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Foiled Terrorist Plot or Communist Propoganda?

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posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
It seems there is some evidence concerning the British aircraft plot www.csmonitor.com...



Now you call that evidence??????.

Chinese police show the confiscated material - You say its not evidence

British police do not show anything except statements - You then claim that is evidence

Oh the irony of that statement, which just shows how unbelievably biased you are on the issue. What is the difference between "internal" taxes and "external" duties




Have the Chinese authorities released any further evidence of the March 2nd plot? www.time.com...


Why would they need to.

Its accepted that 4 people were taken off a plane
Its accepted that a women was carrying canisters full of gasoline with the purpose of setting it alight which is an act of terrorism under any language


The debate that is ongoing is whether it has links to Xinjiang terrorist




posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 03:31 AM
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Nice to see some action around here. I'll follow up soon.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by cognoscente]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


Your numerous misconceptions of how the western and democratic nations operate is what leads me to believe you are not an Australian citizen.

You do not understand how people with a free flow of information demand evidence, and when a big case in any democratic society comes along it is gone over by investigators, prosecutors, defense attorneys reporters and then it ends up in the minds of free thinkers to come to their conclusions.

American citizens have discovered the illegal activities of our own leaders because of the efforts of those listed above and we then take the steps to remedy injustice.

You see reporters as evil because they expose the underbelly of china and you would prefer to live under the fairytales of your own media...it's just so much easier than having to sift through the clues and evidence to find the truth. We free thinkers prefer to look at the ugly things because the truth matters more to us.



[edit on 12-4-2008 by Witness2008]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


I'm curious as to how anyone could get past airport security in china and be able to board a plane with canisters of gasoline. Even before 9-11 that would have still been impossible to do in most countries.



[edit on 12-4-2008 by Witness2008]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
Your numerous misconceptions of how the western and democratic nations operate is what leads me to believe you are not an Australian citizen.



Is this just going to be just attacking my character?

Such as?.

I have absolutely no misconceptions about what freedom represents to me. Its freedom to debate and its freedom to form a opinion which you dont seem to understand. Once someone who does not agree with "your accepted view on the world" you label him as a "agent" because you cant accept someone else has a different opinion than yourself. Why should I accept Tibetan information without question when it doesn't stack up with the history of Tibet? Because Hollywood tells me?. Because you do?.

You do not even no what evidence entails and use double standards to represent it. You will believe full well only British statements say but not pictures and information released by the Chinese


ends up in the minds of free thinkers to come to their conclusions.


What are you suggesting by that?. That the western is somehow more intelligent to come to a better conclusion?. That didn't stop Bushes invasion of Iraq even through the evidence of going to war was flimsy at best

You have so many misconceptions about people living in China and how they live. You come to conclusions without even the slightest knowledge beyond what CNN tells you about China. But the average American does not know much about what lies beyond their immediate borders.



You see reporters as evil because they expose the underbelly of china and you would prefer to live under the fairytales of your own media.


This is all you can come up with?. Attacking me for being a supposed "agent" for the PRC?

My media is the world media. I make my opinions based on the information released by either side. You cannot even accept that the Xinjiang extremists actually launched terrorist attacks in China and claimed that the information your read does not suggest any attacks. I quoted you source which specially outlined what attacks occurred

I said of ALL countries. Reporters are not dedicated to the truth, they are dedicated to the story. What sells more is what they are after. Even when they report wrong information they rarely acknowledged that they did which is even more repulsive.


than having to sift through the clues and evidence to find the truth. We free thinkers prefer to look at the ugly things because the truth matters more to us.


And this is the person who quotes Free-Tibet and their grossly inaccurate information?

You proclaim yourself to be "free-thinking" but you are easily draw in to speculation and once someone ask you to back those sources up with facts you are dumbfounded and end up claiming that you somehow are "free-thinking"



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
I'm curious as to how anyone could get past airport security in china and be able to board a plane with canisters of gasoline. Even before 9-11 that would have still been impossible to do in most countries.


No, not really.

Theres a show in Australia called border security which shows the inside workings of customs. You cant believe what things they catch people having and the things they don't at the entry point overseas. This is for the tight international flights where there are bag checks and numerous X-ray machines.

Regional flights are a different matter, because it is flights between the same country and the security is lapse and not a lot of security checks happen.

Brining in gasoline in plastic bottles is extremely hard to detect because the X-ray machines they use will have a hard time differentiating between items such as that. Not to mention the fact that customs regulations aren't as strict as Australia. I was allowed on board with a lighter with fuel inside at the Hong Kong terminal



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


Perhaps you would like to point out the post that I referred to you as an agent. You missed the point of my post. Evidence in the west is scrutinized. When on those occassions such as an illegal war.... well we know now and once this bunch of criminals are out of office ( given some of the investigations going on now) there will be hell to pay for some.

Just what other components were found with the gasoline? And just how much gasoline was there? I would think that in order to blow up a plane there would have to be a considerable amount. Why was the flight not held over for a more complete investigation? Will other witnesses be allowed to speak on the matter?




posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
Evidence in the west is scrutinized. When on those occassions such as an illegal war


Unless Bush is impeached I don't want to hear about how fair the legal system is or how much scrutiny the government gets. The government might have these "checks and balances" but one word of "terrorist" or "bin laden" can make any law pass in the US. The Patriot Act, the Smith Act with the Red scare and McCarthyism all got passed because the American government used fear to get what they want and who ever says anything against it would most likely be hanged by the media and possibly lose more than his paper pushing job

And to answer your statement about accusing me of being a agent, I am referring to this statement "what leads me to believe you are not an Australian citizen". If im not a Australian citizen what am I, or did you forget those other threads where you did accuse me of being a agent


I would think that in order to blow up a plane there would have to be a considerable amount.


Does petrol explode?. I would imagine starting a fire would cause the plane to crash. Those synthetic blankets and seats would catch fire easily I would imagine. Maybe some in the electrical system would cause the plane to lose power owing to its FBW systems de-powering



Why was the flight not held over for a more complete investigation? Will other witnesses be allowed to speak on the matter?


I have no idea. Maybe the assement was done in the 4 hours or so the plane was at the airport or that the incident was isolated to a specific location. China has not experienced a 9/11 attack or a large scale attack and might not have the procedures in place on a regional flight in the outer regions of China. Many countries are yet to apply laws to combat terrorism unlike the west which you are referring to.

The western media has the flight number so they can do as they please to find out the "truth"



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


There are worse things than impeachment in the U.S, and I have the freedom to voice my opinions in the U.S and push my represetatives to investigate what lies were perputrated on the American an Iraqi people. I do not see those freedoms in China.

Questioning your citizenship was by no means calling you an agent. You mistated or lied about living in China or living in Australia. It was brought back to my mind with one of your last posts.

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am. As far as my sources of information they are wide spread, I have shown that through all of the threads we have met up on. And when it comes to evidence that is convincing from out of Tibet I think photos, film footage, international investigations and first hand testimony is pretty strong. Compare some of the evidence that has been supplied throughout these threads and compare it to the March 7 terrorist plot.




posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
You mistated or lied about living in China or living in Australia.


Your lieing right now.

I NEVER once said I was living in China and you did some selective reading. eg

"This is not a car"

You read it as "a car" hence its your problem because you did not read the paragraph but the highlighted individual wording. Dont make openly wrong statements with the intention of somehow taken the blame of the statement you make attacking my character. In the other thread I had to already explain it to you and you still insist with the same incorrect conclusion you made

As I mentioned before your argument revolves around the fact that you are able to debate issues in the west while you cant in China. You come to the conclusion that the information you read is correct because you live in the west which does not stack up with the fact that everyone has a opinion not necessary a "correct" opinion on the issue



As far as my sources of information they are wide spread, I have shown that through all of the threads we have met up on.


Your sources are not widespread. You either quote Tibetans or articles which quote Tibetans. All you have done is link to western news organisations like the CNN or "Huffingtonpost" or you have posted youtube videos created by the Tibetan independence movement

Nothing you have posted is verified information, even your sources get ridiculously closed minded and use obviously false information. Epoochtimes.com is a site you quoted and posted faked information in the form of "supposed" Chinese confessions and have a tendency to post rumors as the truth. Why do you think even CNN did not use their information when their was a "Chinese spy crisis", because western news organizations even at their low level of development for mass media knows better than that

Please answer my post instead of trying to divert the subject based on events which never happened. Answer my point about

"Unless Bush is impeached I don't want to hear about how fair the legal system is or how much scrutiny the government gets. The government might have these "checks and balances" but one word of "terrorist" or "bin laden" can make any law pass in the US. The Patriot Act, the Smith Act with the Red scare and McCarthyism all got passed because the American government used fear to get what they want and who ever says anything against it would most likely be hanged by the media and possibly lose more than his paper pushing job" because you obviously keep pushing the point about a open society yet you fail to understand the abuses of power and try to bring up the point that the west is somehow infallible when it comes to their "checks and balances"



And when it comes to evidence that is convincing from out of Tibet I think photos, film footage, international investigations and first hand testimony is pretty strong.


Photos?

You mean those photos of a movie set that Tibetans claimed to be PAP soldiers orangisation the riots of March 14. And you say that the pictures China released arent "evidence yet you claim the Tibetans photos they release are some indicative of evidence.

The Photos of the Tibetan Riots were taken by freelance photographers and the Tibetans called them government spies

international investigations?

I thought investigations dont happen in China...


And first hand testimony...well anyone can tell I lie and the Tibetans have proven themselves to be more than adequate at telling and making them up. The 1.2million deaths they always propgate is not accepted beyond sites you quote like "free-Tibet" because the figures dont stack up. 1.2million people died out of a population of 1.2million?, come on you'd think people dont even understand basic maths

You seem to have a extreme prejudice towards the reading of information. You quote Tibetan sources on deaths WHICH HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SUBSTANCE yet the Chinese authorities offer pictures and evidence and yet you claim it is somehow "not" evidence.




[edit on 12-4-2008 by chinawhite]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
Compare some of the evidence that has been supplied throughout these threads and compare it to the March 7 terrorist plot.


Or how about the comparison we have already done with the London Terror plots and their lack of information they released?

Oh let me see.

Chinese release pictures of confiscated material and name people involved.

British police release no material, no names. Arrested innocent civilians, linked directly to al-Qaeda by the media without ANY evidence, it might not even be muslim at that stage but it was reported to be al-Qaeda "backed" Muslim extremist. Nothing was done to clear their name or correct their inaccuracies in this apparently "free-thinking" society. Yes, more double standards from yourself


A former British ambassador warned the public Friday to be skeptical about the UK's latest terror alert and to be wary of politicians who seek to benefit from the alarm.

Britain mounted its biggest counter-terrorism operation on August 10 after police said that they had disrupted an alleged plot to carry out simultaneous mid-air explosions on up to 10 flights from the UK to the US.

"For there to be no clear evidence yet on something that was `imminent' and would bring `mass murder on an unbelievable scale' is, to say the least, peculiar," said Craig Murray.

He said that he had the highest security clearance, done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, been inside the government's spin machine and was "very skeptical about the story that has been spun."
Police are continuing to question 23 suspects after releasing two others previously detained without charge.
Searches were also being carried out at residential homes and business premises, without any information being released except finding a suitcase in a woods.

www.irna.ir...


Why dont we compare it to the evidence which precipitated the invasion of Iraq. You didn't even try to deny that one and the flimsy excuses the US used


Stacks very fairly



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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this whole event can only make we chinese people stronger and more united with the government against west countries.that will be a himalaya blunder to try to insult and humiliate one fifth of the whole humanity.never before have i got this feeling that the whole nation now is so determined,so united.thanks for the western media



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


I guess I should post the pages here so others can make up their own minds about how truthful you have been. On this page third post you stated you live in China www.abovetopsecret.com... but on this page 14th post down www.abovetopsecret.com... you state that your passport describes you as an Australian and you live in Australia.

I am not impressed with your ranting considering the credibility issue you have in my mind. I could care less what you think of my sources and their credibility. And I'll talk about the Bush administration anytime I please.



[edit on 12-4-2008 by Witness2008]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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Dodging the harder questions and attacking the man?


Originally posted by Witness2008
On this page third post you stated you live in China






Maybe you shouldn't quote people when it was not directed to you. I know HowlrunnerIV from other threads and he knows I'm Australian and knows I live in Australia. The reply was FOR HIS EYES ONLY. That sentence was for him because he knows what I was talking about. You obviously do not understand my meaning which I have explained over and over again

Quote from another thread I ALREADY ANSWERED YOU IN
"I said "the place I live in China" which means the place I hail from, originate, lived, once came from, resided. The post was in reply to someone and he understood my meaning. It doesn't mean I live in China."


eg. "the place I live in China"

This sentence is talking about China as a foreign place and as a past context. It does not mean I am currently living there

Its like me saying as a tourist "The place I live in Australia has this nice hill" which does not mean I am claiming to live in Australia at that point because I'm refering to it as a past-context


BTW: I said I live in Australia FIRST and then you got confused with my second sentence because of your reading comprehension



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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i m in china,capital city beijing,i certainly can say my opinions represent the overriding majority of 1.3 billion chinese people



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
I could care less what you think of my sources and their credibility.


Deflecting criticism?.

Your source has no basis of truth and because you are unable to assert the facts they claim you try to dodge the accusations as if they dont exist. You just hope by posting them that people wont question its credibility and it will all be fine. But when you come across free-thinkers like myself you have a major problem with using them as proper evidence. You then resort to the usual tricks of questions the persons character and try take the moral high ground while dismissing the actions of your own countries human rights violations



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


This is a public forum and posting for the eyes of only one individual...well is a bit strange. My comprehension is just fine. You used present tense in both posts. The personal attacks on me show a certain amount of desperation on your part.




posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
This is a public forum and posting for the eyes of only one individual...well is a bit strange.


Gee.....

For his eyes only was meant as a metaphor for a reply directly for him to read and its contents not directed for the forum population. Eg I posted it specifically for him to read in reply to his question. I did not post it as a discussion topic for forum members to dissect. Maybe I will explain everything VERY carefully to you since your comprehension is lacking when it comes to paragraph answers



You used present tense in both posts.


Past tense. I used the sentence to describe a prior incident of land ownership in China not to state where I live. And I reiterate again that it was to someone which I already knew and who knew me



The personal attacks on me show a certain amount of desperation on your part.


If you desperate enough to use them at the being of the discussion in reference to my location. Calling me a liar is a outright insult which you have somehow used to play the victim to.

But the discussion has been brought off course because you are unable to debate the issue and concentrate on the poster instead of the topic at hand. The fact that you are unable to establish creditability for your stance highlights the lack of argument you are able to present



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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There is another raid that happened in Xinjiang on January 27th. The AFP article has eyewitness accounts of the raid and those accounts do not backup the claims of the Chinese authorities. Even to this day little is known of the plot to blow up a plane in March that had come from Xinjiang.

afp.google.com...

I appreciated the quote of one of the witnesses at the end of the article when she asks "It's what the government says, but does that make it true?"




posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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even american government puts that org on terrorist list,that's tons of evidence to show their true nature,i really hope you can read chinese,lol



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