Saudi blogger posts video on violent Christian extremism

Does anyone really care that a "blogger" posted some video? Is this "NEWS"?

reply to post by stikkinikki


Technically speaking, yes.

Bloggers are the mass-media of the future, in case you hadn't noticed.

This video is lame, and allow me to explain myself before calling me bias.

It starts off with a couple of choice passages, Samuel and Numbers, Old Testament stuff.. let me explain what the Old Testament is. There's so much confusion over it I should make a thread about it.

The Old Testament is a story of the beginning, then the rise and history of the Jewish people, the Israelites, or God's chosen, and their downfall into Idolatry.

How does it end? Do any of you who criticize even read this stuff? The Old Testament ends essentially in ruin. The tribes fell to idolatry, then were swept off into exile. The land of Israel was lost to the Romans. Tyrants reign.

The New Testament begins. This is where true Christianity starts to plead its' case so to speak. It says, Yeshua came to save us from sin and to warn us, that we're all "Israelites" in that we're all God's chosen so we should know it and act like it, that we have Godly attributes of kindness. Yeshua is crucified, resurrects. Then theres letters from the various saints like Paul jumbled together as they made their travels through the ancient world, places like Greece and Turkey and Thrace, preaching the Gospel. It includes most of their ultimate martyrdoms and all of the extraordinary miracles that occurred in their lives. Then there's a book from an oldened John, exiled to Patmos, going insane some say, about "The end of the world" and the return of Yeshua. End of the Bible.

Do you see the concept here? It is this: That there is indeed bad stuff in the Old Testament, and we are not being commanded to repeat it. In those days, according to Samuel, God spoke to the Israelites and said attack this people, kill everything living, etc. Okay, got it. Does this mean that God is speaking to us now, telling us to kill .. Canadians, and take their land? No! It is a STORY of the PAST to LEARN from. To NOT repeat. We learn of the Israelites savagely taking their land, only to be savagely taken away from it. Gee, sounds like divine justice to me! We learn how they fell into idolatry and paganism, and sacrificed children throwing them into fire. Gee, sounds like something not to repeat. Sounds like this means .. to do this .. is to be wrong and bad, so bad that heres the chronicle of it when it originally happened, so DONT REPEAT that because if you do, the same divine wrath will come down on you, see Revelation. It's simple, I don't see why people don't understand the Christian Old Testament.

Originally posted by havingfun
Oh really. Sorry kid, but when is the last time some bible thumpers from backwater texas strapped a bomb on themselves and blew up a market?

No need. They just need to strap on a seatbelt.

Then just drop a payload of a few hundred or thousand bombs on the place you disagree with and that has not attacked you nor could possibly do so.

To me...it's the same damn thing except you get to live afterwards while scores of innocents die. In the case of Iraq...just say "oops" my bad then shift the blame to the people you murdered or left homeless by the thousands and tell them it's their fault for not rebuilding their country that we destroyed fast enough. Not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps after our horrific visitation.

George Bush said God told him to do it.

That is madness.

- Lee

I havent watched the video yet, but on first instincts I welcome this move from this blogger.

This is the sort of action I can tolerate in response to an anti-islamic film or cartoon, as opposed to holding up banners saying "Your blood will flow in the streets", burning embassies and rioting.

Kudos to the blogger for responding verbally rather than by violence.

Religion and politics are a toxic mix.

Sadly both sides of this debate, namely Islam and Christianity, seem hell-bent on confrontation and spreading the seeds of fear to gain control of their flocks.

Anyone that can say God told him to do anything that doesn't involve love or charity is insane in my opinion. I welcome this video for the pure fact that its getting exposure and showing some of the hypocrisy of our political leaders. The 'war on terror' has consistently used religious tones to advance the wests agenda up to the point that we are at now, invading countries thousands of miles away for spurious reasons.

Oh, and when people critisise Islam for the use of suicide bombs think if the shoe was on the other foot and Muslim armies were in your country how you would react to them taking out every person and value you hold dear?

[edit on 12-4-2008 by BigC2012]

Budski has a point, tit for tat, do unto others.........., and all that. Its only when the Xtremists are in power should we be afraid. Like Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld were. Do we know the full extent of the current candidates' stand on fanatical extremist terrorism or do we just know their "8 by 10 glossy" version?

Obama has the most "glossys" with the littlest depth. Clinton has yet to "print her glossys". McCain sounds like he's in Bush's backpocket.

reply to post by johnsky


get them to live up to the peaceful ideals of their holy books. Make them be what they claim they are.

reply to post by runetang


I understand your point, but I feel that the video has a lot to say regarding the way people are very quick to pick up on the "bad" points of any religion.

We constantly hear how Islam is such a violent religion, just because of the actions of a few nutters - it's forced down our throats on a daily basis.

The video showed how the same technique can be applied to other religions, and make them look bad by the selected use of passages and clips to reinforce the point.

We see it all the time here on ATS - a member will cherrypick parts of a statement in order to make another member look bad or foolish, in order to further their own agenda/argument.

This isn't real discussion any more than the video is proof of christianity being bad - but people do it all the time and IMO the blooger did a good job of getting his point across.

Originally posted by budski

It's funny how a thread gets nowhere when it says something people don't want to hear

Or says something that we've all heard a million times, every single day on this site.

It's funny and extremely ironic how much people on here preach acceptance, tolerance and peace... especially with regards to Islam. And I personally agree with the overall message there. But a good portion of these people are always eager to ignore their own message when it comes to Christianity. And I'm not talking about a respectful difference of opinion, either. This site is becoming almost as intolerant toward Christians, and Christianity in general, as it already is towards conservatives and Republicans.

And I'm not necessarily talking about this thread or the OP, either. I'm just talking about the threads and posts that I've seen on here in the few years I've been visiting the site, both as a browser and then ultimately as a member. People come on here with absolutely no regard for the beliefs and passion of their fellow members, and ignorantly and rudely declare Christianity to be a myth and fabrication. They compare Jesus Christ to the Easter Bunny. But most of them would never dare mock Islam or Mohammad. There is, without a doubt, a double standard here.

I know that this is a discussion board and that debating is part of it. I'm not here to discourage debate or disagreement. I'm just asking that those of you who disagree with Christian beliefs, or any beliefs for that matter, do so in a more respectful manner. Just because you may believe something with all of your heart does not give you the right to mock or disrespect those who believe something entirely different. The members of this site who happen to be Christian, or any religion, get the same level of respect that those who believe the official story about 9/11. And it's not right. In fact, neither scenareo is right. I think that everyone's opinion on this site should be respected, regardless of how unbelievable to others it may be.

Granted, I can handle anything that is thrown my way. Especially on an internet message board. But I think for the good of this site, and for the good of our common goal of seeking the truth, we should be much kinder and respectful towards our fellow members with differing views. Some people here need to brush the chip off their shoulder and stop acting like their opinion and their beliefs trump everyone else's.

Now, let me close by apologizing for hijacking this thread. I just feel that it is something that really needed to be said. And just so I'm not in violation of any rules here, I'll comment on the actual topic here. It's painfully obvious that there are extremists members in a majority of the worlds religions, political parties, organizations, etc. The fact that this Saudi blogger compiled a six minute video allegedly pointing out Christian extremism does not erase the problem we have today with Islamic extremism. It doesn't change the fact that a lot of moderate Muslims are either too afraid or too indifferent to condemn the radical elements that have hijacked their religion. As a Christian, I recognize the evils perpetrated by elements of my religion. And I do condemn actions in the past, the present, and the future. I have my beliefs but I'm never going to be one to force-feed them on others. The same cannot be said for many Christians, but they are in the minority in this country. And just as they shouldn't be trying to forcefully convert non-believers, neither should Muslims, and neither should atheists. The world will be a much better place when everyone agrees to disagree, and agrees to respect everyone's personal views and beliefs without mocking them or declaring their holy scriptures to be fairy tales.

www.danielpipes.org...

America's war on terrorism did not begin in September 2001. It began in November 1979.

That was shortly after Ayatollah Khomeini had seized power in Iran, riding the slogan "Death to America" - and sure enough, the attacks on Americans soon began. In November 1979, a militant Islamic mob took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, the Iranian capital, and held 52 Americans hostage for the next 444 days.

The rescue team sent to free those hostages in April 1980 suffered eight fatalities, making them the first of militant Islam's many American casualties. Others included:

April 1983: 63 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.
December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.
January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.
April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.
September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).
December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.
June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.
After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.

Simultaneously, the murderous assault of militant Islam also took place on U.S. soil:

July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.
August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.
August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.
September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.
January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.
November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.
February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.
January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.
February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.
March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.
February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.
October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City.
In all, 800 persons lost their lives in the course of attacks by militant Islam on Americans before September 2001 - more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War. (Further, this listing does not include the dozens more Americans in Israel killed by militant Islamic terrorists.)

And yet, these murders hardly registered. Only with the events of a year ago did Americans finally realize that "Death to America" truly is the battle cry of this era's most dangerous foe, militant Islam.

So I guess Bush was president back then and caused them to start chanting death to America, and they started death to America chants and elected people who supported it. Nobdoy voted for Bush for saying death to Islam. I never voted for the guy but in the defence of Americans that did he never chanted death to anybody to get votes.

reply to post by JBA2848

I take your point, but I'm not entirely sure how it fits into the subject that this thread addresses.
If you'd care to elaborate on your point and how it fits into the discussion, I'd be more than happy to talk about it.

I'd also recommend reading up on the history of the mideast - the problems started way before '79, which was merely a consequence of policy in the mideast going back to the days of the british empire when it was in full swing.

This guy making a video is EXACTLY the right way for the Muslim world to try and counteract criticism of their religion. Rather than joining a protest calling for a fatwa against Geert Wilders, he used his brain and put together a video showcasing some of the holes on Christianity.

That being said, the 2 videos aren't on an even keel at all. Those soldiers weren't acting in the name of God when the barbarically beat those kids, and in fact, the whole war in Iraq has not been on the basis of religion (or if it has, it's a huge conspiracy hidden from us). Everything stated in Geert Wilders video is based on religiously-guided action.

I'll maintain my view that Christianity is wrong and Islam is wronger.

reply to post by Cythraul


But god told bush to invade,
don't you remember?

Here

If that's not putting a religious spin on it, I don't kow what is

reply to post by budski


Well its been a one sided story so far, and the propaganda of the blogger who posted the video seems to be getting so much support from many on here. I thought I would through a monkey wrench in the spokes by giving some facts. My earlier post showed how there religious verses from the bible have nothing to do with people following christianity due to the follow New Testament Bible There quotes were from Old Testament which they follow with the Quran.

And this latest post shows that peoples excuses that Bush caused them to hate us and its about time they make some videos to show how radical American Christians are I couldn't tell you where to find any links to sites such as that to support this guys claim. Want me to find the opposite radical Islamist I could post on here all day. And not propaganda like this guy but video and pictures from Iran, Saudi Arabia,Iraq you name it.

Heres a picture from not to long ago and small article on the signs they had recently in a parade there on military jeeps and Ahmadinejad sits in the stands watching as they go by.www.jihadwatch.org...

And I think everything I have added to this thread is related maybe just not the point of view people are wanting. A defensive view with counter information that out weighs anything that blogger posted. Maybe I should counter the post by showing people praying in church and singing reigious hyms but I felt compelled to do the way I did.

reply to post by JBA2848


The point is that we are subjected to the pro-war propaganda telling us how bad islam is every day from the MSM.

I don't think anyone here is claiming that christianity is bad, it's more to do with the way that ANY religion can be twisted to look bad if you present "evidence" in a certain way.

What people on this thread are supporting is the idea that we are constantly targeted by the MSM in an attempt to programme us all into believing that islam is a "bad" religion - and that the same methods our MSM uses can easily be re-directed to make other religions look bad.

I repeat, no-one is attacking christianity.

And again, I'll repeat that all this started way before bush or '79 and is the culmination of many years of interference in the region, although what that has to do with the video or it's intended message is beyond me.

[edit on 12/4/2008 by budski]

I don't see how anyone on either side showing images or videos of extremists can make any point whatsoever.

It's all wrong. "insert hippy music and a van here"

The video was disturbing. The woman asked for these kids to learn to lay down their lives. How in the hell did this woman get her hands on these kids? on top of that, the interviewed kids were fine with "dying".. they said they were not afraid(I'm sure if they were shown a gun in their face that would change though).

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
hmm.. wait.. I know.. it's religion that is going on.

Does it really take a religion to tell you where your moral compass is pointing? Or does it take a religion to confuse it?

-- back to the video.
I think the guy was making a point about the soldiers beating the people in the beginning by letting you hear the voice of the guy taking the video. It was fanatic and full of glee that another human was getting beat. The soldiers were of course going too far IMO ..no matter what the scenario. It doesn't take 5 kicks in the chest to subdue someone.. especially after being hit with 14 punches and a gun swipe.
--- and then to read the link of GW bush claiming "god told me" was amazing. I had no idea he said that.

I don't care how benevolent you are with your religion or how well you are able to deal with your moral compass. Religion and how it is used and WILL ALWAYS be used is the root of evil and extremists like this woman and a thousand other tyrants will be around. If these kids make it into politics after being brainwashed at that age.. watch out.

I'm really sorry if this offends. It's the pattern of history and until we all agree on one religion or NO religion with morality defined and upheld then this sort of subject will always be around and exploited.
Personally, No religion but defined and upheld morality is the way to go.

creepingsharia.wordpress.com...

Beyond Fitna - NGO in Iran Seeks to Prove Bible is Distorted, Violent in anti-Christian Film
In an apparent attempt to justify Islamic violence…expect a worldwide panic and fear of violence, rioting, over this anti-Christian blasphemy. We’re just waiting for the next installment of Fitna. Will the MSM refer to this as anti-Christian, racist, xenophobic?

TEHRAN (FNA)- A Non-Governmental Organization in Iran has started production of a documentary called ‘Beyond Fitna’ to respond to far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders’ provocative dissertation ‘Fitna’

Update: We reported, or thought we did, on Dutch broadcaster KRO who was planning a counter film to Fitna, but they waxed their idea…here’s the money quote, “…After extensive research, linking Bible quotations with real political events and acts of violence however produced an insufficient basis for a thorough journalistic production.” But here’s another attempt to counter Fitna - anyone care to comment on Schism?

I guess if Iran gave up on the idea of makeing a film to counter Fitna we probly don't have to worry about there being one.

I do agree the MSM does have a lot of news about Islamic terrorist and Islamic radicals. But don't you think thats because the Islamic terrorist and Islamic radicals are doing a lot of things to make it in the news. And countries like Iran constantly chanting death to America has something to do with it. If followers of Islam spoke out against these acts and told there leaders to stop using Islam as a reason for war and to use it for peace. Those marches and chants would end up on every channel on tv. But they say its aginst there religon to speak out against the Islamic terrorist and Islamic radicals which puts them all in a bad light. I don't think any other religion would allow terrorist and radicals to take it over.

reply to post by JBA2848


I'm pretty sure that radicals and extremists haven't taken over islam - there are hundreds of millions of muslims who are just as sickened and appalled by the violence commited in the name of their religion as the west is.

One of the major problems is that although "moderate" muslims often speak out against the violence, it is not thought of as newsworthy by the msm - they'd rather demonize (or attempt to) all muslims, as it gets more viewers, sells more papers etc

The modern MSM is about soundbites and maintaining an atmosphere of dread - and they don't always let the facts get in the way of what they see as a good story.



[edit on 12/4/2008 by budski]

reply to post by stikkinikki


I would agree with you in that the overwhelming majoriyt of blogs out there are meaningles. A small minority of blogs can be important. You can liken blogs to singing. When Paul Potts sings, you have something special. When some drunk guy at a bar belts out some karaoke, you have something that is meaningless. There are very few singers like Paul Potts, yet millions of louts who belt out bad Karaoke. Even though much of the singing out there is meaningless, we nevertheless should not discount the Paul Potts' of the world. Simiilarly we should not discount the important blogs in the world because there are millions of useless blogs.

Some blogs are important because they are written by important people like politicians, experts, etc. Blogs may be a way of communicating and debating ideas rapidly in way s other media like printed media or scholarly journals cannot do.

Some blogs, while written by ordinary people, are nevertheless important. They may contain unique insights, original ideas, or may be otherwise entertaining.