

I AM MAN!

I don't want to hear that three-somes are your hobby!
I don't want to see a girl walking around in a tee-shirt saying 'Do Me'
I don't want to see two women grinding/groping/making out
I don't want to have sex the first time i meet you
I NEVER want to have ANYTHING GOING IN MY ASS.
And i dont want to put anything in yours...
I don't think its cool that you were in a three-some
I don't want to hear about your sexual conquests

Im sure there are more things... but i think that is a half-way decent list of things i just don't want to hear about...

I realy don't think that i am a prude... mabye i am just starting to think straight..

When i was younger, all this seemed so fun, and in High school, when 2 girls would kiss at a party... everyone would Yell... me included... now, thru wiser eyes, the same act is not recived the same...

SO sorry for my slightly-off-topic post...

Just needed to be said...



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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There may be another reason why women are behaving like skanks in public that has little to do with the social emasculation so prominent these days. I think Orangetom was onto something when he mentioned high maintenance women defaulting or "playing through".

Since the competition among women has gotten so fierce fighting for what few alpha males remain, it may be that a pack mentality has emerged. Not so much for the goal of ONE woman claiming the prize but to preserve and maintain the IDEA or acceptability of a female's "right" to play through by default. If females band together by public shows of their sexuality they are, in a sense, proclaiming their power over men and the prerogative to keep the status quo; ie: "See us exerting our sexual influence? We (females) all agree that you (males) are our prey. Pay up or we'll ignore you in favor of each other."

If there is any truth in this (highly speculative) hypothesis then the females are basing their game plan on an assumption that can (and probably will) be very dangerous for them. And that is that males will continue to play by the rules and not just TAKE what is being withheld from them. Females forget that they have already changed the rules of the "game" in which they felt they were losing. Could not the other players (males) also change the rules if they felt they were losing?

I think men and women need an entirely new paradigm in which to relate to one another. One based on biological realities, honesty and honor. There are no winners in a gender war.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by TKainZero
 


TKainZero,

I am taking a lunch break from my yard labors and checked out this site while eating my soup and sandwich.

Thanks for your post and opinion. Let me say first...Oooh...Rah!!!!

Thank goodness someone gets it. Was begining to think that at times it is a barren wasteland out here.

Shoe collection eh!!!?? OK...dont get me wrong here..I am not against a man dressing well or snappy so so speak. I just think it takes more to be a man than clothes.
Years ago I worked in the Mens section of a department store. Habo we called it after the word Haberdashery. Here I learned to dress up. Women tend to very much like a well dressed man. However...it goes further than that to a knowlegable woman. Being a man requires much more...much much more. A male who can only dress up and look pretty ...is like a new or different handbag to many women. I suppose this is where the term "boy toy " comes into play. No thanks..not intrested in that. This type of male is to me femminized.
Dont get me wrong here...when I have time and a desire to do so, I dont mind getting dressed up smartlhy and snappily. It is just not who I am.
Most of the time I am a jeans and pocket tee shirt type of guy...like right now...jeans, pocket tee shirt and sweat bandanna. Gotta build up a sweat to take care of this yard..here!!

I am also not against a man being cultured or what I refer to as genteel. A gentleman. I think this is a dying art now days. It has been replaced with alot of self promotion and the fast food lane of thinking/expectations. Such self promotion..to me being the fingerprint of what both you and I term as wild animals...or animanistic type behavior. No thanks..not for me. I suppose this is one reason I have no intrest in going to this place called Hooters. Such obvious techniques to get me to come off my moneys does not appeal to me at all.

I am in the South...the Seabord side of Virginia. There is still to be found here in places a measure of gentility. I fear that with such an abundance of coarse brainwashing as is being done through the media and public education...that this gentility will disappear. It will become endangered. I dread the day as I see more and more young peoples not knowing or understanding the difference. They are becoming like a Xerox copy...of the initial coarsness. Plant them in front of a television, feed and water them, and you get 500 copies of the same coarsness..monkey, see monkey do. No originality or individuality going on. It is pitiful.

What is worse..is that a real woman can see this clearly..like radar navigating through the darkness. It must be a severe let down to them.

I agree with you about the television. I dont watch much of it anymore. The history channel, Discovery and occasionally when I can stomach it ..the news. Si Fi is good on occasion too.
I dont really like to watch much sports at all with the exception of a fishing program. Love to fish and eat fish...fill the freezer etc etc.
What I dont care for in the sports programming format is the sexual appeal of the commercials. To me many of them are of the lowest common denominator. I am not much of a beer drinker. Occasionally I have one but dont make it a career as do some I know.

However to be fair to the ad people..concerning television...some of the commercial appeal..shows more originality than does the standard programming. Sad but true.
There are other reasons for not watching much sports but this will suffice for now.

Sir , I do not know your age but surmise that you have outgrown the usual pubscent thinking and expectations sufficient that you can see clearly the fingerprint of what I am speaking and concerned. You are looking for someone or something more than the sandard issue wildlife of today. You find this fingerprint severly lacking.

I say to you ..Well done Sir. It can be at times a long and lonely road out here among the wildlife......but Well done Sir. Well said.

Whitewave,

Hello again. Good to see your post. I had not thought of conditions in the manner of which you speak. Women competiting for the remaining Alpha Males and the pack mentality. I shall have to consider this more in depth..but I think you may be on to something here yourself. Well said here..well said. I shall have to work on this and keep it in mind.

LOL LOL LOL...Prey...yes..I agree Whitewave..Prey..LOL LOL. I have often said or implied that men are delusional if they think they are the only "Hunter Gatherers" out here. Many are so dumb they havent a clue.
Thank you for a woman's perspective on this.

As to ignoring the male in favor of the other females...I say..bon appetit. Have at it. Not intrested. I know how to handle those too. As I said also before and many times. I am not intrested in drama or drama techinques. Male or female. Lord I hate drama queens. Ive got enought of them at work. Lord spare me Drama Queens of this world.

I agree..with you in your reasoning that this kind of plan can be very dangerous for women. For the very reason you state but also for another reason..one I dont think many women ever think about as their reasoning does not extend this far...due to the built in defaults.

Whitewave..the problem I see is that the females want more power and control over men and more directly. With power and control comes more responsibility..this is the default not considered by women ..because of natural blindness/default. They as a whole ,want power and control without the responsibility...translate that risk. Most women are not talking about risk here...they want more control and authority over men without risk.
I am not talkng about sexual risk..but real working risk daily. I have found that with many woman when you put them in a position of real risk...they would rather go the sexual route..it requires less work and less risk. Translate that less commitment.
In order for women to get more goodies..ie options without risk..the men must take on more and more. How is this going to happen in a generation of femminized males?? Sex and sexuality are a poor substitute for male risk. Even the dumbest male catchs on eventually. She must have more. A very difficult concept in a empty carcass.
I suppose this is why places like Hooters have no appeal to me considering the risks I take for my moneys. I have found that when I start hitting women up with the concept of risk ..most of them back up and back off very quickly. All of them..no...these are the ones I will watch closely for thier real "potential" real intrinsic value.

I agree with you Whitewave ...a new paridigm is in order here. I would not expect such to come from the media and educational system. It must come from individuals like us. Well said Whitewave...well said.

My yard work calls and my lunch is long since devoured. I must get back to my labors.

Thanks to you and TkainZero for your posts,

Orangetom




[edit on 26-4-2008 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 26-4-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


STUPID, dumb males, fixated on Sports Illustrated and Hooters!

Breasts!! Large, full breasts!!! (jealous? of large breasts?)

Smart female Drama Queens, marking out their territory and playing through unaccountable!

Understand...now???

Stupid men fixated on breasts and sex! Smart women!

Thanks (for nothing),
Orangetom

(sorry, "dude", couldn't resist
)



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


STUPID, dumb males, fixated on Sports Illustrated and Hooters!

Breasts!! Large, full breasts!!! (jealous? of large breasts?)

Smart female Drama Queens, marking out their territory and playing through unaccountable!

Understand...now???

Stupid men fixated on breasts and sex! Smart women!

Thanks (for nothing),
Orangetom

(sorry, "dude", couldn't resist
)


LOL LOL..no offense taken. I know plenty of men who fit this bill of lading.

No problems with me here Mrdstbr.
Bon Appetit.

Oh..and one more thing as a personal preference..I am not into large breasted women. No thanks. Breasted...literally and figuratively..yes..large breasted..literally..no!!

Probably hanging out to much laundry here...if so ..my apologies ladies.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 26-4-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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Good Lord Whitewave,

My apologies, I believe I missed or overlooked this portion of your post and only this morning did I catch it when re reading.


but to preserve and maintain the IDEA or acceptability of a female's "right" to play through by default.


an IDEA of acceptability rather than real acceptability of the commitment levels required to be acceptable.

Is this similar or in likeness to the appearance of commitment rather than real commitment??

What you are talking about here Whitewave, is a "Counterfit"!! Good Lord. I must have missed this line last night. Silly me Whitewave.

If this is so it is in fact going to be disasterous. As you appropriately stated....no winners in a gender war.

Thanks again for your post,
Orangetom

[edit on 27-4-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Odd how the process of dating and mating is getting described as a "war"!

Whatever happened to "Make Love, Not War"?



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Odd how the process of dating and mating is getting described as a "war"!

Whatever happened to "Make Love, Not War"?


LOL LOL MRdDstbr...I fell for that one too long ago. It looks good on paper but it is quite cliche..even tacky now days. Dont get me wrong...dreams and expectations..beliefs are ok..It is just that often they are not practical ..even often not reality.
Divorce and seperation statistics pretty much make a mockery of that phrase.

THe reality is more like Lord Actons phrase ..."power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

What Elders taught me for which to look concerning power..is the type of person who has power but does not use it...or uses it very seldom. They are the custodians of power .such that it does not fall into the wrong hands.
Not that they use it themselves or for themselves per se....but they hold it to prevents other from using and abusing it. I suspect that such people are quite rare. I reckon that definition leaves out most government peoples.

Well..some food for thought.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 27-4-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Men and women competing with each other for power is a terrible paradigm, orangetom. I don't care if it's "reality" or not.

Cooperation and synergy is always better than power-plays.



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by MrdDstrbr
 


I agree that cooperation and synergy are always better than power plays between human beings regardless of their respective genders.

I think all people have a biological and psychological need to be loved but not all people are lovable. This creates a problem when the unlovable ones try to meet their needs by counterfeit and deceit (including self deceit). If they have nothing (or not enough) in the way of desirable market value they make do by pretending, manipulating, game playing or what ever they feel will work. You have to have decent building material to build upon a foundation and there are too few people of quality around these days that qualify as "quality" material. I think the behaviors we are witnessing is a result of inferior "building materials" making themselves available to build a society. It's not a pretty site.



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by whitewave
I agree that cooperation and synergy are always better than power plays


And let's not forget sin-ergy!



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


I do agree with what you are saying about women wanting to be equal with or more appropriately "have control" over men w/out doing the hard work. However I see this problem with men too. I know many men who want the old fashioned wife who does ALL of the housework but yet they expect her to have a full-time job outside of the home as well. These equality problems work both ways. men and women need to work equally together.

By the way, I think drama is more of a draw for talk shows than sex is. granted sex and drama seem to go hand in hand, but I still think those talk shows would still have draw without sex as long as they were still dramatic.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


I do agree with what you are saying about women wanting to be equal with or more appropriately "have control" over men w/out doing the hard work. However I see this problem with men too. I know many men who want the old fashioned wife who does ALL of the housework but yet they expect her to have a full-time job outside of the home as well. These equality problems work both ways. men and women need to work equally together.

By the way, I think drama is more of a draw for talk shows than sex is. granted sex and drama seem to go hand in hand, but I still think those talk shows would still have draw without sex as long as they were still dramatic.



I agree here snowflake..there definitely is a problem with the men now days. They are some kind of dumb.

I dont believe in this 50/50 stupidity..its 100/100. Remember also that many men not only work outside the home in full time jobs..but also at home around the house. Often doing both traditionally male and female jobs arond the home. I think to many women here stereotype as if they are actually doing the bulk of both parts. Unless they are single I have a difficult time acceepting this. Many of these women are not complaining about taking on taditonally male tasks with the attendant risks...they are complaining about men not taking on more of the traditionally female tasks. I have seen to much of this in my lifetime.
Part of the problem to me Snowflake..is that today you have a generation of males who have been raised primarily by women..they have adopted womens thinking and values. This meaning it is not their primary role to solve these problems. It is someone elses default setting or responsibility. In otherwords they are more competition for women than an asset. The men are becoming high maintenance. Relationships are becoming disfunctional. I dont think either sex thinks this far in a me/me genration. So when you gel down all the chaos..that leaves..only sexuality...and marketing as coin. And we know how sexually oriented marketing has become. We are becoming like the Europeans.

Oh..I disagree with you about the programming on these talk shows. The sex and drama god hand in hand...they feed off each other.
Nonetheless I think that you take away the sex/sexuality the shows will fade or collapse.

Ordo ob Chao...Order from Chaos..is the dogma..

Creat the chaos so that the order can be managed to a predictable conclusion.


Mr dDstbr,

Men and women competing with each other for power is a terrible paradigm, orangetom. I don't care if it's "reality" or not.

Cooperation and synergy is always better than power-plays.


I cannot debate this position with you here because it is the correct position.


Whitewave,

Well said once again..well said. I agree..the foundation..the building material is lousy stuff.

Our building material is under assault, being reduced to the Lowest Common Denominator...LCD in Quality daily.

So .......someone has identified/targeted the "unlovable ones" as a control agent..a marketable way to profit and allow the unlovable ones to run amok and promote themselves without risk and without work. By purchasing products and "appearing" to be the trend...whats happening. Monkey see...monkey do.
Well ..to me Whitewave...it is Doo Doo.

I will however add one concept...in slight disaggeement to your position. THere are to few people of quality in leadership positions. THere are people who are expedient..but not quality. However..also with this in mind...quality starts at the bottom and goes to the top..not the top down.

Good post Whitewave...Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 28-4-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


No need to play with semantics. My idea of 50/50 is everyone doing their share with all of their effort which is what I am pretty sure you mean by 100/100. Also I am telling you that I meet plenty of men who want their cake and eat it too by having the woman play the home maker role and work full time. Maybe we see the statistics differently in our own lives because of our own gender and backgrounds but I assure you that the problems are equal.

Perhaps women feel the need to be powerful because they have been raised only by their mothers and therefore have an unnatural distrust in men. Personally I think we all need to get over the stuff that happened to us when we were a child. I mean, I was raised by a single mom who was by no means a model of ethical behaviour but I do not feel like I have "daddy issues" or a distrust in men. Every once in awhile I have a small regret or bad memory but I work hard to get myself through it.

And that is just it, people succumb to all the bad stuff that happened to them in the past regarding the way they were parented instead of working to overcome. Which is why men and women have these issues.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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orangetom1999, what you say is all very complicated for a guy like me to understand. so what did u mean by "RISK"? i didnt get that. I want to understand ur theory on that.

so all of you sort of said that there is a power play between genders. but then are we an individualistic or collective thinking society. or are we selfish and just find easy ways to reach our goals.

and is sexual expression/display dominating or what exactly? like whos supposed to be in control here anyway. i think these things are rules we make up as we go along and what it is is what it is probably for the best. if inappropriate behaviors in public becomes a popular thing to do then who am i to question centuries of gender identity building? maybe thats what its supposed to be.

and ya i agree that men are feminized now which isnt necessarily a bad thing. watching espn and drinking beer all day on the coach isnt exactly a good manly think to do. no responsibility except bringing home the bacon.

but i i see it differently; female masculinity is the trend here in terms of women taking the role of the guy and basically acting like one, for instance talking about sex, no more virgins around, female fantasies, flirting, interest in porn, etc ---- this puts guys in an awkward position. however still words like slut are used on women only almost excessively do words like these make women feel inferior? or is it taken as a compliment nowadays, example would be calling girls(who are friends) whores all the time and they like it and dont mind.

biologically speaking men are revered as powerful while women are looked down upon as a shame. so we guys take pride in ourselves as being 'powerful' while girls take pride in being shameful? does that make sense

[edit on 29-4-2008 by DuneKnight]



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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I think what your seeing is a whole generation reared on "Girls Gone Wild" , Britney, reality shows, rap videos and the whorification of women in movies and television.

Maybe that sounds crazy, but in my day girls sat like a lady sipping a drink and had conversations with men instead of feeling up our friends.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by DuneKnight
 


intresting line of questions you have posed here. I am working on a reply and have saved it to my drafts folder..incomplete as of yet but will post when I have more time.

Must shove off now and will reply later. I have not had the time I would like to browse ATS/BTS as I would like.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on May, 1 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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Two girls kissing and grinding each other on a dance floor = hot!

Two girls kissing and grinding on me on a dance floor = ultra hot!

Half of the ATS girls kissing and grinding on me on a dance floor = dream come true!


Two fat girls grinding and kissing each other on a dance floor =




Sorry had to throw that out there. There is nothing wrong with women playing with each other, heck no. Get some jello or pudding and a kiddie pool, and let the fun ensue!



posted on May, 1 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


I wish i had your attitude towards life, the thing is when i see such things i feel sad and then my quasi-parental instincts kick in. even though im abit nihilistic but i try to find meaning in life and if i cant I will make one up. but you know whatever makes people happy is fine by me as long as they aren't being mislead.





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