It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Pope Ground Zero prayer seeks terrorists' redemption

page: 1
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:59 PM
link   

Pope Ground Zero prayer seeks terrorists' redemption


www.reuters.com

Pope Benedict will pray for the conversion to love "of those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred" when he visits New York's Ground Zero, the site of the World Trade towers destroyed on September 11, 2001.

A prayer he will read also commemorates those who died or were injured in the other September 11 attack at the Pentagon and on United Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania after passengers fought off hijackers.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
Pope is coming to UN as pilgrim of peace
NYPD, Secret Service: Unprecedented Pope Security
Something Beautiful Has Begun

[edit on 4/11/2008 by biggie smalls]




posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:59 PM
link   
While I do not agree with what this Pope says for the most part, I have to hand it to him, this is incredible!

Instead of invading Afghanistan and in turn Iraq, we could have forgiven those who harmed us. We could have been the "bigger nation" (so to speak) and moved on with our lives.

The "terrorists" (if that's really who did it) won that day because we let them get the better of our emotions. We stooped down to their level by fighting back.

If we consider ourselves a Christian nation, why did we not listen to Yeshua's words?


Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also.


Nonviolence is infinitely more powerful than violence. After 911 we were united as a nation. The world was united behind us as well.

We ruined that. We could have made great progress as a result of the 911 attacks. Instead, we decided to rebury our heads in the sand and blame some people "over there" for something the American government did.

We were partly to blame for the attack. The truth is a pain. I know it is. If we weren't involved in the middle east in the first place, this would not have happened. The majority of hate does not stem from our way of life. It is our arrogance that everyone should be like us.

One of the 9/11 commission reports found out that our support of Israel was the main reason for the attacks. As sad as that is, its probably not far from the truth.

Now, with all the above being said, can we as a nation unite again and find the out the truth of 911? Its not above any of us to do our part.

Ponder this prayer and ask to be capable to forgive those who attacked us. You may find peace.



The prayer, as released by the Vatican on Thursday, reads in full:

"O God of love, compassion, and healing, look on us, people of many different faiths and traditions, who gather today at this site, the scene of incredible violence and pain.

"We ask you in your goodness to give eternal light and peace to all who died here -- the heroic first-responders: our fire fighters, police officers, emergency service workers, and Port Authority personnel, along with all the innocent men and women who were victims of this tragedy simply because their work or service brought them here on September 11, 2001.

"We ask you, in your compassion to bring healing to those who, because of their presence here that day, suffer from injuries and illness.

"Heal, too, the pain of still-grieving families and all who lost loved ones in this tragedy. Give them strength to continue their lives with courage and hope. We are mindful as well of those who suffered death, injury, and loss on the same day at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

"Our hearts are one with theirs as our prayer embraces their pain and suffering. God of peace, bring your peace to our violent world: peace in the hearts of all men and women and peace among the nations of the earth.

"Turn to your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred. God of understanding, overwhelmed by the magnitude of this tragedy, we seek your light and guidance as we confront such terrible events.

"Grant that those whose lives were spared may live so that the lives lost here may not have been lost in vain. Comfort and console us, strengthen us in hope, and give us the wisdom and courage to work tirelessly for a world where true peace and love reign among nations and in the hearts of all."


www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 03:22 PM
link   
reply to post by biggie smalls
 


I see this as a big step towards forgiving those who murdered over 3000 people on September 11th, 2001. The Pope does not speak for all of us, and I would still like to see an independent investigation done, but he is attempting to unite all peoples.

This isn't an American issue. This is a worldwide issue. Terrorism is everywhere, and as nefermore's profile says, "terrorism did not start on September 11th."

There have been countless attacks on US embassies around the world prior to 911, but none on US soil. No one seemed to care when foreigners were killed, but the wake up call when America is attacked woke some people up.

We need to confront the issue of fundamentalism whether its Islamic, Christian, Judaic, Hindu, Anarchist, etc etc. This is not solely a religious based problem. Its a societal, human-nature problem. Radicalism (maybe a better way to describe what I'm talking about as opposed to fundamentalism) is prevalent everywhere.

There is a necessity for safety. People want to feel like they're not going to be attacked by their neighbors, foreigners, government, etc etc. This is completely reasonable.

What we have done in response to an attack on American soil is to make this country, and in turn, the world less safe. We are now more vulnerable to an attack from "terrorists." We've essentially put our hand in a bees nest, stirred it all around, and expected to walk away without stingers stuck into our fingers. Its ridiculous.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 03:43 PM
link   
Very well laid out post biggie smalls

I have to agree with you on so much of it.

So much could be different if things had gone a different direction than it did. I am not going to get into the 9/11 was an inside job or 9/11 was conducted wholly by Al Qaida. As that is not the real issue. I would say that there are those outside of the U.S. and those within the U.S. that would like to see the ideology of America crumble. Forming a war though for the reasons that were given and have been given was far from the right thing to do. At the same time those who do not want the people of America to live in peace would never let us go through with the forgiveness that is mentioned. They would continue to strike at us no matter what.

There has to be a better answer to bringing about the dream of a life of peace I just cannot give the easy answer to that because I do not feel there is one. The best we could hope to do in my opinion is to do our best to live in that peace and at the same time do our best to prevent our home from being attacked by another. This goes not only for the U.S. but the rest of the world as well.

I agree though that if we had not been spending so much on maintaining a certain hold on Middle Eastern soil things would most likely be largely different. But I think the biggest part of these type of issues stem from the greed that has taken an overwhelming hold on mankind in general. Look at America now and the problems we are facing with the economy. If we were not taught that living a life of materialism was the right thing to do the economy would be far better. I know for fact that I cannot think of a way to solve these problems that everyone would accept but in my opinion much of it stems from greed and materialism.

Raist



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:00 PM
link   
You people have forgotten about project for the new american century.

Shame chistianity is leaving the west, being taken of by some form of hinduism, which is the worst mainstream religion there is. Just look at how, india is hel on earth for so many, and why is the west wanting those crappy beliefs.

I wonder will man look back on the christian beliefs one day, and say with sorry, why did we leave it. I just wonder what sort of religion we are going to.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:08 PM
link   
Someone has to diverge from this a bit, so I'll take a chance...,

While I commend the nature and principle of non-violence, it is not the path to freedom in a violent world.

I wouldn't have a problem forgiving anyone for their transgression (by the way - I was there). But I demand to know who I'm forgiving. I don't care to accept that the biblical concept evoked 'turn the other cheek' equated to 'let yourself get slapped' in the first place. Offenses happen, forgiveness is forthcoming, but guilt must be accepted or forgiveness is a ludicrous surrender of dignity. NOT pride, dignity.

The Pope can, if he so chooses, have his entire church issue en masse carte blanche forgiveness to every unknown assailant that ever lived.

I demand to be recognized as one who will not forgive 'whoever' - I will forgive someone and I want to know who I'm forgiving.

This is a sore spot for me. I don't like having moral shame cast upon my outrage for being wronged, nor do I feel it's appropriate to 'forgive by proxy.'

If it represents closure and peace for some - fine. I'm NOT one of those who's willing to sacrifice the dignity of my people for an object lesson in "can't we all just get along?"

OK, give me a second to brace myself for the inevitable throngs who will be adding me to their ignore list.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:19 PM
link   
reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Further proof that this Pope is a weak Pope..

And a coward.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:31 PM
link   
reply to post by Raist
 



I appreciate your response and thank you for taking the time to write it.



reply to post by andy1033
 



"You people." What is that supposed to mean? And what does PNAC have anything to do with the price of eggs?

Christianity is not leaving the west. Catholicism, and in turn, "Popianity" as some call it, does not equal every single Christian. While I was raised under catholicism, I never believed any of it. If people still want to follow the bible that's fine with me.

You think hinduism is the worst organized religion? Is that supposed to be a joke? I'm not going to get into a ranking of all the organized religions, but christianity has a much worse track record than pretty much all the others.

India is "hell on earth" partially due to british rule. Remember the Raj? Well the british invaded, paid off many princes, setup puppet kingdoms, and ruled with an iron fist in others.

Present day India is not 100% a result of hinduism, more like western imperialism.

In my opinion, no religion is better than any religion. Then again, I can think for myself and don't need to follow a dogma to tell me what is right and wrong.

My internal compass is stronger than most, what can I say?



reply to post by Maxmars
 



Thanks for the response, very well thought out and articulated. Nonviolence conquer violence. Look at Gandhi. He fought tyranny by non-cooperation. He did not need to shed blood.

I do not expect anyone to forgive those who attacked the WTC (Pentagon as well and the other plane crash in PA; probably more events we don't even know about). I still want to know what happened. There is not enough evidence on either the government side or the alternative story side.

I do not think the Pope is someone who can forgive as he was not in NYC that day, nor is he American. Americans are the one who can forgive. He is more or less trying to help the healing process along, and for that, I commend him.

I can't say I like Benedict though. He was in the hitler youth, and that alone makes me question his credibility. I remember when he was sworn in, I was in Ireland visiting family. The rest of my family is somewhat religious, and I made a statement along the lines of "how can we have a nazi pope?"

I understand 911 is a sore spot. I know people who perished that day. Its not something easily forgiven, especially when we don't know the whole truth.

I thought the article was interesting and said my share. Here we are, years later, and the truth still isn't known. Its very sad.


reply to post by Rockpuck
 



I can't say I like Benedict, but what does this have to do with his statement? How is he weak for asking forgiveness? Aside from the fact it is not his to ask.

I'm curious to know what you mean. Care to clarify?

You could have gone with nazi


[edit on 4/11/2008 by biggie smalls]



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:50 PM
link   
Ah for you biggie, I can clarify my hatred for this celestial dumbass..



How is he weak for asking forgiveness?


Well hes not "wrong" exactly for asking forgiveness on the souls that inflicted the damage at the World Trade Center.. any good Christian should to some extent I suppose.. HOWEVER ..

1. He has no right to suggest to anyone that we should forgive those who attacked the towers (put all conspiracies aside)

2. As the leader of a religion that once held the dominate place in the world, it is through HIS leadership and the non-active assertiveness of the late Pope John Paul the Second, that Islam has flourished while Christianity subsides into the shadows of our civilization ..

All the while the moral fabric of society its self deteriorates. Not being a practicing Christian, I would still prefer strong Christian morals over a complete lack of morals and absolute apathy for all that is wrong with society..

So where is the Church's head strong motives to cure the ailments of Western Civilization? None-existent. They are and will always be the strongest Christian body in the world.. and yet even the very evident weakness of the Church can't be solved let alone the weakness of our societies.. The Church, where it should be proactive in the communities as they where once, it instead focuses its attention on menial, trivial and damnit, down right absurd issues like preventing young adults and teens from using birth control, putting their ignorant noses into political affairs that they hold no sway over, and visiting mosques, to bow to Mecca, to ensure that they are submissive to the politically correct bastards that now control them.

Under the control of this pompous Pollock the Church will continue to loose influence and respect in the world community.. where we should be condemning an entire region for unjustifiable actions against innocent civilians we instead pray for forgiveness and ask, oh so nicely in his nasally annoying voice "don't be mean to us, please..." ..

Just as a few weeks ago when the body of a Catholic Cardinal showed up in Baghdad after having been kidnapped several months before, the Pope issues a letter "condemning" the terrorist.. essentially says "now guys.. that wasn't very nice..." ..

The decline of the Church, the once powerhouse of Christian influence, is a tell tale sign of the times.. the decline of our spiritual and influential centers in philosophy and religion are the under-cursors of the deteriorating nature of our very societies. As these institutions fail, slowly, silently, our society its self fails, to be replaced by those societies that are prevailing now not only in religious and influential matters, but also economically and socially as well..

As the West fails, the East progresses.. a change in power as we have forsaken our past and our selves in a quest for greed, power, and destruction through corruption and apathy for all that is wrong..

Its not the Pope him self as a man I don't like.. I am sure hes a nice guy.. I despise everything he represents, everything he stands for, and the damage he is inflicting to the Church and her people..

Long gone are the days where we had the balls and the self respect to stand up for ourselves.. here is the time where we essentially as a people silently implode in a cannibalistic, politically correct fashion of self destruction.

The 21st century will not be a favorable century for Western Civilization.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 05:06 PM
link   
reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Perhaps we can ask for Muslims' forgiveness for supporting Israel and move on. I'm sure they can handle it.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 06:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Instead of invading Afghanistan and in turn Iraq, we could have forgiven those who harmed us.


Sure .. forgive them. That's fine. BUT .. you gotta' stop them from doing it again. THAT is important. Just forgiving them wouldn't stop a damn thing in the future. They'd just hit us again.

Forgive them? Yes. But also go get the rest and stop them from doing it again.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
Further proof that this Pope is a weak Pope.. And a coward.


...and an appeaser (like Chamberlain - see where it got him?)

He's also a euro-centric anti-american and he bends over and kisses the feet of muslims all over the world. Ratzinger has made soooooo many comments about what he'd like to have happen ... and they are all bad for America.

As cardinal he was okay. As pope?


[edit on 4/11/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 06:44 PM
link   


As cardinal he was okay. As pope?


Hes old and weak, quite obviously the other Cardinals thought that the stress of the job would have killed the old man by now... I imagine some may be getting a bit impatient by now..



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 07:06 PM
link   
reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Please fogive me if I misspoke - I meant absolutely in no way to criticize your find or the fact that you posted it. In fact, I would have given your post a flag+star except I got a little 'uptigh' there for a sec. (fixed that though
)

My principle 'knee jerk' excuse is too obvious to belabor now, but I really do respect and admire the personal strength and moral courage to live by the creed "I am willing to die for this cause, but there is no cause for which I am willing to kill." Mr. Ghandi was among the few true human beings who's life strengthened my resolve to be a 'good' man (or at least to never stop trying to be one). I would feel ashamed to have called the value of this axiomatic declaration into question.

I can't however rise above a felling of betrayal in many ways when I see the abandon with which this whole 9-11 issue is 'thrown aside'. Like it was a hobby, or a 'phase' we're going through. It's a challenge to remain objective when the leader of my family's religion leads my fellow countrymen down the path to reconciliation with 'whoever it was.'

After all - terrorism isn't a person is it? Terror can't be hand-cuffed and water boarded can it? All lies aside - there was SOME terrorist who is responsible? Why not name him? Why didn't the Pope say ' Osama, we forgive you." or "Islamofascists - you are forgiven.", or how about "Muslims of the world - we forgive you."

I'm not being facetious here, of course he wouldn't say that! But the important thing for me is that he wouldn't say it because he KNOWS they are not those who are guilty. How can you pardon the unknown? How can we make peace with the unknowable face of violent extremism?

It all points to an exercise in urban pacification to me. Many (and I mean MANY) devout Catholics [especially and in particular those who were not closely witnessed to the event - insulated by distance, media fog, and desensitization] just had their connection to the event removed into the realm of 'that was then, this is now.' I have a complaints about that: Is the death and suffering connected to this event - which is still ongoing today - not 'worth' healing - that we must forgive and walk away (other cheek turned) - if so - says who? You, your Holiness? Was that an order, are you being 'infallible' now?

I already find myself being consigned to meet up with some unknown person, at some untold point in future time, who will comment to me, either innocently or otherwise that I, in some way, 'should' follow the Pope's lead and forgive 'those who yada yada yada.." At that point my guts will tighten and I will unload such a stream of grief on that person that they'll need therapy to recover (Believe me, I can be pretty nasty, I'm not proud of it).

For those are conspiratorially minded -

The Vatican has the single most effective and deeply entrenched intelligence operation the world has ever known - those in the business will know better than to argue against that point, really. YET THEY HAVEN'T ONCE REVEALED WHAT THEY KNOW.... 'but forgive them.' Again I ask - forgive who?

[edit on 11-4-2008 by Maxmars]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Instead of invading Afghanistan and in turn Iraq, we could have forgiven those who harmed us. We could have been the "bigger nation" (so to speak) and moved on with our lives.


Obviously the pope knows nothing about nothing.

How could we have moved Israels interests forward without positioning our troops on top of the oil fields in Iraq?



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:52 AM
link   
This reminds me of the old saying that it takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight than to actually fight.
And I happen to agree with that.

However, I abhor the hypocrisy of this pope, and the hypocrisy of the upper echelons of the organisation he represents, so I find myself a little torn by agreeing with him (although I only agree with him to an extent).

This pope reminds me of so many modern politicians - a lot of style over substance, a lot of soundbites and usually a whole lot of nothing follows it.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 01:18 PM
link   
reply to post by budski
 

I tell you what, I have been re-reading your post over and over and trying to figure out what was in there that keeps drawing me back to it.

Maybe for me the grief is too near still. I know and my heart does not struggle with not clinging to the emotion associated with the event. And yet the compulsion to utterly reject his 'carefully crafted words' is too strong. I don;t like being in the position of an opponent of a person pursuing peace, even if it is only in words. We are all guilty of something. I suspect I am guilty of inflicting a wrong on someone - without that person even knowing it was me - and by my own reasoning I ca never be 'forgiven' unless I reveal my guilt. I fear I have along way to go before I can 'get around' this moral dilemma wrapped in a cultural riddle, inside a social puzzle.

Ugh, stab me with a fork, I'm done.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 01:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Instead of invading Afghanistan and in turn Iraq, we could have forgiven those who harmed us. We could have been the "bigger nation" (so to speak) and moved on with our lives.


Yes, that would work oh so well! Just like if the Tibetans did the same, the PRC would just stop erasing their culture from the face of the Earth. Or how about if we just forgive Bush and all our politicians for all the transgressions they've perpetrated against us and the world, I'm sure they will stop.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 02:14 PM
link   
"those consumed with hatred"... and what is the record for his organization over the past 1000 years? Just imagine the world without ANY religion for a moment, wouldn't it be incredible?



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 02:27 PM
link   
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Actually you are quite wrong. The Pope is someone who is supposed to carry on the teachings of Christ, and Christ himself would have forgiven these terrorists, just as he forgave those who crucified him.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 03:22 PM
link   
I agree with the OP: we should forgive those who do us harm and indeed turn the other cheek.

The thing is, I don't think it was middle-easterners that attacked us that day hahah inside job? Yes. So...I guess I'll just have to do my best to forgive my own government, eh?




top topics



 
6
<<   2 >>

log in

join