Originally posted by Locoman8
He said that AFTER the tribulation of those days the angels will collect His elect.
But Jesus did NOT say "after" in verse 31:
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of
heaven to the other.
1. Although verse 31 follows verses 29 and 30, there is no CLEAR words of chronology in verse 31. IE: Verse 31 does NOT start with "then", but
2. Matthew 24 jumps around a bit chronologically, does it not? We get a bit of the picture, but in some cases there is no definitive time line of
events (the order of events).
3. Matthew 24:31 describes the gathering (by angels) from one end of HEAVEN to the other, not earth. (Details matter in eschatology).
4. Mark 13:27 DOES put the gathering of the elect after "that tribulation":
Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the
uttermost part of heaven.
5. Mark 13:27 apparently signals the VERY END of the tribulation, for in the previous verse Jesus has returned. Please note the ABSENCE of the word
"ye" in verse 26:
And then shall they
see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
6. There is the very same absence of the word "ye" in Matt 24:30:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they
shall see the Son of man
coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
7. Jesus said He will return as a "thief in the night", clearly the picture in verse 30 of Matthew is NOT a picture (figuratively) of Jesus
returning as a thief, for ALL will see Him (and mourn...not a GOOD thing!).
8. There is no POSITIVE indication (that I can find) that the "elect" in Matthew 24:31 are alive, it just says "elect". Neither in Mark 13:27.
They MAY be alive, but that is just a presumption. My guess
is that they are sleeping (dead)....and they are those who are the Saints killed
during the tribulation.
Eschatology is one of the most difficult subjects to study (in my opinion). It appears that God made it confusing ON PURPOSE. Why? I don't know.
But, with that said, it cannot be that verse 31 in Matthew 24 is a "rapture" verse, for it takes place AFTER the tribulation...AFTER Jesus returns.
(Jesus returns at the END of the tribulation). But Jesus instructs us:
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin
to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
(Also note, again, the absense of the word "ye" in the previous verse:
Luke 21:27 And then shall they
see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you are placing the rapture "after" the 2nd coming of Jesus? Correct me if I'm not understanding you.