It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Media Blackout? Robert Kahre Defeats IRS in Court 161-0

page: 1
<<   2  3 >>

log in

+56 more 
posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:21 PM
VIDEO Insider Exclusive: IRS vs. Robert Kahre
Steve Murphy interviews Robert Kahre and his attorney, William A. Cohan. (Includes security footage from the raid which government agents attempted to destroy/conceal).

I was surprised when searching for prior threads here that there had only been 1 thread and just a handful of posts.

This story has been unfolding since 1993 but reached a landmark status in September of 2007 when a Nevada jury returned 0 guilty verdicts to 161 charges against the defendants. The crux of the case hinged upon the fact that the defendant paid his employees in $1.00 silver coins which are currently in circulation and are legal tender. The IRS contends that taxes owed should be based on the market value as a precious metal (approximately $114,000,000) and not the cumulative $1.00 face value of the coins. Apparently even highly educated tax attorneys are unable to conclude how the law applies to this situation.

Liberty Watch Article on the Kahre Case Article on the Kahre Case

The government has not backed down however and is most definitely building yet another case against Kahre. While this story is not "breaking news" and many of you have likely heard of this case, I am very concerned by the lack of coverage from the MSM.

The defendant is the uncle of a close friend of mine who is up against life in prison to defend against abuses of our constitutional rights and freedoms. We hope to spread awareness on the issue here at ATS and perhaps to hear some of your thoughts.


[edit on 10-4-2008 by SystemiK]

posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:29 PM
well my friend, that is interesting.
If the coins are still "legal tender" then I don't know what the government can do about it.
I am trying to think of a silver dollar before the Eisenhower?

If the monetary unit is not in circulation then that really does pose a question.

Why was he paying people like that?

posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:30 PM
The IRS seems to be like a pit bull, they never turn lose. And they never admit they're wrong. Actually, I worry more about the IRS and the ATF than any other alphabet agencies out there. These two have a lot in common with religious fanatics, when it comes to determination to win at all costs.

A star and a flag.Glad to see this brought up again.

posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Why was he paying people like that?

My understanding is that he (like many others, including Ron Paul) do not believe that the IRS has any lawful authority to tax personal income. He found a loophole in which he could pay his employees with these silver coins which obviously had the effect of reducing his employee's tax liabilities (as well as his own). I can understand that this is a point in which many people will disagree. Some will see him as a greedy buisnessman. Others, such as myself tend to view his actions as heroic actions against an IRS agency which exists outside of constitutional law. I leave that judgement for each person to make based on his own beliefs...

Interestingly, he states in the interview posted above that he initiated a lawsuit against the IRS in 1993 and paid his filing fees with 240 of these same silver coins (even though the value of the coins was in excess of the $1 face value). The coins were accepted and he was not reimbursed in any way for the excess. Quite interesting that the gov will accept them just fine but takes great exception to them being used as wage re-imbursement.

Another point of interest is that he claims that he helped a few dozen other companies to set up similar wage re-imbursements, yet to date, I do not believe that the IRS has gone after any of those companies. I imagine that they desire a court decision in their favor before opening up any additional cases.

His original lawsuit against the IRS was intended to bring to light this practice of paying in precious metals and to reach a legal precident. It seems to me that they wanted nothing to do with any "legal entanglements" which a court case may have brought about yet, they most definitely held a grudge and have brought that grudge to bear upon Robert Kahre.

posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:04 PM
I wonder if Mr.Kahre has a legal defense fund I can send some money to.
He is a true patriot.We should all hold the IRS to the standard of the law.

posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:06 PM
ok, I watched the interview.
At first it looked like some hack basement production because there was nothing to the raid, it was text book and no visable violations. But the interviewer made it seem like it was some Basra offensive we were about to watch.

But the case is amazing from what they said. I mean talk about your Don Quiote. This dude, (the defendant) is taking on a huge huge issue.

This should be on main stream really should.

I'm behind this guy 100% If I were done with law school and a member of the Nevada BAR I would really want to get in on this.

Hey!!!! if they need a summer intern to volunteer tell your friend to tell his uncle's attorney, I'm available and would love the opportunity to help.

posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:24 PM
reply to post by Res Ipsa

I think they only showed parts of the video.The lawer said that the video had proof that some of the agents lied under oath.I would think they had to hold back for legal reasons.

+8 more 
posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:38 PM
Here's the thing...

The IRS wants to collect income tax based on the presumption that employees will be paid with dollars, specifically Federal Reserve Notes or checks based on them.

But there's a problem here. The face value of an old silver dollar coin, which is still considered legal tender, is $1.00. But the value of the silver in it is worth much more.

So this employer had his employees agree to be paid with these silver dollars, which they would sell at the price of the metal in them. But for purposes of taxation, they were basing their calculations on the face value of the coins.

The problem is not what was done here.

What this issue is really about is that the currency we are FORCED to use by the Federal Reserve monopoly has lost a tremendous amount of value compared to the value of hard money like gold or silver. All because of destructive monetary policy of the Fed. NOT OUR FAULT.

So this guy exercised an option to pay his employees in something valued more than the fiat currency, yet the thing he paid with ALSO happens to be considered legal tender under the law.

So how much did his employees get paid? The dollar value? Or the silver value?

If our government doesn't like a silver dollar being worth more than a paper dollar, THEN THEY CAN GET SMART ABOUT THEIR MONETARY POLICY AND PUT AN END TO THE FALLING VALUE OF THE DOLLAR.

What else this does is prove the fact that a fiat paper currency is unstable and easily destroyed. If you run the printing presses too much, the currency sinks.

YOU CAN'T PRINT GOLD OR SILVER. This is why its value is so stable relative to paper currency... there is what there is and that's all that there is. If you want more, you're going to have to get it the hard way. Most importantly, if you've spent it all, YOU REALLY ARE BROKE. Unlike our government today, which always seems to be able to come up with the cash for anything it wants. (Ever wonder how they always did that?)

This is why bankers have always loved fiat currencies. It allowed them to partner up with governments, create money, spend it, and get something for nothing. Why do you think bankers are so wealthy? They've stolen the publics wealth with money that is basically counterfeit.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by ianr5741]

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 03:26 AM
reply to post by SystemiK

Thanks for sharing that story. Robert Kahre & his family will be avenged by those, who love liberty & justice for all [not taxes for all

The "federal" reserve bank & their "Internal Revenue Service" has no authority over us. They're armed & dangerous, but they can't defeat Robert Kahre & the other people, who gladly refuse to be victims of the Bauer/Rothschild family: owners of the bank, which sent its blood-thirsty troops over to Robert Kahre's home & business.

[edit on 11-4-2008 by ChadOnLife]

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:44 AM
well either way its a win win, if they say that the currency is worth the amount of its metal content than hell, im paying people in copper pennies and nickels when the nickel price rises once again. Cause right now pennies from 1982 and earlier are solid copper and are worth 2.6 cents in the silver value. haha. and theres A LOT still in circulation, and nickels are worth about 7 cents in metal value. The treasury is trying quickly to change the content of the coins to cheaper metals like...steel. Maybe there trying to do this before there is a decision being made about this case. cause maybe they will decide that only coins currently in production are considered coins in the general circulation. cause they will be shooting themselves in the foot here if they say that its the metal value of the coins that should have been counted because then people can just go to the bank and get thousands of dollars in pennies and well. cut their expenditures down to only 40%. hell id love to pay my next taxes in pennies and say im paying with the metal value content and save a ton of there is a problem with this. this case is threatening a HUGE delema for the treasury and the IRS right now with the craziness in metal prices right now.

look at

it has all the coins made by th government present and past and their current metal values.

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:14 AM

Starred and Flagged. Faith being restored in America.

That video shocked me. I didn't know that the money being collected by the IRS was not being used for USA purposes, but for the World Bank and the IMF.

And I didn't know that the IRS worked for the World Bank and the IMF.

Great post.

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:30 AM
Is it possible that, by acknowledging this case, the American Administration may have to acknowledge that it too.. trades in precious metals?

Just a thought



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 09:08 AM
Man, are we limited to the amounts of stars we can give a day?? Everyone is making so many good points in this thread, and I really hope that the IRS is put into its place!!!

Which is NOT as our owners. Not as our keepers, or masters.

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 01:33 PM
Star & flag for the power to common people. I so wish Ron Paul & Jesse Ventura were our next president and vice president. Show us the law for income tax, because a court of law must argue the law before enforcing it. No law, than no argument substantiating tax enforcement.

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:37 PM
We all know what happens to threats to the IRS and Fed...

This is landmark case, lets hope it does not get swept under the rug.

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 03:23 PM
Awesome post - thanks for bringing it to our attention.

I have to hand it to the guy, it is a brilliant move paying with coin. While we all cant do that, it certainly has brought attention to this matter.

Since the MSM is afraid to report this, as I've never seen it up until today, its important to tell your friends about this and maybe spread it to other sites. No doubt the Internet will be the next target by the World Criminals. The deals with the telcos going on now are the first step.

As far as the video goes. While it was not very spectacular as we're so use to seeing violence and abuse on TV, remember there was no sound and ask yourself why do they need Armored Personal Carriers as if they're going to be shot at? Why did they need to run over & destroy the company gate when all they had to do is step out & slide it open? Would the extra 10 seconds have made a big difference? Why did they need to point guns?

Knock on the door & work out differences in a civilized matter. Break down the door and you begin a war before even speaking. If they consider it a war maybe the rest of us should consider it one too.

If you're a LEO I think you need to ask yourself are you there to protect the people or are you willing to work and do dirty deeds for the Evil World Criminals like the cops shown in this footage.

In my book this man's a hero and the IRS are criminals. Power to the people.

[edit on 11-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:21 PM
awesome thread! thanks for sharing! I truly hope people can wake up to this fallacy that is the IRS and the Federal Reserve.

Can anyone point to one positive or constructive thing either of these organizations has accomplished since there conception?

If anything ever needs to be done (revolutionary speaking) it is to take these privatized centralized banking systems and flush them down the toilet...

by consent or conquest

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:33 PM
Here is an interesting article which addresses some of the complexities arising from this case.


Indeed, Publication 17, in the section, Miscellaneous Deductions, does address gold coins, usually in the context of holding them as collectables and investments. For example, a rare, non-circulating gold coin would be considered a capital asset, similar to gems, jewelry, stamps, antique household furnishing, and stocks and bonds. These types of items are defined by the IRS as investment property, and investment property is considered a capital asset.

However, in the scenario of being paid for services rendered, the handyman was not holding the American Gold Eagle as an investment – the handyman was holding it as legal tender in exchange for labor.

The American Gold Eagle is legal tender just like a quarter, dime, nickel, or penny. The 1-oz Gold Eagle has a face value of $50. The ½-oz Gold Eagle has a face value of $25. Minted at West Point, NY, also available is a ¼-oz Gold Eagle with a face value of $15 and a 1/10-oz Gold Eagle with a face value of $5. The U.S. Government introduced the American Gold Eagle in 1986. The 1-oz American Gold Eagle contains exactly 1-oz of 22-karat gold.

Can the IRS have it both ways? Can the IRS claim that taxpayers must pay face value on certain legal tender and market value on others. When questioned about a more specific rule that directly addressed this type of tax question, Knierim admitted that no rule existed.

The Muckraker Report asked Knierim what the market value of a $50 bill was in today’s market. He could not say. When confronted with the fact that the cost for the materials used to produce a $50 bill amounted to approximately 6 cents, Knierim conceded the point while insisting that for tax purposes, circulating gold coins fall under a different category. The Muckraker Report asked, “A category in which there is not a specific rule or law that defines the category?” Knierim answered, “yes”.

Also, my friend mentioned this thread to her uncle and she said he was VERY grateful for all of your interest and support. I'd love to see him posting here, from what I understand of his views, he would fit in well with this community.

posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 10:43 PM

Originally posted by WorldShadow
Star & flag for the power to common people. I so wish Ron Paul & Jesse Ventura were our next president and vice president. Show us the law for income tax, because a court of law must argue the law before enforcing it. No law, than no argument substantiating tax enforcement.

The Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Starred and flagged by the way.

posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 05:17 AM
i think everyone on this thread has missed the big one. if they want to tax this guy on the real value of a silver dollar,then why cant we claim the real value of a federal reserve note? ( about 4 cents) doesnt it work both ways? how do you prosecute both?
you wanna say that a silver dollar is woth more than a dollar ,then you have to admit that the federal reserve note dollar is not worth a dollar. this is because the dollar is specifically 27.07 grams of .903 pure silver.
this was the first sd minted by the us.
so,if they're going to get this guy for the value of silver,then we should be be able to claim 100,000 as 4000.
and dont get me started on the legality of the irs
does everyone know that every cent of your income tax goes to the federal reserve to pay intrest that we owe because we have no american currency?? hence the national debt.
also the fed produces money out of thin air. but here's the problem.
the fed only creates money to lend. so lets put this in a very easy to understand context. say i am the fed,and i create $1o dollars @ 2%. ths means you now owe me $12. only problem is that as the fed .i only created $10. where does the intrest come from? the fed is the only creator of currency,and they loan every cent of that fiat currency. the dog is now catching its own tail,because the bad loans in the mortgage sector stopped coming in .not to mention the intrest .
this put the banks in a real dilema
this is why the intrest rate at the discount window(where the banks borrow) went down to 2.25% and home loans went up. it was a scheme to up the intrest at your expense to take the banks out of trouble.
in other words , you're footing the bill for big cusinesses fouo up agin.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 12-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

new topics

top topics

<<   2  3 >>

log in