Let's talk about Browns gas (HHO)

Check out these folks in Japan : www.genepax.co.jp, they have figured out a way using any type of water to fuel a reaction giving of current, making it possible to run a small electric car amongst other things.
Can anyone tell me how browns gas can be used to desalinate sea water ?

PLANNED UPGRADES:

Flashback Arrestor

www.youtube.com...

I will be installing on of these on each of the vehicles I have modified on the hose between the venturi elbow and the dryer.

I have also considered installing a spring check valve in line, same location.

Sri Oracle

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

Ok i'm a bit off topic here but you are bugging the hell out of me with this "welding" stuff.
you don't weld with an open flame you "braze" and you "cut" with it also.

"braze" and "cut"
period, got it?

Originally posted by survivalsurfer
Can anyone tell me how browns gas can be used to desalinate sea water ?

Why purify water with Brown's Gas when a simple evaporation system is simplest and least expensive to operate? The evaporation system is simple and inexpensive to build, is not dangerous and uses only a very tiny fraction of the power used by the Brown's Gas technique.

www.eagle-research.com...

I suggest you google "solar still"


Sri Oracle

Originally posted by ObamaMomma
"braze" and "cut"
period, got it?

An oxyhydrogen torch is an oxy-gas torch, which burns hydrogen (the fuel) with oxygen (the oxidizer). It is used for cutting and welding metals, glass, and thermoplastics.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oxyhydrogen Welding is a Gas Welding process using a combustion mixture of Hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) for producing gas welding flame.

Oxyhydrogen Welding is used for joining metals with low melting points, like aluminum, magnesium, etc.

www.substech.com...

* 2200°C = 3992°F, for Propane/Oxygen
* 2927°C = 5300°F, for MAPP Gas/Oxygen
* 2700°C = 4892°F, for Acetylene/Oxygen
* 3200°C = 5792°F, for Hydrogen/Oxygen

www.derose.net...

Sri Oracle


[edit on 30-6-2008 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by Sri Oracle
Proper name is "Brazing"

If the board wouldn't mind following my logic...

Is a 200 watt, hho-torch masonry-heater a possibility? How much thermal mass could be practically created?

...using only a salvaged atx power supply to create 12 amps of 12 volt power:

www.wikihow.com...

I'd rig up a small torch on my fuel cell, with flashback arrestor, and check valve.

Then place the torch under a stack of bricks set 2x2, maybe 8 rows high, all resting on a 1/4 steel plate.

Could one effectively heat a well insulated room in this manner?
Would there be a need for any exhaust to the outside, if so, would that chimney need to be more than a 1" pipe? What about a drain for water, or would that get absorbed into the atmosphere of the room?

Using only 200w, how hot can I expect the bricks to get?

I will be more inclined to actually experiment this winter; so many projects... so little time.

brewing homemade soy sauce,

Sri Oracle

Considerations for in car installations:

PWM(Pulse Width Manager) This product is used in conjunction with your HHO Generator and offered with our Ultimate Series Combos. It give your HHO 3 Times combustable gas and keeps your Generator running cool. []By sending pulsed current to your device, you can drive the device with only as much current as it needs to make it more efficient and reduce heat.
[]
HHO SAFETY Check Valve
[]
PCV Enhancer
[]
Flashback Arrestor
[]
EFIE Used to program you cars computer to change the amount of fuel being added to your car to give you the savings you are needing [1990 to present.]
[]
Dual MAP sensor enhancer for vehicles [1990 to present]
[]
O2 SENSOR EXTENDER [1990 to present]

www.ebay.com (various ads, search criteria: "HHO")


I welcome discussion on any of the above. I also question whether the o2 sensor issue could be by-passed in newer vehicles by placing your venturi siphon point downstream from the sensor.

Am I correct that the EFIE, Dual MAP, and O2 Extenders are all solving the same problem in order from scientist to cave man?

Sri Oracle

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars


H2 + 103cal/gram mole => 2H => H2 + 109,000 cal/gram mole
Heat H2 to separate. Thus HHO.
And in recombining more energy is released.
(Relativistically 103 goes in, then 103 out.. an area of scholastic covering. )

That might have something to do with Hydrogen's power.

How much diatomic hydrogen and mono atomic hydrogen mix
might be occurring? 100x added power is getting into 'free energy'.

Otherwise the mono or diatomic hydrogen is combusted.

Helium can lose electron energized by spark and give off 460Kcal/g-atom
in energy. That is 4x 2H to H2 but no oxygen burning power.
Sparks from coils are 'free energy' devices generating the high voltage
for UV and other radiation power in the spark.

Oxygen Sensors Intervention Methods:

1.) Aluminum Foil: Wrap the oxygen sensors 3 or 4 times with aluminum foil and tie it at three places with bare copper wire; very cheap method and it WORKS! (In essence, making the computer believe the engine has the correct oxygen/fuel mixture).

2.) DEMSE: Purchasing a "Dual Edge MAP Sensor Enhancer". This electronic device reduces fuel consumption without modifying anything!

CONCLUSION: Fooling the oxygen sensors with Aluminum Foil or adjusting your oxygen/fuel mixture with a Dual Map Sensor Enhancer is a MUST for all fuel injected cars, otherwise you will NOT achieve the fuel savings you're seeking. The HHO Generator combined with one of the two above methods, will increase your MPG substantially!

* * * Vehicles with Carburetors have no oxygen sensors, you only need to lean out the fuel mixture and slightly advance the timing to achieve maximum fuel savings.

* * * Diesel cars and trucks need no intervention.

www.water4gasmiser.com...

Wrap your o2 sensor with aluminum foil?

Can anyone substantiate the accuracy of this statement?

Sri Oracle

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Sri Oracle]

Maybe this will shed some light.....its pretty much a reverse hydrogen cell generator. We use it to produce hydrogen for our weather balloons (in australia we use hydrogen rather than helium due to costs). KOH is the elctrolyte used

www.h2fc.com...

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
I was hoping someone could break down the process of creating HHO for us here.. I don't expect them to be exact, just break it down. Why don't you post some of the links you speak of?

Now on to something a little more tin foil hatty:

www.nottaughtinschools.com...

And I didn't know there was a difference between a 'diatomic' flame and a 'monatomic' flame.. How many gases do you know of create a "monatomic" flame?

No mysteries here huh?

[edit on 11-4-2008 by ViewFromTheStars]

In that link of yours:

* This new 'water' will burn, just like a propane fuel.
* The by product is again - water!
* When burning a substance, Browns gas changes stated directly from solid to gas without going through the matter change of gas.
* As a welding flame, the temperature of the flame varies depends on what it is burning. It will vaporize Tungsten Steal, but will not burn your hand!

This first part of this video consists of numerous demos showing the purpose for Browns gas. In this rare demonstration video you will see dozens of demonstration of the power of Browns Gas. A simple welding torch fueled by Browns Gas cuts through all types of metals including Tungsten Steal, Mylemum (lead ore crystallized rock), wood, steel, copper and many other materials. Watch one of the hardest materials on the planet (Tungsten steel) melt like butter with a hot knife!

Sounds like the last section in this table of contents

or

The Atomic Hydrogen Process

Full disclosure.

ED: From that lest link:

I specified a free energy process in which helium is made to produce 460,000 calories/gram-atom, by simple spark discharge, which is based on data from numerous generally available texts and scientific encyclopedias.

This is the highest energy output I know of from a noble gas, and the same gas can be used ad infinitum, the only input energy being that required for spark discharges. Since helium is inappropriate for the average “Joe”, and since the output is probably more than you could handle, I will more appropriately show you how to perform another free energy process, using that most easily accessible gas, hydrogen.

[edit on 6/30/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by Sri Oracle


Sounds like its not needed.

How much water is in gas?
Anyone know?

The vapor point of gas has been raised so the vapor carburetor is
no longer made.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Is a 200 watt, hho-torch masonry-heater a possibility?

You might as well use two 100W lightbulbs.

I suppose though, the same amount of heat will be produced by both an electric heater and the system you are describing:

The PSU will be 70% efficient = 30% heat
The electolysis will be 50% efficient = 0.7*0.5 = 35% heat
The combustion will be 100% efficient = 35% heat

So overall, I guess the same heat is produced (30 + 35 + 35 = 100).

It is important to note that the electrolysis-combustion process does not produce a net gain in energy, so if you think you're going to be getting more heat for free, you're wrong.

Originally posted by Ben236
It is important to note that the electrolysis-combustion process does not produce a net gain in energy, so if you think you're going to be getting more heat for free, you're wrong.

Ben236 you're missing something. There IS "more heat" for free; a net "gain" in energy, equivilent to "c" x (mass of the water consumed) ^2, less the small amount of electrical energy required to spit the hydrogen.

Its like chopping fire wood... yes you put something into it... but the fire you are able to release from the chopped wood contains much more energy than you chopping.

Yes you are putting energy in to split the water into H and O, but once split, you have a new fuel source that was unavailable before; like chopped firewood.

Sri Oracle

The burning wood analogy does not apply... the heat you get out of the wood is the result of burning the carbon that was bound into the living tissues by the accumulated solar energy the tree adsorbed over its lifetime.

How much energy you spent chopping it has no effect, other than making it burn faster than an unchopped tree by exposing more surface area of the wood to the oxygen in the air it needs to burn.

(my apologies about posting anonymously, but it was the quickest way)
--autostaretx (on many yahoo forums)

reply to post by Sri Oracle


Hey yeah, I completely forgot about that. It would be interesting to try.


Say the PSU is 70% efficient and the electrolysis is 50% efficient:

200W --> 140W --> 70W = the energy used to convert the water into HHO.

70W @ 12V = 5.83A

Using Faraday's law, the number of moles of HHO produced in one hour is only 0.109.

The enthalpy of combustion of hydrogen is -286 kJ/mol.

This leads to a figure of 31.12kJ of heat being produced by the flame in 1 hr (3600 seconds) which is equal to 8.6W.

I don't think it's worth it.

reply to post by Ben236


The gas created through this process is 66.6% Hydrogen and 33.3% Oxygen. I don't think you included the Oxygen in your figure.

Furthermore, whether or not it's "worth it" relies not so much on if there is a better way to get the energy, but rather the fact that the fuel source (water) is readily available and ultimately free, since no one can stop the rain yet.

I'm thinking about it this way: a gas powered electric generator can run on browns gas. The generator produces enough power for an electrolysis type HHO generator to produce enough gas to run on with power to spare.

A car can run on browns gas as well. Conversions to burn vapor fuel must be made, much like the vehicles that ran with propane boosters did in the past.

As for the torch setup, from what i understand the original creator was looking for a safer alternative to the gas tanks. Water, compared to compressed gas, is somewhat comforting. Its not necessarily the best most amazing and new brilliant break through but a safe, environmentally friendly alternative for those who choose to use it. just as the HHO boosters are also safer than the great idea of having a compressed hydrogen tank on your car!

HHO is compressed in water to the tune of 1866 to 1 so if you only want the hydrogen, there is approximately 1242 gallons of hydrogen gas in each gallon of water so i suppose you could even release the leftover oxygen to replenish our diminishing supply in the atmosphere. Or you could burn all the gas, either way water comes out so i guess you wind up using the same amount of oxygen anyway after it bonds to the hydrogen to recreate water.

anyway... its just cleaner than petroleum and offers more bang for your buck

how much bang? the people who have built cars that run only on HHO average about 25 miles per OUNCE of water. That is about 3200 mpg of water. so even if it was 2000 mpg, or 1000!!! so what if you needed 100 alternators to power it like some people think (but you dont) and you had them attached to your wheels with belts and all the way down your driveshaft and 15 all over your motor and the drag reduced it to 1 mpg of water...

I would much rather collect rain or even buy water for 2.00 a gallon than pay for gas

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Its like chopping fire wood... yes you put something into it... but the fire you are able to release from the chopped wood contains much more energy than you chopping.

Yes you are putting energy in to split the water into H and O, but once split, you have a new fuel source that was unavailable before; like chopped firewood.

Sri Oracle

Sorry, that's completely wrong. The chopping is irrelevant - the wood will still burn whether you chop it or not and release the same amount of energy.

When you split water you are adding energy.

If you want to draw a wood analogy then water is to hydrogen is ash is to wood - they are at a lower energy state.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
how much bang? the people who have built cars that run only on HHO average about 25 miles per OUNCE of water.

No. They don't. They are lying - which is why you can't buy a water powered car.