Originally posted by neformore
And yet.... people deny that the holocaust happened.

Theres only one reason why they do that - and its a very ugly one - and it really has no place in a civilised society where everyone is equal.

Originally posted by Howie47
I believe it is an act of terrorism. To threaten people who challenge your version of the events of history. With a "hate crime".

Originally posted by DisInfo
Power_Semi,

As far as the whole firebombing issue, you need to get some basics on what the USAAFs tactics and procedures were. There were several different tactics used in all the many theaters in the war. Firebombs were used when there was CLOUD COVER over the intended target. If the bomber crews couldnt target whatever it was with accuracy using standard explosive ordinance, the firebombs were mixed in to ensure that the target was directly or indirectly affected. The USAAF used firebombing far less than the RAF. And while weather reports at the time were mostly guess work, and fairly unreliable, that passed as state of the art. Hell, where I live they are constantly calling for rain, even though it doesnt. Seems predicting the weather is easier in hindsight.

Oh, I caught this little gem in your last post that made me chuckle:

Originally posted by Power_Semi
dropping firebombs on civilian targets to inflict death of civilians on a massive scale is wrong no matter how you might try to justify it. The next logical conclusion from your rather foolish comment is that the Nazis invented Death camps, so its okay if we do it too - they deserved it because they did it first?

Yeah, dropping firebombs was bad. Again, Eisenhower should be debated on the merits of such a tactic, as I cant speak for the Supreme Allied Commander at the time. But your last point on the acceptance of death camps is nice. I mean just because the Germans started it, doesnt make it right? If you read a good portion of the posts on this entire site, you will see all kinds of suggestions that that very thing is happening in our world as we speak. Heck, there are even some posts that suggest it is okay because the Nazis started it.

I think I understand what your getting at in your posts. You think there should be refection on the facts of the Holocaust, real or exaggerated as we know them today. I get it, but suggesting that the Holocaust did NOT happen at all is silly. There are far more documents proving it than disproving it. Though, I would surmise that you need video and audio proof of Hitler discussing it at length to maybe considering it is true.



[edit on 4/14/2008 by DisInfo]
Christ alive, you STILL haven't read my posts have you? I NEVER said that the holocaust didn't happen, I said that you don't know for sure what happened because you didn't witness it & there is a clear & obvious case for the holocaust being invented or exagerated for other purposes. The point is that because of the obvious possibility of that occuring, documents produced by those very people who might want to exaggerate or invent it count for little, this isn't just a comment on the holocaust, its on ANY event where the bulk of the evidence comes from 1 side only.

Again, I NEVER said anything about the USAAF dropping firebombs either, yet you still drone on about it as though I did - it was YOU who first mentioned the USAAF.

I could give you a perfect example of historical inaccuracy that has later been accepted as fact, where an early reference book paraphrased, incompletely, a patent. Subsequent reference books & research papers used the first incorrect book as source material, books & papers subsequent to that used all of the previous material as source material, until eventually academics incorrectly accepted the previous erroneous conclusions as fact. It wasn't until 10 years ago, over 100 years after the 1st book, that someone went & investigated properly & found the error.

The consequence is a raft of research, inference, & conclusion all drawn from supposedly solid sources that were all WRONG.

So, the point is that you cannot simply rely upon one source of information as gospel, you need to see all of the evidence from all sides or witness it yourself to know for sure what the truth is.

If you can't grasp that then I pity you.

Originally posted by neformore
... And yet.... people deny that the holocaust happened.

Theres only one reason why they do that - and its a very ugly one - and it really has no place in a civilised society where everyone is equal.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

I have issued this challenge many, many times in debates like this. No one has ever posted their findings on any of the message boards that I have issued this challenge on.

Here is the challenge.

1) Pick a camp where jews were cremated.
2) Find out how many were allegedly cremated.
3) Find out how many cremation ovens were at those camps.
4) Find out how long those ovens were said to be in use.
5) Call your local mortuary, and find out how long it takes to cremate a body using TODAY'S technology.
6) Do the math, and see if it was PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to cremate the number of victims in the alloted time, using the existing ovens.

Simple math. I believed in the holocaust. I did the math. Something didn't add up. Was my math wrong, or was someone monkeying with history? You be the judge.

Originally posted by hinky
The death camps had the industrial machines in place for the heavy body disposal work. German efficiency at it's finest.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Here, you imply that the ONLY reason someone could deny the holocaust happened is because of racism.

Originally posted by neformore
Heres a challenge for you.
Find me a modern "shower unit" with gas tight doors that are sealable from the outside by being screwed shut.

Originally posted by neformore
You can dress it any way you want. You can try and hide behind manipulations of figures. You can try and make excuses and discredit information (using "evidence" from minority sources that people are, apparently supposed to believe when you present it, but you don't offer them the same courtesy when they present much better evidence from compelling majority sources) but when it boils down to it, when you think about it properly the ONLY reason that people deny the holocaust and go to such lengths to try and discredit it is because of race.

Because - really - it either boils down to the fact that deniers either dislike jews because they see them the same way that the Nazi's did, or they dislike jews because they claim the holocaust is jewish propaganda to serve the zionist cause and its milked for all its worth.

Either way the common link is Jewish people, and disliking them.

Now if thats not racially motivated, what is it?

Unless, of course, you are trying to tell us that the Nazi's were just really nice people and were totally misunderstood, in which case you are denying WW2 ever happened - and I'd like some of what you are on if thats the case

"Its springtime, for Hitler...in Germany......"

“and whose sole objective was the wholesale slaughter of the Jews. . . . Moving close behind the advancing front line so that few could evade their net, the Einsatzgruppen brutally shot, bayoneted, burnt, tortured, clubbed to death or buried alive almost half a million Jews in the first six months of the campaign.”

“more than 900,000, accounting for only about two thirds of the total number of Jewish victims in mobile operations.”