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9/11 forum and the 911 pound Gorilla

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posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


I think we need to find a few people not affiliated with anyone.. just a couple of morons on ATS maybe who have background in certain fields.

Let them research and see what they come up with.. Since this will be the only independent investigation we will ever see.. I think it will be better than nothing..


(moron in this case means a person who joined ats and has no real backing by anyone.

EXP: Griiff, he is an engineer of sorts
and Damocles who has explosives background.)

I only named them 2 cause i know who they are, they do not say for sure they would be good it was however an example of my definition of moron.


Also Not all 9/11 truthers care who and what is looking at them. Some of us want to have the actual truth come out about what happened that day. We can give a crap less who wants what out of this.. we want the truth... plain and simple..

[edit on 4/11/2008 by ThichHeaded]




posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 



Civility and decorum apparently do not matter when talking about this conspiracy as most people are typically on one side or the other of this particular issue...
...The 911 madness has not ended after the crackdown


I couldn't agree with you more.

Probably the main reason why I stayed out of that particular forum altogether.

I've been watching/reading certain threads and trying to digest plausible aspects of that forum. When it seemed that I might have anything worth rendering, I was just as quick to YANK back my typing fingers; for fear they might get chewed off. I just shook my head, and walked away.

Respectively,

~Ducky~



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Here is the problem:

your whole post illustrates the problem. it wasnt directed at me specifically but im no less offended by it honestly.


Those of us who know that the official story is hogwash fully comprehend the massive amount of proof that proves beyond a doubt that it was an inside job.

if an example was to be given why the 911 forums have become a battleground and a breeding place for ignorance, this one statement would be it. admittedly it goes both ways, that statement could have come from an OCT believer and been just as petty for it.


It seems insulting to the intelligence to read the replies and nonsense that the official story people spew forth. The most far out and outlandish reason are accepted by them as if they were established facts.

like space lasers, mini nukes, live feeds edited on the fly and morphed phone calls? oh wait...


Lack of evidence is seen as no issue at all!!

again, works both ways. theres no evidence for MOST of the conspiracy theories out there and in most cases it appears that in the absense of an explaination for an event that any answer will do and the evidence is hammered into place to support it. of course thats not to say that theres much or any evidence for the official story but it does sound a bit hypocritcal of you to say that its only the OCT crowd guilty of this when you yourself are illustrating most of the points that this thread was bringing up.


It seems that only two reasons could explain anyone believing the official lie: Chronic and deep seated denial, or some partisan purpose that supports the perps actions.

well three reasons actualy. the third being that there is no actual proof of any of the conspiracy theories so when given a choice between a weak theory or a sci fi theory some of us go with the weak one.


No one could actually believe that a jet liner impacted the Pentagon; why, there are not enough parts there for a Cessna!!

and yet the damage on the scene is inconsistant with anything but something big and fast crashing into it. that doesnt mean it was a 757 but its a much better theory than a missle to those of us that know what it should look like had it been something carrying explosives.


That is precisely what we are facing here. People who are uneducated about the evidence

so, would that be comparable to people who've never set off anything bigger than fireworks on the 4th of july proclaiming that its "obvious" it was a CD? or a missile at the pentagon?


...thats easy, as soon as they get educated they are on our side...

only if they are looking for an excuse to "fight the power"


or, people who know the evidence but cannot, or will not, accept reality for other reasons.

reality it would seem is a matter of perspective.


Some get paid by intel agencies to debunk this..as long as silly excuses can muddy the water for those who know little of the facts they win the game long term. Doubt placed, even dishonestly, is effective as hell, and they know it.

then if you would plz, contact the GAO and tell them that my checks arent arriving...ever. i mean if im supposed to be getting paid, i could sure use the money. but seriously, name ONE person youve got good reason to think is actually paid to try to disrupt your theories


How many ' inexplicable anomalies ' does it take to make someone stop and ponder? A hundred? A thousand? There are more than that with these events but as the media is controlled and complicit the average Joe has no idea.

well isnt an anomaly something that is unexplained to start with? but past that for me it only took a few to start questioning the official story. i know there are things that they arent telling us either due to complicity or as a massive CYA operation. (thats c Y a not c I a. cover your anus)

but, if someone put me on the spot and said "one chance. pick a side" id have to go with the official story for the simple reason that the truth movment doesnt have ONE theory other than "the gubmint did it" all the rest is people lookig at these anomalies and filling in the blanks with whatever comes to their mind at 4:25 and their mind is "open"

i mean ive yet to see a conspiracy theory, im sorry, a version of the truth, that makes ANY sense and holds up to ANY amount of scrutiny.


But those who know what is truth are not very amused by outrageous answer to critical questions, and that is all I have ever seen come from their camp.

like when asked what type of explosive could produce the effects we saw while ignoring all of the established data on HE they answer "oh, im sure its some super secret stuff only the government knows about but its so top secret that we dont know what it can do...but THEY have it!"

and boom, just like that we're back to speculation. real productive.


The facts are in; no plant at the Pentagon. First word from the first reporter: No sign of a plane anywhere here. Last word is still the same.

except all of those people who say they saw a plane right? but since they couldnt identify it as a 757 they dont count? lol man i dont know 10 people right now that could tell the diff between a 757, 767, or a dc10 right now, particularly while its in flight.

now, dont get me wrong, i respect your conviction and i support your right to have any opinion you want. but when you post like this and imply that those of us who dont toe the line to your version of the truth are stupid or paid off, i take that personally and its insulting.

and people wonder why the 911 forums are a bloodbath and why some of us, who have real actual information we could share, simply dont care to participate as much anymore.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Point made - see ya folks! Yet another thread where the vitriol outweighs the argument.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


for my part i apologize. i probably shouldnt have replied but somethigns its just hard to let slide.

ill behave if everyone else will lol



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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We need more threads like these;

9/11:A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

This members independent research, not biased to any group, laid out research and evidence why a plane did hit the Pentagon. The thread has become one of, if not the, greatest thread ever posted on ATS.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by ThichHeaded

EXP: Griiff, hey is an engineer of sorts
and Damocles who has explosives background.)



Heya Thich - I, as well, am an engineer. I have recently become a signator with ae911truth.org on their petition for a new 911 investigation. This petition is being signed by architects and engineers. You can go here and see how many professionals have signed the petition so far.

www.ae911truth.org...



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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Ya I know Val, I was just giving an example.

I picked griff cause he is the 1st one that came to my mind.. I hold you, Bsbray, and Griff in high regards...

But i think we should all get together and do alot of research and put it all in 1 spot..

anyway sorry about making you feel left out...

[edit on 4/11/2008 by ThichHeaded]



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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Skyfloating,

I can see why a debate would be helpful to understand what happened, but it still won't reveal a small percentage of the truth.

The 911 forum is a great place to throw theories and ideas around, but for the most part its become a sniping ground for those caught in the middle. People honestly seeking the truth on either side are immediately brandished as a "disinfo agent" or "paranoid conspiracy theorist."

If we really want to find out the truth, a debate is not the way to go about it, in my opinion of course.

While a debate would be great to help people further solidify their own ideas on the subject matter and be interesting to read, it won't really do a whole lot.

While I may be a "conspiracy-activist" as you coined it, I am still in search of the truth. That is really all that matters to me. If that includes a conspiracy, then so be it.

I haven't believed what the government has told me (or liked it) for a long long time, but that doesn't mean I think they're all responsible for the 911 attacks.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


I really enjoyed reading this post, as well as the one in RATS. You bring up great points Bill. Thank you for sharing your incite.

I want to comment in particular upon this statement though:



The number one problem with discovering "9/11 Truth" is "9/11 Truthers."

--- and ---

"9/11 Truthers" are not "conspiracy theorists."



I happen to agree wholeheartedly with this statement. It is rather unfortunate, but true. I guess I don't really consider myself a "truther" in the sense that I don't follow a particularly dogmatic view of what happened. My opinions can be changed, but I do believe in all honesty, after years of research mind you, that what the government (and media) told us to be the official story was not how it happened. That does not mean everyone who believes the official story is an idiot or ignorant. It just means they don't believe the conspiracy theories. Some of the conspiracies are way way out there, and to read just one of them may turn some people off to the idea of a conspiracy at all.

I am interested in some cold hard facts. Not sensational reporting, not dodgy connections, but links that would put certain people behind bars if a lawyer took the case up. In another life, I would be a lawyer, but I don't have the kind of time and motivation at this point. With that being said, this is a subject that I feel is one of the more important subjects of this entire era.

Whether or not terrorists hijacked 4 planes on 911 and flew them into 3 buildings is irrelevant at this point. I am not going to argue with someone on this thread what happened because its pretty obvious that planes did hit the buildings and at least partially caused the collapse. While I am interested in that part of the story, the implications of the attack also need to be researched.

As a result of 911, the sovereign nation of Afghanistan was invaded. The Taliban did not pose an immediate threat to our country, yet they were invaded anyway. Al Qaeda was supposedly training terrorists in that country, and that was the excuse we all bought.

Iraq was the next excuse. Supposedly Al Qaeda moved there as well, queue second invasion.

Quite literally, without the 911 attacks, the Afghanistan and Iraq wars would not have happened.

So not only did over 3000 people die on 911, thousands more have died as a result. Does that make any sense to any of you?




Is there any hope of turning the tide?



I would say yes there is hope, but only what we can make of it. If we don't act as a unified community, and instead continue to behave as splinter factions trying to discredit the other side, the truth will never be known.

We have a real chance here to find out what happened. I'm sure almost everyone interested in 9/11 would want to know the facts of that day, no matter how horrifying or eye-opening it may be.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


I didn't mean to get into a political spew from that post. That was not my intention for this thread. If I could edit it now, I would.

I am biased I guess, sue me.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by biggie smalls
 


I didn't mean to get into a political spew from that post. That was not my intention for this thread. If I could edit it now, I would.

I am biased I guess, sue me.


I need your lawyers address!


So what? Anyone claiming freedom from bias is like claiming freedom from sin. It's a goal we strive towards. We have all been free from bias, and often are so for great stretches of time, until we cease to be ignorant. Then - regardless of topic or motivation we innocently 'inherit' bias from our sources of information - some we overcome - some we embrace. We're human. (well..., I could make a case against that - but why bother - it's all semantics anyway.)
- Peace and Honor!



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls
... others try to debunk the counter-stories.


I would be interested to know where the IP's of the official story supporters and anti-debunkers are originating from.

How many Israeli IP's are there and how many Washington D.C., Virgina and Maryland IP's are there?

Likewise what is the percentage of .mil and .gov perusing that forum?



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster
reply to post by biggie smalls
 



Civility and decorum apparently do not matter when talking about this conspiracy as most people are typically on one side or the other of this particular issue...
...The 911 madness has not ended after the crackdown


I couldn't agree with you more.

Probably the main reason why I stayed out of that particular forum altogether.

I've been watching/reading certain threads and trying to digest plausible aspects of that forum. When it seemed that I might have anything worth rendering, I was just as quick to YANK back my typing fingers; for fear they might get chewed off. I just shook my head, and walked away.

Respectively,

~Ducky~






This is just what has happened to me since I became a member a couple weeks ago by mostly two people, more one...To the point where I am ready to cancel my account so they can achieve there silencing goal. I am busy preparing for law school anyway so no sweat off my back.

I just don't get it. People that call out the "oppressive" government, are very oppressive if you voice your opinion. They insult you viscously which makes them look like they have serious mental issues, further damaging any credibility they have.

I stated that I respected others opinions, was not trying to prove anybody wrong, and just had real questions. Most realized this but a select few did not.

For asking questions and voicing a view I have been called a troll, ignorant, a government agent, childish, pathetic, and not intelligent enough to understand facts. Nobody tries to stop the insults or step in so it spirals out of control.



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Comsence2075
 


Sorry you're having such a bad time of it. I wish you wouldn't succumb to their ignorant manners. We need everyone we can get in this debate - all sides MUST be kept honest - that means that what they are doing is dminishing us all.

On the other hand, be diligent with your school work - don't let some creep, or someone in a bad mood get you down. If you must go, come back when you're ready.

We've been somewhat discouraged from 'playing mini-moderator' for reasons I happen to agree with. If you need to, you can always reach out to them - I have found them to be quite mature and adept at helping the ATS community 'cope' with such matters.

[end of patronizing rant]



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by ThichHeaded
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


I think we need to find a few people not affiliated with anyone.. just a couple of morons on ATS maybe who have background in certain field


-----------------
Hey, thats me, that is why I volunteered to be a judge...call me John Q Public. Convince a rational mind of either side with empirical evidence.
(I don't even know who I'm voting for yet because they haven't convinced me of anything yet)



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by Comsence2075
 


Sorry you're having such a bad time of it. I wish you wouldn't succumb to their ignorant manners. We need everyone we can get in this debate - all sides MUST be kept honest - that means that what they are doing is dminishing us all.

On the other hand, be diligent with your school work - don't let some creep, or someone in a bad mood get you down. If you must go, come back when you're ready.

We've been somewhat discouraged from 'playing mini-moderator' for reasons I happen to agree with. If you need to, you can always reach out to them - I have found them to be quite mature and adept at helping the ATS community 'cope' with such matters.

[end of patronizing rant]



Thank you. I will not let it get to me much, I need to enjoy my free time while I still have some and I enjoy the site.

I was more surprised if anything because I imagined this site as a place of free expression without people bashing other people for their beliefs. I guess no matter where you are there will be some. I also realize the mods cannot comb through every word here, but I feel if ATS wants to promote free expression, this kind of behavior should not be tolerated at all.



posted on Apr, 19 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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So...the 911 pound gorilla isn't dead? Are we going to see any progress on it? Its been a few years since the idea was planned, and nothing has happened.

How about that better investigation?



posted on May, 30 2008 @ 09:18 PM
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You guys can and will debate 'til the cows come home, but without any concrete evidence such as the physical (most destroyed) or testimonial (most excluded from the 911 Commission report) then it's all just a circle jerk. Let's be real here - we need a new investigation with amnesty for accomplices and whistleblowers and a resurfacing of the juicy stuff that was suppressed by Zelikow.




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